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Gatts posted:What is this discussion about? Why this? Why not Rogue One? Can I discuss the giant fish that we saw in Phantom Menace and their tenuous connections to the Sith and Jedi? You're welcome to discuss anything you want, including your giant fish theory. What's stopping you?
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Nov 28, 2016 21:33
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Gatts posted:What is this discussion about? Why this? Why not Rogue One? Can I discuss the giant fish that we saw in Phantom Menace and their tenuous connections to the Sith and Jedi? You can do anything you set your mind to, buddy. You can even discuss Rogue One.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:35
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In some alternate universe where Chewbacca speaks English with a ridiculously exaggerated Jamaican accent and Jar Jar sounds like Greedo when he talks, do people like him more even with the same lines?
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Nov 28, 2016 21:37
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I wonder if there will be a subplot about getting the trash monster onto the Death Star.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:38
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Schwarzwald posted:You can do anything you set your mind to, buddy. You can even discuss Rogue One. The only limit is yourself http://www.zombo.com/
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Nov 28, 2016 21:38
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RBA Starblade posted:I wonder if there will be a subplot about getting the trash monster onto the Death Star. I can't even tell if you're joking because I would not be surprised in the least to see something like this in Rogue One.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:41
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Basebf555 posted:I can't even tell if you're joking because I would not be surprised in the least to see something like this in Rogue One. Only a little.  At the very least you know you're going to see it.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:44
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I wonder if there will be puppets/muppets in Rogue One.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:50
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RBA Starblade posted:I wonder if there will be a subplot about getting the trash monster onto the Death Star. Hm, I think I might have accidentally created Star Wars/Fantastic Beasts crossover fanfic. 
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Nov 28, 2016 21:52
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It's true, the ability to speak does not make him intelligent.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:54
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Gatts posted:What is this discussion about? Why this? Why not Rogue One? Can I discuss the giant fish that we saw in Phantom Menace and their tenuous connections to the Sith and Jedi? the occupant of that submarine who's from Naboo is the only one of the three who doesn't go on to be shanked by a Sith Apprentice those apprentices serve under a Sith Lord who's from Naboo makes you think
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Nov 28, 2016 21:56
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Has it been established somewhere in the EU that Palpatine is actually from Naboo? I always figured he probably created the Palpatine identity from scratch or stole it from a dead guy.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:02
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homullus posted:Fundamentally, the issue is that fans believe Star Wars movies should be made to please them to the greatest degree possible, and the filmmakers' wishes and vision are subordinate to that (the "movie studio" perspective, really), while George Lucas believed movies should be made according to the filmmaker's wishes and vision, and pleasing the fans is subordinate to that ("film school auteur" perspective). Since he was paying to make all the Star Wars films after the first, he got to decide. I guess I think this is kinda of bullshit. Not totally, but just kind of. Mostly because look, when you're making a product that is something MILLIONS of people not just adore, but devote a large part of their lives to it, not keeping any of the fans in mind is pretty dang dumb. And what I mean by that isn't "Oh well uh, people like uh..Boba Fett, so here's uh...Boba Fett." It's "People fell in love with the great characters, their relationships, and the adventures they had together and we should focus on that aspect. " You can argue that TFA is hack poo poo, or safe, but it did bring back the fundamental thing that people enjoyed about Star Wars. The characters. People loving LOVE Rey and BB8. Rey used to be the hardest Star Wars figure to find once the film came out. Now Rey is everywhere. The lightsabers now have her face on the box instead of Anakin's/Luke's. People are excited to see these characters again, much like how I imagined they were in the 80's. No one was stoked to see more Jar Jar, or kid Anakin. The only character people would've wanted to see more of got cut in half and that was the end of that. quote:To deviate from PG-13 adventure and space battles in any way is a betrayal of what true Star Wars fans thought the series was, and a betrayal of what it's probably going to be from this point forward. I get less excited about Rogue One the more I hear about it. We will be looking backward over Episodes I-VI cinematically for many years to come. I think it's weird that you're criticizing fanboys for being upset when a Star Wars film deviates from a Star Wars film, despite you doing the same thing. Rogue One wasn't going to be anything but an adventure/war movie. It wasn't going to be violent, and super dark. It probably isn't going to be a thoughtful meditation on the struggles of war. It's probably going to be a heist adventure film with a slight edge to it.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:08
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Basebf555 posted:Has it been established somewhere in the EU that Palpatine is actually from Naboo? I always figured he probably created the Palpatine identity from scratch or stole it from a dead guy. I have no idea about EU stuff. Palpatine's a master manipulator with limited precognition, so anything is possible, but we have no reason in the films to suppose he's NOT from Naboo. "Actually being that person" is actually creating an identity from scratch.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:09
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CelticPredator posted:I guess I think this is kinda of bullshit. Not totally, but just kind of. Mostly because look, when you're making a product that is something MILLIONS of people not just adore, but devote a large part of their lives to it, not keeping any of the fans in mind is pretty dang dumb. And what I mean by that isn't "Oh well uh, people like uh..Boba Fett, so here's uh...Boba Fett." It's "People fell in love with the great characters, their relationships, and the adventures they had together and we should focus on that aspect. " You can argue that TFA is hack poo poo, or safe, but it did bring back the fundamental thing that people enjoyed about Star Wars. The characters. People loving LOVE Rey and BB8. Rey used to be the hardest Star Wars figure to find once the film came out. Now Rey is everywhere. The lightsabers now have her face on the box instead of Anakin's/Luke's. People are excited to see these characters again, much like how I imagined they were in the 80's. It comes down to how you see film as an art form, and then even further than that, how you see the role of art in society. Personally I don't think a filmmaker should feel obligated to please anyone except the people who put up the money to make the film, so if its self-financed, that means nobody. Giving people entertainment that allows them to slip effortlessly into their comfort zone has merit, but that doesn't mean every filmmaker has to provide that service. George Lucas chose not too, and I don't begrudge him that, while others obviously do.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:16
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CelticPredator posted:I guess I think this is kinda of bullshit. Not totally, but just kind of. Mostly because look, when you're making a product that is something MILLIONS of people not just adore, but devote a large part of their lives to it, not keeping any of the fans in mind is pretty dang dumb. And what I mean by that isn't "Oh well uh, people like uh..Boba Fett, so here's uh...Boba Fett." It's "People fell in love with the great characters, their relationships, and the adventures they had together and we should focus on that aspect. " You can argue that TFA is hack poo poo, or safe, but it did bring back the fundamental thing that people enjoyed about Star Wars. I'm not really certain what you mean. How does TFA have great characters, relationships and adventures in a manner that in a way that TPM doesn't? Because people like Rey and they don't like Anakin?
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Nov 28, 2016 22:18
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Schwarzwald posted:How does TFA do that in a way that TPM doesn't? Because people like Rey and they don't like Anakin? notice how none of the media nor toys are about the prequels go to target or walmart or toys r us right now and go into the toys section and look for star wars stuff not a SINGLE toy from the prequels in sight. All ep 4-6, 7, rogue one. nobody likes it, nobody wants it and that's reflected in the amount of money they made in the box office and their critical and audience reception.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:19
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It's an art form that is distributed commercially. To completely ignore the audience for it is just kind of dumb. I mean, Harmony Korine or Lars Von Trier never has to think of their fans, but they aren't making a product that millions of people will see. And just to be clear, the key words are 'completely'. As in you don't have to spend every second second guessing if fans will like this. Sometimes you gotta roll with your heart, and that's good.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:20
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Phi230 posted:notice how none of the media nor toys are about the prequels What does that have to do with characters, relationships and adventures, though?
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Nov 28, 2016 22:21
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Schwarzwald posted:What does that have to do with characters, relationships and adventures, though? How does it not have to do with any of that? Look outside yourself.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:23
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Phi230 posted:notice how none of the media nor toys are about the prequels Saw an action figure pack this weekend that was Maul and Obi-Wan. Lego also just released a set featuring Obi-Wan's fighter from RotS.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:25
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CelticPredator posted:It's an art form that is distributed commercially. To completely ignore the audience for it is just kind of dumb. I mean, Harmony Korine or Lars Von Trier never has to think of their fans, but they aren't making a product that millions of people will see. Too many boring mediocre films are extremely popular in their time, and too many great visionary films are completely ignored, only to have their quality rediscovered years later. Making films with the fans in mind is a bad idea, unless the #1 paramount concern is to make as much money as possible. That's perfectly understandable for the usual big-budget project, but Lucas financed the prequels himself and was beholden to no one. The idea that he'd blow that incredibly rare opportunity by overly pandering to the fans would be the dumb thing, not the other way around. Even if you hate the prequels, you had to acknowledge that they're ambitious failures. Whether you think that's better than a boring forgettable success is personal opinion, but I do.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:29
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I don't.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:31
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CelticPredator posted:How does it not have to do with any of that? Look outside yourself. I don't mean to come across as confrontational, but I seriously have no idea what you're talking about. As far as I can tell your arguing that TFA focuses on "great characters, their relationships, and the adventures they had together" in a way that the prequels don't, and your evidence (or Phi230's evidence) is that TFA has more toys on store shelves than the prequels do. I legitimately do not know what point you're trying to make.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:40
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CelticPredator posted:I guess I think this is kinda of bullshit. It's an art form that is distributed commercially. To completely ignore the audience for it is just kind of dumb. Of course, nobody said you should ignore your audience completely, any more than Disney is ignoring all vision from its directors now. George Lucas absolutely did not ignore his audience. When the film he wanted to make conflicted with the film the audience might have spent an extra billion on, he chose to make the film he wanted to make.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:43
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Yeah you pretty much have it there. You're just making it more complicated in your head. Also the only characters I remember my friends and I wanted to see more of died in the prequels so I dunno. I guess Obi Wan was aight. It was all about the villains baby!
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Nov 28, 2016 22:44
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CelticPredator posted:I guess I think this is kinda of bullshit. Not totally, but just kind of. Mostly because look, when you're making a product that is something MILLIONS of people not just adore, but devote a large part of their lives to it, not keeping any of the fans in mind is pretty dang dumb. And what I mean by that isn't "Oh well uh, people like uh..Boba Fett, so here's uh...Boba Fett." It's "People fell in love with the great characters, their relationships, and the adventures they had together and we should focus on that aspect. " You can argue that TFA is hack poo poo, or safe, but it did bring back the fundamental thing that people enjoyed about Star Wars. The characters. People loving LOVE Rey and BB8. Rey used to be the hardest Star Wars figure to find once the film came out. Now Rey is everywhere. The lightsabers now have her face on the box instead of Anakin's/Luke's. People are excited to see these characters again, much like how I imagined they were in the 80's. Also people love the gently caress out of Minions, but I'm not sure that makes them great characters (admittedly, I haven't seen any of those movies, so they might be  ). "The fans" are such a wide-encompassing group that it seems impossible to assign one motivation to all of them at once, and definitely to say something like "people love Star Wars because of its great characters". Many people I'm sure love Star Wars because lightsabers are awesome and they want to be a Jedi. Yoda fighting was a huge crowd-pleaser when AOTC came out, but to hear "the fans" now it ruined him forever. Like, there's millions of Star Wars fans, they don't all like it for the same reasons, and to try to cater to one group or another seems like a losing proposition.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:44
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CelticPredator posted:Yeah you pretty much have it there. You're just making it more complicated in your head. So if the prequels were exactly the same as they are now, but they pushed more merchandise, they'd be better films? Or, conversely, would TFA have been a bad film if it didn't sell as many toys as it did?
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Nov 28, 2016 22:50
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The prequels moved a ton of merch in their day. Their main characters supported a successful television series for six seasons.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:54
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That's another thing, the prequels did sell a ton a merchandise. Of course TFA has more toys in stores compared to the prequels, the prequel films came out over a decade ago. Unless, that is, you count toys of the Clone Wars or Rebels animated television series as part of the prequels. If you do, then yes, there are in fact as many toys from the prequels as from TFA in stores today.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:05
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Lol how loving droolingly stupid do you have to be to bring up merchandise sales and box office to "prove" the prequels weren't popular: "duhhhhhhh the toys aren't in stores after a decade and they only made a billion dollars each after inflation"
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Nov 28, 2016 23:39
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I was trying to make the point that people love Rey and Poe, Finn, and Kylo, that people bought their figures in droves once the film came out, (Finn still stayed a bit on the pegs, but he's not as easy to find as he once was. But to be fair, that is the most boring Star Wars figure of all time and why they didn't give him a lightsaber is beyond me) and pretty much left Phasma, and all the Stormtroopers and villains clogging the pegs. Which was a total shift from the prequels where the hero characters mostly stayed on the pegs, and the villains were the ones that you could never find. I know my friends and I didn't want poo poo to do with the heroes when the films came out. We were all mostly excited about Jango, or Grevious. I like that TFA brought back heroes to root for, is what I'm saying. Maybe you don't personally like them. And that's fine.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:45
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Lord Hydronium posted:Yoda fighting was a huge crowd-pleaser when AOTC came out, but to hear "the fans" now it ruined him forever. That's actually a great example of what I'm talking about when I say that fans(in general, not just Star Wars fans) are fickle and change their minds constantly. When I saw AotC in the theatre, the entire audience erupted when Yoda drew his lightsaber, and the roar was continuous throughout the scene. Nobody said "what was with that flip poo poo Yoda was doing?" as walked to the car, everyone thought the movie was good. A more subtle example is the way Obi Wan kills Darth Maul in TPM. In the first few weeks when everyone still thought the movie was good, nobody had any complaints about it. Then, as popular opinion turned on the movie, all of the sudden you heard about how stupid it was that Darth Maul just stood there and watched Obi Wan slice him in half. Its pretty standard action movie stuff, but once the fans deemed TPM to be "bad", it became fair game to nit pick at any possible loose thread they possibly could.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:50
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I prefer the prequels to the original series. The scale and ambitious mess is something I'll take over a weak sauce sequel.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:54
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Guy A. Person posted:Lol how loving droolingly stupid do you have to be to bring up merchandise sales and box office to "prove" the prequels weren't popular: People rightfully hate the prequels. Eventually you're going to have to accept this and move on with your life. This little crusade some of you are on is an exercise in futility.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:18
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Basebf555 posted:That's actually a great example of what I'm talking about when I say that fans(in general, not just Star Wars fans) are fickle and change their minds constantly. When I saw AotC in the theatre, the entire audience erupted when Yoda drew his lightsaber, and the roar was continuous throughout the scene. Nobody said "what was with that flip poo poo Yoda was doing?" as walked to the car, everyone thought the movie was good. Nah my mother was laughing uproariously in the theater when it happened. Conversely, her opinion on film is so underdeveloped she has difficulty following the plot of children's movies much less what message they may be attempting to convey.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
Where do we see chewie be clumsy? You do this all the time; try to pass off lies as fact.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:34
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rear end Catchcum posted:Where do we see chewie be clumsy? You do this all the time; try to pass off lies as fact. Uh, smg only speaks truthfully and accurately. I know this because smg says so. Repeatedly. In nearly every post.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:38
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rear end Catchcum posted:Where do we see chewie be clumsy? You do this all the time; try to pass off lies as fact. He literally drops, painfully I might add, a pile of tools onto Han in ESB then rewires c3p0 so his head is on backwards
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Nov 29, 2016 00:53
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Y'all people need SMG. Stop hating.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:55
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