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Glazier posted:The lesson we should take from the 2016 debacle is that name recognition, fundraising and establishment resources are the least important thing in modern political culture. If name recognition was important we would all be talking about going to President-Elect Clinton's inauguration plans. Lesson that should be taken is that people who would have voted Democratic either stayed home because of EMAILS/BENGHAZI or disenfranchisement.
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Nov 30, 2016 15:20
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HannibalBarca posted:Buddy, we are not taking back the Senate in 2018 and we'll be lucky if we can avoid LOSING seats. It'll take a monumental, historic fuckup by the Trump administration to put enough Senate seats in play for control in 2018. Obviously that's entirely possible, but what I'm saying is that I think the energy for 2018 is gonna be better spent holding what Senate seats we can and targeting vulnerable House districts than making a play for Senate control, at least given what we know now. First thing we need to do is stop quitting before we've even tried and assuming we will always lose, there is no reason progressives cannot win in "red" states by articulating our message just like Sen. Sanders did in the primary. What we need to do is actually stand for something and call out the GOP instead of trying to appeal to their voters who will never support us. quote:Also state and local races, of course. I've heard talk that the DNC is gonna go hard after governorships in 2018, which is a great way to expand the presidential bench in the future. This is IMHO the most important piece, State houses and Senates are now the most important political bodies and should be treated as such by the party. Doctor Butts posted:Lesson that should be taken is that people who would have voted Democratic either stayed home because of EMAILS/BENGHAZI or disenfranchisement. I'm not going to deny that disenfranchisement is a big problem in GOP governed states, but blaming the loss on anything outside of Hillary Clinton and the Clinton campaign is pure denial. We lost because we ran an intentionally weak campaign with a bad candidate and a bad message, at the behest of donors who wanted to derail the progressive movement. Gynocentric Regime fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 15:28
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FlamingLiberal posted:A judge denied a request from Jill Stein to do a hand recount in WI. The recount was already done electronically I believe. Yeah, that's kind of the whole point of doing these recounts, there's a belief that the electronic side has been tampered with.
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Nov 30, 2016 15:28
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Glazier posted:First thing we need to do is stop quitting before we've even tried and assuming we will always lose, there is no reason progressives cannot win in "red" states by articulating our message just like Sen. Sanders did in the primary. What we need to do is actually stand for something and call out the GOP instead of trying to appeal to their voters who will never support us. While this is definitely a strategy worth considering in the future, we don't start off 2018 with a blank slate. Senators like Manchin (WV) and Donnelly (IN) are gonna have to twist themselves into a whole lot of knots to present themselves as plausible Sanders-style progressives. Not saying it's impossible, but what I am saying is that it's a very high risk to invest heavily in these sorts of races when there's basically an entire political party we have to rebuild at every level.
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Nov 30, 2016 15:45
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Trump is putting another billionaire investor in Wilbur Ross as Commerce Secretary.
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Nov 30, 2016 15:46
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HannibalBarca posted:While this is definitely a strategy worth considering in the future, we don't start off 2018 with a blank slate. Senators like Manchin (WV) and Donnelly (IN) are gonna have to twist themselves into a whole lot of knots to present themselves as plausible Sanders-style progressives. Not saying it's impossible, but what I am saying is that it's a very high risk to invest heavily in these sorts of races when there's basically an entire political party we have to rebuild at every level. Oh I'm not at all saying we should support them, they need to go; the DNC should bluntly tell them, resign or face a primary. The future of the party is not Blue Dogs.
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Nov 30, 2016 15:50
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Glazier posted:Oh I'm not at all saying we should support them, they need to go; the DNC should bluntly tell them, resign or face a primary. The future of the party is not Blue Dogs. You would rather have someone who voted with the party 0% of the time instead of 80% of the time? That truly is a well thought out stance that is going places. Xae fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 15:57
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Glazier posted:Oh I'm not at all saying we should support them, they need to go; the DNC should bluntly tell them, resign or face a primary. The future of the party is not Blue Dogs. The Democrats will never get a majority in congress (at least in the next decade) without some blue dogs. What you're advocating is basically the opposite of a fifty state strategy.
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Nov 30, 2016 15:57
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Glazier posted:Oh I'm not at all saying we should support them, they need to go; the DNC should bluntly tell them, resign or face a primary. The future of the party is not Blue Dogs. Exactly. It's Progressive Tea Party takeover time. Get on board or get out.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:01
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I'm loving this pizzagate poo poo and idiots coming out of the woodwork to state "well actually, Reddit has always been censored/partisan". Right now my tact is to ask what free speech was being violated with the shutdown of /r/jailbait or /r/n[fill in the blank] and asking how to pronounce ephebophilia.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:01
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fits my needs posted:Tulsi Gabbard is pro Muslim-genocide like her BJP backers/supporters. Hell, Trump interviewed her for a cabinet position and she actually went! I don't know how exactly she would play that as a good thing seeing as how reaching across the aisle to work for Donald Trump looks awful. This is the stupidest goddamn criticism. The president-elect wanted to talk to her. Do you really think anybody would say no to that?
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Nov 30, 2016 16:04
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what the gently caress is pizzagate
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Nov 30, 2016 16:04
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VH4Ever posted:Exactly. It's Progressive Tea Party takeover time. Get on board or get out. I love people who are like "Well our strategy hasn't worked for the last six years and our anointed Presidential candidate just got shellacked, but gosh darn if we just triple down on compromise and bipartisanship I'm sure it will work this time!" kenner116 posted:The Democrats will never get a majority in congress (at least in the next decade) without some blue dogs. What you're advocating is basically the opposite of a fifty state strategy. No what I'm advocating is we stop allowing the GOP to set the agenda and stop trying to get them to vote for us, when there is a progressive leaning independent constituency we can engage instead. Gynocentric Regime fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 16:04
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botany posted:what the gently caress is pizzagate an Alex Jones fever swamp conspiracy theory where John Podesta and other Dem flacks are running an undercover child sex ring out of a pizza restaurant in Northwest DC.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:07
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Glazier posted:Oh I'm not at all saying we should support them, they need to go; the DNC should bluntly tell them, resign or face a primary. The future of the party is not Blue Dogs. VH4Ever posted:Exactly. It's Progressive Tea Party takeover time. Get on board or get out.  nothing like calls for party purity as a strategy to win elections nationwide when the likely candidate they supported in the primary lost by a healthy margin.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:09
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Doctor Butts posted:
It worked for the Republicans
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Nov 30, 2016 16:10
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FlamingLiberal posted:Trump is putting another billionaire investor in Wilbur Ross as Commerce Secretary. This is really a "could be worse" pick. The guy is a pretty generic less regulation good, unleash business type who oddly enough blames the tendency for companies in declining industries to not actually try to do anything beyond maximizing short term income on upper management sitting around going "Oh woe is me! the external forces just don't give us a chance!"
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Nov 30, 2016 16:11
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HannibalBarca posted:an Alex Jones fever swamp conspiracy theory where John Podesta and other Dem flacks are running an undercover child sex ring out of a pizza restaurant in Northwest DC. And then a Reddit admin redirected his inbox to various /r/the_donald mods and started deleting posts, the most capital of capital crimes: censorship.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:11
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Glazier posted:I love people who are like "Well our strategy hasn't worked for the last six years and our anointed Presidential candidate just got shellacked, but gosh darn if we just triple down on compromise and bipartisanship I'm sure it will work this time!" Or maybe their realizing that identity politics isn't what the majority of voters are looking for, and they're focusing on economic policies instead
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Nov 30, 2016 16:14
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Phone posted:I'm loving this pizzagate poo poo and idiots coming out of the woodwork to state "well actually, Reddit has always been censored/partisan". *Meanwhile*, Trump wants to deport anyone who burns a flag. It's as if one sort of speech was privileged over another....
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Nov 30, 2016 16:17
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Shifty Pony posted:This is really a "could be worse" pick. The guy is a pretty generic less regulation good, unleash business type who oddly enough blames the tendency for companies in declining industries to not actually try to do anything beyond maximizing short term income on upper management sitting around going "Oh woe is me! the external forces just don't give us a chance!" Yeah, that's the thing. Like, all of Trump's cabinet picks are gonna be bad, but they're gonna be bad in different ways. It'll be important to understand why they're bad (generic GOP bad, or abnormal Trumpian kleptocratic nightmare bad) so that you can most effectively contest their appointments at confirmation hearings and use them as bludgeons with which to hammer the Trump administration in 2018 and 2020. For example, Mnuchin and Ross are basically your standard sort of ideological picks you could see in any conservative administration. Mnuchin may be sort of unique to Trump, but he's basically a faceless banker who will abolish financial regulations and pave the way for another 2008, the same way someone appointed by Jeb! or Rubio would have done. Chao is 1) Transportation secretary, so, eh and 2) is a standard ideological (and nepotistic, but that's a trickier angle) pick that actually has government experience, so count your blessings DeVos is skeevy and obviously Bad, but I'm not sure how potent of a political weapon the Education Department is gonna be, unless she does something overtly horrible. Then again, she basically destroyed the Detroit school system, so anything's possible I guess. Price should be an easy target. While Obamacare is divisive, Medicare and Medicaid generally are not. Price will almost certainly get confirmed as HHS Secretary, but if he and Ryan try to abolish Medicare, it should make for a slam dunk, politically. Then we come to Sessions and Carson, the most obviously Trumpian cabinet picks. They will be able to wreak essentially untold damage at Justice and HUD, respectively. While Sessions is almost certainly gonna get confirmed, we might still be able to stop Carson. In any event, you basically need to watch these two like a hawk and trumpet every awful thing they do from the rooftops. And there will almost certainly be a lot of awful things. HannibalBarca fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 16:17
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My Linux Rig posted:Or maybe their realizing that identity politics isn't what the majority of voters are looking for, and they're focusing on economic policies instead Nah dude, the stack of credit default swaps just didn't reach out to celebrities that matter like Kayne or Killer Michael or Timothy Cruise.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:19
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Doctor Butts posted:
gently caress party unity in a losing party! What we are doing has not worked! Taking the high road and vowing cooperation is as good as voting Republican. My Linux Rig posted:Or maybe their realizing that identity politics isn't what the majority of voters are looking for, and they're focusing on economic policies instead This too, trying to build a campaign on self-actualization doesn't work when most of the electorate are worried about food and shelter.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:20
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My Linux Rig posted:Or maybe their realizing that identity politics isn't what the majority of voters are looking for, and they're focusing on economic policies instead Wait, are you telling me people don't care about the diversity of the bank board that just robosigned their house into foreclosure? 
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Nov 30, 2016 16:20
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Glazier posted:This is IMHO the most important piece, State houses and Senates are now the most important political bodies and should be treated as such by the party.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:21
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Glazier posted:gently caress party unity in a losing party! What we are doing has not worked! Taking the high road and vowing cooperation is as good as voting Republican. No dude, third wayism/neoliberalism cannot fail, it can only be failed.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:21
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My Linux Rig posted:Or maybe their realizing that identity politics isn't what the majority of voters are looking for, and they're focusing on economic policies instead Careful with taking this too far, though. Trump ran on plenty of identity politics issues himself, and it would be foolish to assume that every voter is persuadable by economic arguments alone. I'm not saying that Clinton lost because ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE RACIST!!!1, and I do believe that a coherent and forceful economic message would have won the election, but it's a very blinkered way of looking at the world to assume that Democrats have the monopoly on identity politics.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:23
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My Linux Rig posted:Or maybe their realizing that identity politics isn't what the majority of voters are looking for, and they're focusing on economic policies instead Trump's entire campaign was identity politics. Non college educated white people were his focus, and they are are a bigger population than African Americans and Hispanics and LGBT combined.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:24
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Glazier posted:gently caress party unity in a losing party! What we are doing has not worked! Taking the high road and vowing cooperation is as good as voting Republican. That is a very uninformed opinion.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:24
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Doctor Butts posted:That is a very uninformed opinion. OK David Brooks.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:26
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Doctor Butts posted:That is a very uninformed opinion. Nah dude. The USA is filled with secret socialists waiting for their chance to vote for a centrally planned economy.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:26
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Bizarro Watt posted:If that's true, then it's a very good thing. The Senate looks awful for Democrats in 2018, but governorships look awful for Republicans in that same election. I have good reason to hope assuming we can get progressive participation in out local parties and get people like DWS out. I know my counties monthly meeting is coming up and the first thing I'm going to propose is moving the meeting from 6:30pm on a Monday(?!) to a weekend afternoon when people might actually be able to come. Phone posted:OK David Brooks. I was going to say Chris Cilliza, but that works too.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:26
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Doctor Butts posted:
Chasing the increasingly insane Republican party under Drumpf off a fascist cliff is a winning strategy to you? What exactly has deferring to simply pointing at Republicans and saying "we're not THAT bad, vote for us pls" and allowing the idea that "the truth is in the middle" and increasingly kowtowing to simply insane and fact-free policy proposals and arguments gotten the Democratic Party? Oh right, Hillary Clinton and a humiliating loss to Donald Trump. Call it what you like. But doing the same old thing isn't working anymore, and it's time to change tactics.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:29
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Business Gorillas posted:Wait, are you telling me people don't care about the diversity of the bank board that just robosigned their house into foreclosure? Yeah, it's going to be great when the DNC shifts to economic populism and loses the minority vote like Bernie. Or I guess the hope is that normal-Democrat voting older minorities will probably be dead due to cuts in social services and healthcare, and the younger Bernie-leaning minorities from this primary will vote for the economic populist candidate?
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Nov 30, 2016 16:30
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VH4Ever posted:Chasing the increasingly insane Republican party under Drumpf off a fascist cliff is a winning strategy to you? What exactly has deferring to simply pointing at Republicans and saying "we're not THAT bad, vote for us pls" and allowing the idea that "the truth is in the middle" and increasingly kowtowing to simply insane and fact-free policy proposals and arguments gotten the Democratic Party? Oh right, Hillary Clinton and a humiliating loss to Donald Trump. Call it what you like. But doing the same old thing isn't working anymore, and it's time to change tactics. What the gently caress are you talking about?
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Nov 30, 2016 16:30
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Phone posted:And then a Reddit admin redirected his inbox to various /r/the_donald mods and started deleting posts, the most capital of capital crimes: censorship. The implosion of Reddit is one of the few good things on the horizon
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Nov 30, 2016 16:31
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Doctor Butts posted:
His loss had nothing to do with policy.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:34
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Guy Goodbody posted:It worked for the Republicans This. Trying to build a big tent got us a 10 day supermajority in 2009 that hinged on the whims of Joe Leiberman (that arguably only existed because George W. Bush was the worst President since Reconstruction).
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Nov 30, 2016 16:35
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Yeah, a friend from high school posted that article and one of his friends popped in with some garbage I can't quote because I'm on my phone and FB has disabled selecting text? Idk. His argument was "Reddit has always been censored" or some garbage and laughing at the irony of /r/censorship being censored. Then doubling down by saying that Reddit is significantly left leaning and that the_donald provided a counterpoint (read: truth is in the middle idiot alert). I'll copy paste the convo in a sec.
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Nov 30, 2016 16:36
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I see the pics of Romney meeting with Trump and only one thing goes trough my mind. "So, Mr, Romney. what makes you think you are qualified to be the new Chris Christie in our organization? Tell me about your experience as a toady."
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Nov 30, 2016 16:37
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