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ChickenWing posted:I swear to christ it's like every other criticism in this thread is something that's applicable to like 99% of other fantasy authors, or is directly contradicted by a previous criticism (how do any of these kingdoms/empires make sense please explain to me? but also don't because worldbuilding is haraam) The issue isn't that 99% of fantasy/genre fiction also has these problems, it's that 99% of fantasy/genre fiction isn't praised as some sort of masterpiece. As has been said repeatedly, Rothfuss is really just aggressively mediocre, and he's aggressively mediocre while committing the same sins as plenty of other authors who don't get nearly the accolades that he does. It's not hard to point to other authors who have worked in fantasy and show how to do world building correctly. But those authors are rarely well known outside of the circles that are really into fantasy. Rothfuss isn't exactly a household name, but he's a common airport book and has been at the top of the best sellers list and he really doesn't deserve it at all. Does he do worse things that fail to properly breathe life into his story? Absolutely. But just because he's not noticeably worse at something than other authors, just equally as bad, doesn't mean he's immune to criticism for it.
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Nov 19, 2016 10:25
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Atlas Hugged posted:The issue isn't that 99% of fantasy/genre fiction also has these problems, it's that 99% of fantasy/genre fiction isn't praised as some sort of masterpiece. As has been said repeatedly, Rothfuss is really just aggressively mediocre, and he's aggressively mediocre while committing the same sins as plenty of other authors who don't get nearly the accolades that he does. It's not hard to point to other authors who have worked in fantasy and show how to do world building correctly. But those authors are rarely well known outside of the circles that are really into fantasy. Rothfuss isn't exactly a household name, but he's a common airport book and has been at the top of the best sellers list and he really doesn't deserve it at all. Does he do worse things that fail to properly breathe life into his story? Absolutely. But just because he's not noticeably worse at something than other authors, just equally as bad, doesn't mean he's immune to criticism for it. What authors do world building correctly? I figure since we won't get new Rothfuss material
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Nov 19, 2016 10:28
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Torrannor posted:What authors do world building correctly? Hope MIrrlees in Lud-in-the-Mist.
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Nov 19, 2016 10:31
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Torrannor posted:What authors do world building correctly? Robert Jordan really did do world building well. All of the cultures and nations of his world feel distinct and plausible. There are some things that are outlandish, but you can also point to real life cultures that do things that other cultures consider to be bizarre and nonsensical. Wheel of Time has other issues and I've discussed those in some of my other posts in this thread, but the world building is solid. Gene Wolfe of course does a great job depicting a future earth orbiting a dying son. I can't praise The Book of the New Sun enough. I ordered Urth of the New Sun for Christmas and I can't wait for it to get to me. His "The Fifth Head of Cerberus" is a good mashup of science fiction and fantasy world building. The middle third of the book can be tough to get through because it's written from the perspective of a character from a pre-literate society who interprets life as more of an ongoing dream state than a physical place, but it's at the very least an interesting way to approach world building. And the beginning and end sections say a ton about the society and planets the book is set on without actually using a lot of words to do so just from the framing devices they use. It never has to say, "This society has a bureaucratic dictatorship where arbitrary decisions and red tape create misery for people," because the events of the story inform you of that indirectly. For fantasy adjacent, I'd recommend Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle. It's historical fiction with a few fantasy elements carefully slipped in, but as far as the structure of the books go it's basically a fantasy epic, except all the countries are real and half the cast are historical characters.
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Nov 19, 2016 10:44
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pentyne posted:Yes, lots of complexity about who truly has power and authority is pretty common in history. Kvothe's "legend" is all about being a "King-killer" and stealing daughters from "barrow Kings" yet literally nothing of substance to make any of those sound notable has been introduced. There's the assumption that Ambrose somehow becomes King and Kvothe murders him for whatever reason (stealing Denna) but even then committing regicide to somehow becoming a powerful and beloved folk tale is a pretty tall order. Pretty sure there's nothing beloved about Kvothe's legend and I suspect his action have probably caused even more hatred for the Ruh. Though if the average Ruh act anything like Kvothe's dad it'd be more than earned because holy poo poo he's a terrible rear end in a top hat.
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Nov 19, 2016 20:58
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Evil Fluffy posted:Pretty sure there's nothing beloved about Kvothe's legend and I suspect his action have probably caused even more hatred for the Ruh. Though if the average Ruh act anything like Kvothe's dad it'd be more than earned because holy poo poo he's a terrible rear end in a top hat. The whole reason the chronicler shows up is to write the official story of Kvothe's heroic saga. He even geeks out like a fanboy for half the time he's talking to Kote.
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Nov 19, 2016 21:40
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Is that true about the book implying Ambrose becomes King of Vintas and Kvothe offing him? Because holy poo poo that makes this Rothfuss's high school revenge fic
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Nov 19, 2016 21:55
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Malpais Legate posted:Is that true about the book implying Ambrose becomes King of Vintas and Kvothe offing him? Not Vintas, the Commonwealth, but otherwise yeah (and then everyone stood up and clapped).
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Nov 19, 2016 22:04
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Evil Fluffy posted:Pretty sure there's nothing beloved about Kvothe's legend and I suspect his action have probably caused even more hatred for the Ruh. Though if the average Ruh act anything like Kvothe's dad it'd be more than earned because holy poo poo he's a terrible rear end in a top hat. There's a warrant out for Kvothe's arrest, but otherwise nobody in the "present" seems to have anything negative to say about Kvothe at all. Malpais Legate posted:Is that true about the book implying Ambrose becomes King of Vintas and Kvothe offing him? It's not all-but-stated in the way that, say, Kvothe seducing his aunt is all-but-stated. The evidence is: We know Kvothe needs to kill a king at some point, we know Ambrose is in line for a throne, we see Ambrose move a few places up the line to the throne, and Ambrose is someone Kvothe could easily want to kill. I think it's more likely that Ambrose is a red herring. Kvothe names his sword a break in a poetic line, which suggests that the king Kvothe kills should be a poet. One of the sex ninjas mentions traveling with a "Poet King", but there's also Sim, who (unlike Ambrose) is a poet, but who (like Ambrose) is somethingth in line for some throne. But all of this is pretty much grasping at straws, because the text gives us nothing else to grasp at. Two-thirds of the way through "The Kingkiller Chronicle", we have met a grand total of zero kings.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:32
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It's gotta be Sim otherwise there would be no emotion behind the king killing. If we ever get it In assuming he kills Sim and Denna unintentionally or something.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:51
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Solice Kirsk posted:It's gotta be Sim otherwise there would be no emotion behind the king killing. There's no emotion behind anything else in the series, why start now? Killing other Edema Ruh who don't live up to Kvothe's ideals and have done bad things would give some emotion. Killing some bandits who aren't Edema Ruh would not. The former is clearly better from a writing perspective, but Rothfuss goes with the latter because he favors his base instinct of "my darlings are perfect!!" over telling an actually good story. So while killing Sim would be better from a writing perspective, there's a nonzero chance that Rothfuss just has Harry shank Draco instead.
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Nov 19, 2016 23:07
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I'll be shocked if Ambrose doesn't end up being a really lazy fakeout
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Nov 19, 2016 23:38
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Obviously Ambrose gets hollowed out as a vessel for Bast.
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Nov 20, 2016 05:28
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Malpais Legate posted:Is that true about the book implying Ambrose becomes King of Vintas and Kvothe offing him? Didn't he post a long rant on his blog about making GBS threads all over a high school bully or something similar? It was pretty personal and extremely immature for a guy in his 40s to spend so much time writing angrily about an event in his high school years.
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Nov 20, 2016 21:05
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pentyne posted:Didn't he post a long rant on his blog about making GBS threads all over a high school bully or something similar? It was pretty personal and extremely immature for a guy in his 40s to spend so much time writing angrily about an event in his high school years. I doubt it. That would involve him writing.
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Nov 20, 2016 21:43
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Then the pizza delivery guy shows up and says, "Man, you sure got a nice home and are hugely successful and obviously intelligent, and I delivered pizzas to that bully from high school and his house isn't as nice."
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Nov 21, 2016 04:39
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Torrannor posted:What authors do world building correctly? R Scott Bakker. 
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Nov 21, 2016 06:24
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Rime posted:R Scott Bakker. R "Black Demon Seed" Scott Bakker.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:44
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Benson Cunningham posted:R "Black Demon Seed" Scott Bakker. Everyone gets so hung up on the black demon seed, nobody remembers the weeping Conan the Barbarian loving holes in the ground.
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Nov 21, 2016 23:48
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Everyone gets so hung up on the black demon seed, nobody remembers the weeping Conan the Barbarian loving holes in the ground. I stopped after book 2 and that was just the part that stood out most to me. While different than Rothfuss, it still very much read "look how smart I am." Just didn't mesh with me. One of my friends with similar taste though loves it and suggests it to everyone.
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Nov 22, 2016 01:35
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Benson Cunningham posted:I stopped after book 2 and that was just the part that stood out most to me. While different than Rothfuss, it still very much read "look how smart I am." Oh I love Bakker's exact brand of philosophical wankery, he's one of my favourite authors. I just really wish he didn't have all the weird sex stuff. Still less hosed up than Auri.
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Nov 22, 2016 11:55
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The difference is that Bakker is actually smart
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Nov 22, 2016 12:09
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I wish Auri were real so she could give me an old button and then moonwalk out of the room. God! Don't you just love her zany wild free-spiritedness! She's like Darma in Darma and Greg!
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Nov 22, 2016 16:34
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Is there some unspoken rule that all lovely "epic fantasy" needs to have That One Female Character Who Is Childish, Weird, and Insightful?
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Nov 22, 2016 16:59
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Malpais Legate posted:Is there some unspoken rule that all lovely "epic fantasy" needs to have That One Female Character Who Is Childish, Weird, and Insightful? Not sure about epic fantasy but it's definitely an anime thing and I'm sure Rothfuss was/is a giant weeb.
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Nov 22, 2016 17:57
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Malpais Legate posted:Is there some unspoken rule that all lovely "epic fantasy" needs to have That One Female Character Who Is Childish, Weird, and Insightful? It's not just epic fantasy! http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ManicPixieDreamGirl
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Nov 22, 2016 18:16
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I don't think there's an equivalent for this in Wheel of Time, but there are so many characters it's possible I forgot one. Either way, none of the main female characters fit that archetype. The closest would be Min but she barely fits. She's mostly a Tom boy and she has a unique Talent, but her behavior is fairly level headed the whole series. I don't think there's anyone like that in A Song of Ice and Fire either. But Luna in Harry Potter seems to fit the bill. Edit: I guess people consider Ygritte from A Song of Ice and Fire to be one but that hardly seems right. Atlas Hugged fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 19:10
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there are No Original Ideas
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Nov 22, 2016 19:12
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There is such things as bad ideas. Auri is a sexist and patronising idea. Ophelia appears only twice after going mad, and is basically incommunicate because she is in her own world.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:14
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:There is such things as bad ideas. Auri is a sexist and patronising idea. To be fair, Auri started out as only patronizing to people with mental illness. It wasn't until WMF that she became a sex object too.
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Nov 23, 2016 08:46
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Not really sure how I feel about this. http://deadline.com/2016/11/lin-manuel-miranda-the-kingkiller-chronicle-movie-tv-show-1201861224/
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Nov 29, 2016 19:43
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Ohvee posted:Not really sure how I feel about this. http://deadline.com/2016/11/lin-manuel-miranda-the-kingkiller-chronicle-movie-tv-show-1201861224/ And this is coming less than 24 hours after Rothfuss accidentally leaked a page from book three on Twitch, went berserk over it and blamed everyone but himself, and for an encore said that people asking when book three is coming out sounds to him like "the sound of of like a nail being dragged across my teeth combined with the smell of someone who just poo poo on themselves".
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Nov 29, 2016 19:56
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So, what I'm learning is that Rothfuss can't write and he's also a horrific manchild.
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Nov 29, 2016 19:58
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Maybe he doesn't feel like finishing the series and is hoping for a GRRM/HBO-style ghostwriter deal.
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Nov 29, 2016 20:06
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I hope this finally puts to rest the whining that Book 3 isn't being worked on, if nothing else.
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Nov 29, 2016 20:19
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Not working on Book 3 would be a point in Rothfuss's favour. Lol at how you still haven't found any good writing in Kingkiller
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Nov 29, 2016 20:38
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Ohvee posted:Not really sure how I feel about this. http://deadline.com/2016/11/lin-manuel-miranda-the-kingkiller-chronicle-movie-tv-show-1201861224/ Lin-Manual Miranda is a talented guy, he may be able to take the only elements worth a drat and make something interesting with them. Also,  @ Rothfuss oh christ.
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Nov 29, 2016 20:47
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Did anyone get the leaked page? Kinda wanna read it.
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Nov 29, 2016 21:26
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Solice Kirsk posted:Did anyone get the leaked page? Kinda wanna read it. From what I hear it basically says nothing and is from like Page 8 of the book. That said this latest outburst from Rothfuss (coupled with the years of waiting) has made me decide to wait till I can get the book from my local Library instead of buying it because gently caress giving him any money if hes gonna be an rear end all the time.
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Nov 29, 2016 21:27
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There's always 
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