loquacius posted:

Fulchrum, your side won the primary, how are you still this mad about it

pathetic little tramp posted:

Is this the thread where we talk about 2018 gubernatorial races, because toot toot get ready to wield the sword of Chiang?

docbeard posted:

I'm fine with all the "she won the popular vote stuff", because it clearly bugs the poo poo out of Trump and I am petty enough to take what victories I can.

Not wild about the occasional "all the rich good parts of the country voted for Hillary" sentiment I've been seeing recently, though, since that's pretty much the attitude that (along with the many other factors, some related to Hillary's campaign, some not) lost us the election.

Thoguh posted:

"Hillary did well in affluent white collar suburbs and thriving new economy centers."

If only the polls required you to show a ticket stub from Hamilton to vote she would have won in a landslide!

Fullhouse posted:

his whole thing is that he's an angrier fishmech, not worth engaging

Venom Snake posted:

Uh, the largest counties =/= the richest ones

Thoguh posted:

"Hillary did well in affluent white collar suburbs and thriving new economy centers."

Venom Snake posted:

Uh, the largest counties =/= the richest ones

Thoguh posted:

Venom Snake posted:

Everyone on the coasts and in cities is a rich white yuppie is just as retarded as everyone in the midwest is a dumb economically anxious hick

bump_fn posted:

https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/803345214727458817

big juicy nectarine posted:

That guy's handsome as gently caress, run him in 2020 after two years as governor. Weirder things have been done.

Also, one thing I have gotten tired of is the characterization of Clinton as "neoliberal" per se. I realize that just means "lovely compromiser," but I thought neoliberalism specifically dealt with trickle down economics, and while Hillary always seemed to short-change any stimulus deals, I don't recall her being for lowering taxes on the rich. Or am I being a dumbass here.

big juicy nectarine posted:

That guy's handsome as gently caress, run him in 2020 after two years as governor. Weirder things have been done.

Also, one thing I have gotten tired of is the characterization of Clinton as "neoliberal" per se. I realize that just means "lovely compromiser," but I thought neoliberalism specifically dealt with trickle down economics, and while Hillary always seemed to short-change any stimulus deals, I don't recall her being for lowering taxes on the rich. Or am I being a dumbass here.

Venom Snake posted:

Your drastically oversimplifying. Poor people exist on the coasts dude.

Venom Snake posted:

Everyone on the coasts and in cities is a rich white yuppie is just as retarded as everyone in the midwest is a dumb economically anxious hick

MaxxBot posted:

https://twitter.com/Khanoisseur/status/803342830160605184

Grondoth posted:

That article specifically calls out manhattan and silicon valley. That's what the poster was objecting to, the idea that it's a comfort that Hillary did well in rich suburbs and the rich parts of cities.

Thoguh posted:

I was literally just pulling a sentence out of the tweet Maxxbot posted and making fun of it because I felt like it was yet another sign that Hillary did amazingly well among a very certain subset of the population and really poorly with everyone else.

loquacius posted:

Fittingly one of the things that irrationally irritated me the most about Hamilton was the rah-rah New York nationalism

and the blatant anti-John-Adams slant

I liked the cabinet meeting rap battles though

Venom Snake posted:

I know that but framing her winning the popular vote as meaningless because it was because of rich people is short sighted IMO. The thing Bernie has been talking about constantly now is that the democrats are the majority of the country which is why we need to turn them out.

One thing that the GOP is absolutely nervous about is Hillary did better in Texas than Obama did by a large margin and AZ was closer than Ohio. The Trump Coalition is extremely shakey and if the democrats can put up resistance then the GOP is going to be in deep poo poo

a corrupt official posted:

Okay guys I'm A LURKER but here's an idea. Not sure if I'm naïve or missing something or if what I'm describing already exists or was discussed already, but here goes. Why isn't there an app that facilitates (and hopefully drives) basic political involvement?

The app should be overtly leftist-democratic because we're not fooling anyone anyways and, at a minimum, have a cute interface detailing the breakdown of all government positions in the area the user resides in. Like an infographic showing the republican\democratic breakdown of your state senate, city council etc.

The user needs to be able to zoom in on any particular seat and get the relevant information regarding it. Who fills the position right now, how many votes the representative\opponent got, voting record etc. It should encompass everything from comptroller to governor. Also, obviously, it should remind users about any election they are eligible to vote in and actively pressure them to vote.

That's the minimum that I'm really surprised isn't, like, a thing that exists and is actively pushed forward by leftist figures. You can do much more, in my opinion. A large part of the American political system can be, like, gamified. Or at the very least be affected by gamification principles. You can get points for going to city hall meetings and such. As you level up and prove your seriousness, you get easier access to local and national political figures. You get asked for your opinion on policy issues. Also, people just like leveling up, so that's something.

a corrupt official posted:

Okay guys I'm A LURKER but here's an idea. Not sure if I'm naïve or missing something or if what I'm describing already exists or was discussed already, but here goes. Why isn't there an app that facilitates (and hopefully drives) basic political involvement?

The app should be overtly leftist-democratic because we're not fooling anyone anyways and, at a minimum, have a cute interface detailing the breakdown of all government positions in the area the user resides in. Like an infographic showing the republican\democratic breakdown of your state senate, city council etc.

The user needs to be able to zoom in on any particular seat and get the relevant information regarding it. Who fills the position right now, how many votes the representative\opponent got, voting record etc. It should encompass everything from comptroller to governor. Also, obviously, it should remind users about any election they are eligible to vote in and actively pressure them to vote.

That's the minimum that I'm really surprised isn't, like, a thing that exists and is actively pushed forward by leftist figures. You can do much more, in my opinion. A large part of the American political system can be, like, gamified. Or at the very least be affected by gamification principles. You can get points for going to city hall meetings and such. As you level up and prove your seriousness, you get easier access to local and national political figures. You get asked for your opinion on policy issues. Also, people just like leveling up, so that's something.

pathetic little tramp posted:

And he's a loving awesome state treasurer. Of course, CA is going to vote in Villaraigoeuesuaweasa or Newsom, but I can dream.

pathetic little tramp posted:

Yeah this is what keeps getting missed, this was not an election where democrats were defeated as much as it was an election where democrats went for the haymaker and missed

a corrupt official posted:

Okay guys I'm A LURKER but here's an idea. Not sure if I'm naïve or missing something or if what I'm describing already exists or was discussed already, but here goes. Why isn't there an app that facilitates (and hopefully drives) basic political involvement?

The app should be overtly leftist-democratic because we're not fooling anyone anyways and, at a minimum, have a cute interface detailing the breakdown of all government positions in the area the user resides in. Like an infographic showing the republican\democratic breakdown of your state senate, city council etc.

The user needs to be able to zoom in on any particular seat and get the relevant information regarding it. Who fills the position right now, how many votes the representative\opponent got, voting record etc. It should encompass everything from comptroller to governor. Also, obviously, it should remind users about any election they are eligible to vote in and actively pressure them to vote.

That's the minimum that I'm really surprised isn't, like, a thing that exists and is actively pushed forward by leftist figures. You can do much more, in my opinion. A large part of the American political system can be, like, gamified. Or at the very least be affected by gamification principles. You can get points for going to city hall meetings and such. As you level up and prove your seriousness, you get easier access to local and national political figures. You get asked for your opinion on policy issues. Also, people just like leveling up, so that's something.

pathetic little tramp posted:

Yeah this is what keeps getting missed, this was not an election where democrats were defeated as much as it was an election where democrats went for the haymaker and missed. They still gained seats in the House, gained seats in the Senate, and closed in on the gap in Texas, Arizona, and Georgia at the presidential level. And if the minority president's party is able to repeal Medicare or privatise Social Security, that's the sort of thing even the hardest core GOP voter will flip out over.

This is an opportunity to succeed. Democrats were never going to get a blueslide if Hillary won. They'd keep slowly making progress in the Senate while the GOP gridlocked everything. By being governed by the least popular, 3rd-most-losing president in the history of the United States and mistaking that for a mandate, the GOP is in real danger of overreaching and that's where progressive ideals that are inclusive and favour the small business owner over the ventureedit: vulture capitalist can succeed.

And everyone in this drat thread needs to do things to make that happen. I've already joined the League of Women Voters, gotten in touch with a local lawyer who donates to democrats to figure out if there's anything I can run for, pushed him to put leverage on the local democratic party to get rid of the loving morons who lost their elections this year, and donated money to Democrat gubernatorial candidates for 2018. Not to mention sowing the seeds of doubt among Trump supporters who are already on shaky ground with him.

pathetic little tramp posted:

Yeah this is what keeps getting missed, this was not an election where democrats were defeated as much as it was an election where democrats went for the haymaker and missed. They still gained seats in the House, gained seats in the Senate, and closed in on the gap in Texas, Arizona, and Georgia at the presidential level. And if the minority president's party is able to repeal Medicare or privatise Social Security, that's the sort of thing even the hardest core GOP voter will flip out over.

Serf posted:

No they won't.

a corrupt official posted:

Okay guys I'm A LURKER but here's an idea. Not sure if I'm naïve or missing something or if what I'm describing already exists or was discussed already, but here goes. Why isn't there an app that facilitates (and hopefully drives) basic political involvement?

frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:

Man I don't know. I think she was super garbo as a candidate but I don't think they could possibly be stupid enough to support her in 2020 after this fiasco. Losing a primary is one thing. Losing an election to Donald loving Trump is another entirely.

Serf posted:

No they won't.

Concerned Citizen posted:

but i think in the end her loss was due to strategic errors that exposed serious flaws in how the democratic party's professionals conduct campaigns. had their resources been better allocated and their messaging more effective, they probably would have won

Grondoth posted:

I donno man. Medicare is something most people really like, especially older people. Anyone who's retired needs it, and even people who can't retire use it.

Serf posted:

You're absolutely right. But if they repeal Medicare, the GOP won't take the heat for it.

Nameless_Steve posted:

ABSOLUTELY. I campaigned my rear end off in Florida, and we did a fantastic job on the ground where they sent us, squeezing every last vote out of the blue counties. But this war was lost by the generals, and they lost it in the air with their ineffective advertisements and weak messaging.

If I'd been a strategist, you would have seen much better than that weak-tea "children are watching" ad.

We would have seen attack ads targeting Donald Trump for faking donations to veterans' charities and pocketing the money for himself to buy Tim Tebow helmets and huge portraits of himself and relieve his own debt. "Donald Trump pretends to support veterans. Don't believe him."

If I'd been a strategist, you would have seen attack ads highlighting that most economists say Donald Trump's policies will result in another recession, with the tagline: "Don't let America be Trump's seventh bankruptcy."

If I'd been a strategist, you would have seen positive ads highlighting the fact that, contrary to Trump's grim and psychotic vision of the current state of the country, and though we still have a lot of room for improvement, things were a lot better than they were 8 years ago. "Gas prices under $2.50/gallon? Thanks, Obama. 20 million more people with health insurance? Thanks, Obama. Unemployment down to 5%? Thanks, Obama." and then you would have had Hillary say "But we've still got more work to do. We've got to get better jobs, which is why I support raising the minimum wage to a living wage. We've got to get equal pay for equal work. We've got to get our country growing again from the bottom up."

If I'd been a strategist, you would have seen attacks on Trump, and the hypocritical Republicans, who claim to support "traditional marriage" and then go and vote for a guy who says "til death do us part" every decade when he cheats on her with a newer model he found in a catalog. The "traditional marriage" folks voted for a guy who thinks being a celebrity gives him the right to grab and kiss married women. Compared to Donald, Bill's a boy scout, and if Hillary had had an unguarded moment at the debate when the subject was brought up where she pointed out that Bill's adultery hurt her, too, but she loves him and they worked out their issues, then that would have won over at least a few dozen thousand white women in the midwest. But... she's always wearing that bulletproof vest, literally and figuratively.

And, hell, maybe I would have engaged on the trade issue, too, and I wouldn't have told her to pretend to dislike TPP because of how the wind was blowing. Free trade sucks, sure, but fair trade that protects the environment and the rights of workers is something that she shouldn't have been ashamed to support. TPP has a few kinks to work out, but it is absolutely the best trade deal we've ever made. She shouldn't have run from it.

Serf posted:

You're absolutely right. But if they repeal Medicare, the GOP won't take the heat for it.