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Joe Lieberman was an asswipe and has been a thorn since 2000. Hope he really is gone, and doesn't re-appear the way Newt has.
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Nov 28, 2016 20:38
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Trabisnikof posted:Just curious, do you think the Democrats should have run on leaving ISIS and radical Islamic terrorism alone? Or what else do you mean by Obama's continuing wars in the Middle East. Yes, the correct move to do if we want to help the middle east is to put pressure on Saudi Arabia and Israel to stop loving poo poo up so much. This is something the President can and is supposed to do, but the profits are on the other solution unfortunately, which has no end and is just more war for the sake of $. Also to be clear, I don't care what he runs on, however he gets there the important part is making the moral decision when faced with the options, which Obama has failed to do over and over again. Nonsense posted:I point out the party now in power was the root of all this? Dude if you think the root of all this is 9/11 or GWB you're a loving clueless sycophant just repeating whatever he hears. Go read a book.
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Nov 28, 2016 20:39
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If you had invested in private prisons and for-profit universities 3 weeks ago, you would have gotten a 42% return on your investment in 3 weeks. The fastest growth of any stock sectors in such a short period of time since the 1920's.
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Nov 28, 2016 20:39
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like seriously, defending American foreign policy in the 21st century with "well what did you expect, that Obama would campaign on being soft on ISIS?" is the dumbest poo poo I've ever heard
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Nov 28, 2016 20:41
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NewForumSoftware posted:Yes, the correct move to do if we want to help the middle east is to put pressure on Saudi Arabia and Israel to stop loving poo poo up so much. This is something the President can and is supposed to do, but the profits are on the other solution unfortunately, which has no end and is just more war for the sake of $. Guantanamo Bay facility as we know it was established in 2002. I know it's always been our territory you arrogant rear end.
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Nov 28, 2016 20:41
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Nonsense posted:Guantanamo Bay facility as we know it was established in 2002. I know it's always been our territory you arrogant rear end. Do you think Guantanamo bay is the only place we've ever held non-combatant prisoners without giving them a proper trial? "the root of all of this" All of this is not Guantanamo bay also, regardless of any of your stupid apologetics, he could have closed the facility and chose not to because of "political consequences", he's not even running for election again, its a joke
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Nov 28, 2016 20:44
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sit on my Facebook posted:like seriously, defending American foreign policy in the 21st century with "well what did you expect, that Obama would campaign on being soft on ISIS?" is the dumbest poo poo I've ever heard Yeah but the original dumb idea was that if only Obama had stopped the wars....something something something. Shockingly the president, like most Americans, think we should keep bombing ISIS and pals. I'm not defending America's honor, I don't care, I'm pointing out that anti-war ISIS-appeasement is a wrong as gently caress reading of the American people.
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Nov 28, 2016 20:44
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Trabisnikof posted:Yeah but the original dumb idea was that if only Obama had stopped the wars....something something something. Nobody is saying this you dense moron. Why can't you stop arguing with straw men for two pages of this thread?
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Nov 28, 2016 20:45
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NathanScottPhillips posted:Rememeber when Obama had a large D majority in both houses? The senate had a filibuster proof majority for something like 10 working days, between Al Franken's squeaker and Ted Kennedy dying. And that supermajority relied on shits like Lieberman.
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Nov 28, 2016 20:47
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NewForumSoftware posted:also, regardless of any of your stupid apologetics, he could have closed the facility and chose not to because of "political consequences", he's not even running for election again, its a joke How could Obama close the facility when congress has forbidden him from doing so? Walk me through the legal process and final status for detainees. NewForumSoftware posted:Nobody is saying this you dense moron. Why can't you stop arguing with straw men for two pages of this thread? NewForumSoftware posted:It's almost as if "well the other guys were worse" is a really bad excuse for a president re-signing the patriot act and continuing our wars in the middle east. The president is not a powerless figurehead, especially post 2001.
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Nov 28, 2016 20:46
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Mozi posted:I think if you asked Obama if he would like to go back to his first two years and cram in everything possible because he won't be able to do anything in the next 6 he would be amenable to that.
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Nov 28, 2016 20:51
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NathanScottPhillips posted:Everyone is quick to make excuses for Obama because of his resistance in Congress and the Senate, but to me that's another weakness. Bill Clinton was just as hated by the Rs, maybe more, maybe less, but he was able to unite the government to take on his pet projects some of which were extremely liberal like his school and environmental initiatives. lol
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Nov 28, 2016 20:53
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NathanScottPhillips posted:Well, since the #1 predictor for how a politician will use their time in office is to look at the financial donors to their campaign, I think it's safe to say that Obama wouldn't have done all these things if you sent him back in time. Instead he would continue to do what he always did, help the bankers, help oil companies, stall on real liberal ideas, and be completely unable to unite the other branches of government in a common goal. Everyone is quick to make excuses for Obama because of his resistance in Congress and the Senate, but to me that's another weakness. Bill Clinton was just as hated by the Rs, maybe more, maybe less, but he was able to unite the government to take on his pet projects some of which were extremely liberal like his school and environmental initiatives. Lol that you think Oil companies got what they wanted from Obama
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Nov 28, 2016 20:53
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Trabisnikof posted:How could Obama close the facility when congress has forbidden him from doing so? Congress never blocked Obama from closing Guantanamo, they blocked him from transferring the prisoners. Obama could close it today if he wanted to, but it means letting the prisoners go or one of a few countries agreeing to take them all on. Which if you're in favor of those people being behind bars I don't see why it matters whether they're in Guantanamo or elsewhere. If you're on the side of just getting Guantanamo closed, then you can't blame Congress for Obama not doing it.
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Nov 28, 2016 20:55
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NathanScottPhillips posted:Bill Clinton was just as hated by the Rs, maybe more, maybe less, but he was able to unite the government to take on his pet projects some of which were extremely liberal like his school and environmental initiatives. Also, gutted the poo poo out of welfare because Reagan lied about some Chicago woman 10 years previous.
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Nov 28, 2016 20:56
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comingafteryouall posted:People are more concerned about the whole knowing how to win elections part. Perez is cool and good and maybe he can rig up a grassroot driven political machine but Ellison is shown to win in an area where Democrats need to get back on their feet. That's a fair point too. Although I'd say MN's 5th is not the best example of an area that the Dem Party's failings. It's been comfortably Dem since 1963. It boils down to valuing electoral experience vs not having to split time between two jobs. Especially for a party that just took an electoral shellacking. I lean towards Perez over Ellison because you can bring in expertise to a group, but you can't create time out of thin air.
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Nov 28, 2016 20:56
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like wow thats honestly a fresh take, and not one i thought id see on this forum - Obama should have been more like Bill Clinton
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Nov 28, 2016 20:56
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Spacebump posted:Kind of like how he (or his team) might have made up a campaign employee with a fake Facebook account during the election? What was that person even responsible for again? Are you thinking of the phantom speechwriter, when people noticed that Melania's speech at the RNC lifted a bunch from Michelle Obama?
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Nov 28, 2016 20:56
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NathanScottPhillips posted:Trabisnikof posted:How could Obama close the facility when congress has forbidden him from doing so? Presidentially pardon everyone there.
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Nov 28, 2016 20:57
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nessin posted:Congress never blocked Obama from closing Guantanamo, they blocked him from transferring the prisoners. Obama could close it today if he wanted to, but it means letting the prisoners go or one of a few countries agreeing to take them all on. Which if you're in favor of those people being behind bars I don't see why it matters whether they're in Guantanamo or elsewhere. If you're on the side of just getting Guantanamo closed, then you can't blame Congress for Obama not doing it. Woah, that like almost explains Obama's strategy of doing exactly what you want him to do. But it is harder to find countries willing to take every prisoner as you imagine. He's already transferred all but 60ish of the 200+ when he came into office. paranoid randroid posted:like wow thats honestly a fresh take, and not one i thought id see on this forum - Obama should have been more like Bill Clinton Obama never even tried to reform welfare!
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Nov 28, 2016 20:59
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zegermans posted:Also, gutted the poo poo out of welfare because Reagan lied about some Chicago woman 10 years previous. Clinton pushed a pretty good poverty bill before it got hosed up by the 1994 congress. He shouldn't have signed the republican bill though so gently caress him for that.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:00
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NewForumSoftware posted:Presidentially pardon everyone there. They haven't even been convicted or accused of a crime to even pardon, remember? Or have you forgotten so quickly the excesses of Bush II?
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Nov 28, 2016 21:00
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the fact that the Grand Bargain was a love-letter to the GOP which got rejected because it wasnt good enough for them should tell you everything you need to know about the difference between the congressional opposition to Clinton and the congressional opposition to Obama
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Nov 28, 2016 21:01
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Bip Roberts posted:Clinton pushed a pretty good poverty bill before it got hosed up by the 1994 congress. He shouldn't have signed the republican bill though so gently caress him for that. Yeah when I learned that the original bill had a guaranteed employment clause, I had a sad flash of realization of how awesome that America would have been.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:02
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ISIS makes a convenient enemy to fight and lets us ignore the real problem in the Middle East, us.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:03
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NewForumSoftware posted:Presidentially pardon everyone there. I mean I'm all against indefinite detention and poo poo, but... some of the people there ARE awful people who will commit mass murder the instant they have the chance.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:03
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NewForumSoftware posted:Presidentially pardon everyone there. None of them have been convicted of a federal crime. Can't pardon them. nessin posted:Congress never blocked Obama from closing Guantanamo, they blocked him from transferring the prisoners. Obama could close it today if he wanted to, but it means letting the prisoners go or one of a few countries agreeing to take them all on. Which if you're in favor of those people being behind bars I don't see why it matters whether they're in Guantanamo or elsewhere. If you're on the side of just getting Guantanamo closed, then you can't blame Congress for Obama not doing it.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:03
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So Reddit is Claiming the stabber in columbus is Somali. I haven't seen any news sources outside of right wing twitter and fake news sites. Can anyone else confirm?
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Nov 28, 2016 21:04
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kelvron posted:None of them have been convicted of a federal crime. Can't pardon them. Nixon got a blanket pardon. They can be given.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:04
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MSNBC has been saying it too
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Nov 28, 2016 21:05
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Yeah you can definitely pardon people who have not been charged with a crime I don't know why everyone has to pretend like that didn't happenzegermans posted:I mean I'm all against indefinite detention and poo poo, but... some of the people there ARE awful people who will commit mass murder the instant they have the chance. Honestly there are better ways but I don't feel like explaining the legal intricacies to a guy who just posts contrarian idiocy over and over again
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Nov 28, 2016 21:05
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Trabisnikof posted:How could Obama close the facility when congress has forbidden him from doing so? Obama could easily have closed it in 09, but didn't push for it at all. Back then Dems wanted to concentrate their political capital on health care. As for the detainees, there are only about 60 people left in Gitmo right now, and about 30 of them can either get a fair trial because they've been charged, or be freed because they've already been cleared (but State Dept is sitting on it). The last 30 have not been charged with a crime but are not cleared to leave, and they should honestly either be charged or set free. If the administration isn't prepared to charge them, free them. That should not be controversial, since everything else is blatantly unconstitutional. edit: I took too long to reply, kind of.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:06
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Proud Christian Mom posted:ISIS makes a convenient enemy to fight and lets us ignore the real problem in the Middle East, us. If only America would withdraw, then surely the Middle East will calmly resolve itself without any meddling outsider influences. 
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Nov 28, 2016 21:06
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kelvron posted:None of them have been convicted of a federal crime. Can't pardon them. You can pre-emptively pardon people. Nixon was. The only way Obama could close down Guantanamo unilaterally would be to have every prisoner's home country agree to take them back, agree to pay for all transportation costs, and for Obama to pre-emptively pardon everyone. Considering that some of the people in Guantanamo are actually confirmed terrorists, but were unable to be tried because they were tortured and their testimony is inadmissible, it is pretty reasonable to assume that Obama was not going to pardon them and that their home countries would not allow them back, let alone pay for them to come back. Even in Obama's unilateral closing scenario, he isn't actually closing it unilaterally, because he needs the other countries to agree to it. Edit: The other crazy scenario where Obama could unilaterally close Gitmo would be to pardon all of the prisoners, get them all to agree to renounce their previous citizenships, and get Immigration and Customs Enforcement to grant them American Citizenship under the guise of them being stateless actors that require emergency citizenship. Then have them all privately fund their trips out of Cuba to mainland America. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 21:06
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Trabisnikof posted:Lol that you think Oil companies got what they wanted from Obama Fracking is at an all-time high and Obama has issued record permits for fracking in the Gulf of Mexico. BP completely got let off the hook for Deepwater Horizon, effects of which are (of course) still being felt today and the areas affected may never recover. Obama responded to the Deepwater Horizon disaster by vastly expanding Gulf of Mexico offshore oil wells increasing the area by 59 million acres. BLM has enlarged oil and gas drilling by 5.7 million acres of BLM land. Obama's administration worked with the EPA and BLM to decrease turn-around time for drilling permits so they can be issued months sooner than before. Obama completely hosed any public support for the concept of green-energy subsidies by being totally scammed by Solyndra.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:10
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botany posted:Obama could easily have closed it in 09, but didn't push for it at all. Back then Dems wanted to concentrate their political capital on health care. As for the detainees, there are only about 60 people left in Gitmo right now, and about 30 of them can either get a fair trial because they've been charged, or be freed because they've already been cleared (but State Dept is sitting on it). The last 30 have not been charged with a crime but are not cleared to leave, and they should honestly either be charged or set free. If the administration isn't prepared to charge them, free them. That should not be controversial, since everything else is blatantly unconstitutional. I think this actually goes back to fantasy/reality Obama. Fantasy Obama probably could have made it happen. Reality Obama blew his chance when they started negotiations to relocate some detainees but didn't inform the local Republican congressman. It leaked then exploded with even Harry Reid saying to keep them out of the US. Like the Grassley climate deal, Obama's inexperience in Washington hosed him.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:10
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Welp, Trump's new Education Secretary Devos said that they are going to "re-evaluate" Obama-era rules on For-Profit Colleges receiving federal money and student loans. It's unfair for the Obama administration to shut down these schools because it essentially says that people who spent hundreds of thousands of dollars there didn't get anything of value and attaches a stigma to them. This hurts students and For-Profit Education Providers. The government shouldn't be picking winners and losers in the education field.  No words. So they're really thinking of letting these guys go back to taking public money and saddling people with huge student loans for worthless degrees a thing eh? The sad part is that people will sign right back up and we'll be here again in 5 years having the same debate.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:10
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"Leftists" insisting the President should simultaneously rule dictatorially and that they oppose expansion of executive power ought to be a hell of a sight to see, but it's a sad part of the new normal.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:12
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Solyndra didn't scam anyone, they developed and made good product, they just got priced out of the market by Chinese companies intentionally taking massive losses to undercut them.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:12
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NathanScottPhillips posted:Oil and gas production are at an all-time high and grew in record numbers during the last 8 years. That long list of things are mostly not under Obama's control. Obama couldn't have stopped fracing or magically change court rulings. Obama pushed the limit of what regulators can do without a new act of congress. But still, you're missing the big picture if you think Oil people are happy with Obama. They might not hate him as much as Coal people do, but the API et al did not get their way with the Obama administration. If they did, the green completions rule, the CPP and the renewables tax credits wouldn't exist. But keystone would. The only big win under Obama for oil was lifting the ban on oil exports, which was a trade for renewable tax credit extensions.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:16
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