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cinci zoo sniper posted:"Butter producers Norrmejerier and Arla have both forewarned that a shortage of the salty stuff is due to occur over the festive period and into the new year because there simply isn't enough milk to meet customers' high seasonal demands. It truly is the year that keeps on giving.
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Nov 30, 2016 18:09
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What's like the property tax system in Scandinavian countries like? Just kind of curious. It's what I work in now.
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Nov 30, 2016 18:17
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Hollismason posted:What's like the property tax system in Scandinavian countries like? Just kind of curious. It's what I work in now. What's property tax? Just kidding. What would you like to know? I can tell you about the Norwegian system, about as detailed as you like. Sweden and Denmark, not so much, but I can find some stuff if you give me some time. Working on a municipal level or national level for the tax agency? Property tax specifically is a municipal authority controlled tax, which varies from kommune to kommune. The tax system is pretty ancient and the property tax law is an old mishmash and patchwork of a law, that leaves a lot to be desired. On a national level, property is sort of indirectly taxed through a capital tax system, which is intricate and is used quite frequently as a monetary policy tool by the government. Tax in Scandinavia is a pretty huge business and will keep you safely employed for life in a pretty well-paid, but boring job.
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Nov 30, 2016 18:31
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Hollismason posted:What's like the property tax system in Scandinavian countries like? Just kind of curious. It's what I work in now. Sweden kinda abolished its property tax since it was the only kind of tax that showed how much actual money was going into it, instead of being hidden in general income tax or employment tax which are more obscure. That is one part of the reason why there is a building bubble in property prices in Sweden.
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Nov 30, 2016 18:32
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That's interesting. Yes, part of my research has been into how marketable a paralegal/ in depth understanding of property tax laws within the US is in regard to finding some sort of employment with real estate investment firms, but I am unsure if it is.
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Nov 30, 2016 18:36
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Hollismason posted:What's like the property tax system in Scandinavian countries like? Just kind of curious. It's what I work in now. Iirc Sweden got rid of property taxes in 2008 when the right wing government thought that the housing bubble wasn't inflated enough, and they needed to bribe the middle class a bit more. Instead of the old national tax it was supposed to be a local government tax, which turned into a local government fee. That fee is supposedly connected to the value of the property, but it is capped at a max value of some 1200 SEK/year. So basically it's not a factor.
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Nov 30, 2016 18:37
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Hollismason posted:That's interesting. Yes, part of my research has been into how marketable a paralegal/ in depth understanding of property tax laws within the US is in regard to finding some sort of employment with real estate investment firms, but I am unsure if it is. Well, that depends. A paralegal-level understanding of property tax laws (with innovative new approaches from the big US dontchaknow) and experience with valuation and estimates of property value and condition would possibly get you quite far with several of the firms in Norway who contract out to the individual communes for individual assessment of properties, general tax level and legal compliance. Oh, you thought there was a municipal or national tax deparment in charge of those things? That's cute. No, everything must be privatized and contracted out these days, don't you know. There are also jobs to be found doing property tax for the municipal authority though, and there is a general dearth of competence among them. All in all, not a bad gig for someone with experience and a brain, though probably a bit soul-crushingly boring. National... you'd be competing with my buddies the law school graduates that specialize in tax law. That's a tough one. Same goes for big consultancy firms and finance.
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Nov 30, 2016 18:46
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Nice piece of fish posted:I can tell you about the Norwegian system, about as detailed as you like. 
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Nov 30, 2016 19:24
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Nice piece of fish posted:Well, that depends. A paralegal-level understanding of property tax laws (with innovative new approaches from the big US dontchaknow) and experience with valuation and estimates of property value and condition would possibly get you quite far with several of the firms in Norway who contract out to the individual communes for individual assessment of properties, general tax level and legal compliance. Oh, you thought there was a municipal or national tax deparment in charge of those things? That's cute. No, everything must be privatized and contracted out these days, don't you know. That's not unusual. The United States system is similar with Counties and individual Townships having Assessors. I probably have more knowledge in that specific area, but also have specialty in Property Tax investment for purchase of property taxes etc.. My area of study would probably be Denmark. Although I have yet to super investigate Norway. I know of a few firms here that deal with foreign countries and people there investing in American Real Estate. I've actually done some appeals for a firm that was in Sweden I think. I dunno in the US at least you don't have to have Citizenship in order to buy property apparently that is not the case with some European Countries.
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Dec 1, 2016 00:15
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Nice piece of fish posted:What's property tax? A non-european friend who is studying for the ACA (UK professional accounting certificate) could not loving believe me when I told her Sweden not only has no property tax but also no inheritance tax.
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Dec 1, 2016 00:19
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Gorilla Desperado posted:Generally no we don't, even in the "darkest" parts of Jutland (as judged by Zealanders). I live in the middle part, a bit over an hours drive from Aarhus. Could you mail me at jayhey at google's mail thingy, I'd like to mail you some stuff to help with figuring things out. And some of my friends and family in Aarhus itself might be able to help out too. Hey sent you a email.
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Dec 1, 2016 00:23
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MiddleOne posted:A non-european friend who is studying for the ACA (UK professional accounting certificate) could not loving believe me when I told her Sweden not only has no property tax but also no inheritance tax.
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Dec 1, 2016 00:35
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I was really surprised that it's not a common system. It can be progressive if implemented right ( it rarely is) . However Sweden doesn't seem to have huge swathes of a segregation by rave issue? I meant to write race but I am leaving that.
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Dec 1, 2016 00:39
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Sweden has been topping growth in inequality for years. 0% gift, property and inheritance tax is completely bonkers because that just leaves capital gains which in contrast to income tax is completely flat. You can just sit on your capital until the heat death of the universe because there's no longer a system of taxing what has already been taxed. This is great for the economy because reasons? 
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Dec 1, 2016 00:41
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Hollismason posted:I was really surprised that it's not a common system. It can be progressive if implemented right ( it rarely is) . However Sweden doesn't seem to have huge swathes of a segregation by rave issue?
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Dec 1, 2016 00:42
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ThaumPenguin posted:It truly is the year that keeps on giving. We now have no real reason not to adopt peanut butter as our new staple of fat atop our sandwiches.
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Dec 1, 2016 00:42
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evilmiera posted:We now have no real reason not to adopt peanut butter as our new staple of fat atop our sandwiches.
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Dec 1, 2016 00:43
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New York has a pretty good system for property taxes, kind of. The thing with property taxes is that first it suffers from being a judgemental system, and it can actually developer into a regressive system. From my understanding which is limited Scandinavian countries tax according to rental income of a building?
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Dec 1, 2016 00:44
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MiddleOne posted:Sweden has been topping growth in inequality for years. 0% gift, property and inheritance tax is completely bonkers because that just leaves capital gains which in contrast to income tax is completely flat. You can just sit on your capital until the heat death of the universe because there's no longer a system of taxing what has already been taxed. This is great for the economy because reasons? Yeah and lots of shits in Finland have been pointing to Sweden and say we need to do it too because of idiot reasons. I think perhaps it could be cut off at the bottom to spare the poorest people a bit, but other than that it should remain. If we should've copied sweden on anything it would've been not joining the euro because goddamn...
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Dec 1, 2016 05:42
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His Divine Shadow posted:Yeah and lots of shits in Finland have been pointing to Sweden and say we need to do it too because of idiot reasons. I think perhaps it could be cut off at the bottom to spare the poorest people a bit, but other than that it should remain. If we should've copied sweden on anything it would've been not joining the euro because goddamn... Yeah you hosed up, having a currency we can de-value at will has proven a great decision. Thank the gods the referendum didn't pass.
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Dec 1, 2016 06:16
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cinci zoo sniper posted:*in confused Odin voice* How do you think Denmark and Finland came to be? MiddleOne posted:Yeah you hosed up, having a currency we can de-value at will has proven a great decision. Thank the gods the referendum didn't pass.
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Dec 1, 2016 07:35
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MiddleOne posted:Sweden has been topping growth in inequality for years. 0% gift, property and inheritance tax is completely bonkers because that just leaves capital gains which in contrast to income tax is completely flat. You can just sit on your capital until the heat death of the universe because there's no longer a system of taxing what has already been taxed. This is great for the economy because reasons? From among the lowest levels in the world. The change in growth also depends on your starting point. We are still significantly lower in income inequality than France or Germany. How large part of that growth of inequality is due to immigration? I like the dip in 1980, when the right was ruling. How many in the left have actually read Piketty, instead of just cherrypicking small factoids? I have, and even for a centrist like me, there are some pretty concerning issues he brings up. Regardless, the tax system is messed up and for some reason particularly good at loving up the poorer people, where especially S have been good at introducing taxes on things that affect poorer people like increased gas taxes and so on. We have property tax + interest rate deductible that favours the better off, we have an income tax system where we pay 30-50% (tiered) of our salary in tax + the employer pays 50% of your salary as employer tax, which makes higher education not worth it out of a economic perspective, meanwhile we have a system where people with stock companies can take out money with lower taxes instead of income. The tax rate also prohibits people from leaving welfare benefits since you have to work and still not make more than from welfare benefits, which have created the weird market where non-qualified jobs are given to those which have part of their salary payed by the Unemployment agency, forcing other companies to do the same to stay competitive. Low salary jobs that some in the right keeps droning about are pointless, since they would be on the same level as benefits unless we really, really want to gently caress over the poor even more.
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Dec 1, 2016 08:08
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Hollismason posted:That's not unusual. The United States system is similar with Counties and individual Townships having Assessors. I probably have more knowledge in that specific area, but also have specialty in Property Tax investment for purchase of property taxes etc.. Property Tax investment, purchase of property taxes? Do you mean an aquisition tax? Everyone should superinvestigate Norway. Particularly how the justice department withheld a cancellation of an extradition request from Italy, leaving a suspected terrorist-light and confirmed rear end in a top hat to rot in jail for several months and a lot of court proceedings in direct violation of every ethical and moral standard for prosecutory conduct as well as the goddamned constitution and the european human rights convention. Just saying. In Norway you don't need to be a citizen to purchase realestate, generally. But that's a whole 'nother kettle of fine fish I'm not getting into right now. Suffice to say, you better know what you're doing. Oh, you're interested? Well, it all started back in the 1500s with the implementation of a property tax system called "Matrikkelskyld". Simply put, the invididual farms were issued a number, a fraction of a whole number representing the "skyld" or the "debt" amount of an administrative unit or county. This served as both a determination of the amount owed as well as the relative value of the farm for assessment purposes. And then they ran that system through a blender, had an economist poo poo all over it and then pushed that through parliament. The result is what we call Which fucing sucks, to be technical about it. Nice piece of fish fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 09:19
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Svartvit posted:"Inte tillåtet publicera bilder som kränker religiösa grupper: Ganska dåligt." I'm still not 100% sure how to parse neither the questions nor the answers to be honest. Svartvit posted:"Kända människor ska inte bli fotograferade privat: Ganska dåligt." What does that even mean? v...vad? varför would du place the svaror in detta order? "mycket dåligt, obesvarat, tveksam, ganska dåligt"??? 
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Dec 1, 2016 09:58
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Cardiac posted:From among the lowest levels in the world. Irrelevant. It's steadily going in the wrong direction and it's an over a decade long trend, it's a systematic failure that needs to be addressed. Cardiac posted:How many in the left have actually read Piketty, instead of just cherrypicking small factoids? I have, and even for a centrist like me, there are some pretty concerning issues he brings up. I actually had the OECD in mind who began warning us years before Picketty released Capital in 21th century.  Cardiac posted:Regardless, the tax system is messed up and for some reason particularly good at loving up the poorer people, where especially S have been good at introducing taxes on things that affect poorer people like increased gas taxes and so on. I think it's unfair to single out S when both the Persson and Reinfeldt governments did their fair share in redistributing away taxes from income and capital to indirect consumption taxes such as carbon and alcohol. There are some minute differences but mostly the trend is the same whether there is a middle left or middle right government. State expenditure of GDP is not going down, the only thing that has changed is how that money is being redistributed and overwhelmingly it's been turning upwards. Instead of nurse and police salaries we get ROT-avdrag, inkomstskatteavdrag, fåmannsföretagavdrag and ränteavdrag. Long-term that is not sustainable, it's why in-equality is increasing instead of decreasing. Especially problematic, as you noted, is the usage of private companies to replace wages with dividends. Not only do you then get taxed flat instead of progressively on your income but it also deprives municipal budgets of income as capital gains is a state tax unlike the base income tax which is regional and municipal. Also I heavily disagree about decreasing marginal and värnskatt. The economical arguments for lowering them are suspect at best and the political argument you yourself mentioned is very weak. If we're going to talk about problems with higher education not paying off then public sector, non-management, salaries would be a much more effective point to start with than people already earning above 37000SEK a month. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 10:15
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Hollismason posted:That's not unusual. The United States system is similar with Counties and individual Townships having Assessors. I probably have more knowledge in that specific area, but also have specialty in Property Tax investment for purchase of property taxes etc.. Good luck with buying property in Norway.
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Dec 1, 2016 10:53
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Alhazred posted:Good luck with buying property in Norway.
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Dec 1, 2016 10:54
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I imagine it would not be hard to buy something in Bergen. While its not as insane as Oslo its still not cheap. Plus you would have to deal with the people who live there.
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Dec 1, 2016 11:06
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Alhazred posted:While its not as insane as Oslo its still not cheap. Plus you would have to deal with the people who live there.
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Dec 1, 2016 11:08
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Alhazred posted:While its not as insane as Oslo its still not cheap. Plus you would have to deal with the people who live there. Also, you must know your rights per the realestate purchase and sale law (avhendingsloven) which is linked to a generalized contracts and deals law, which has an important impact on all agreements and contracts which are further regulated through customary law, legal presedence and legal theory of contractual oblications - in case anything goes wrong. It's an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure theory, at the point where you'd have to get a professional involved in this, you're already kind of screwed in most cases. Obviously, you'll have to know local planning regulations, and whether your purchase requires approval from licensing authorities. In some cases, particularly with old farms and former farmland and such, in many municipalities you may need approval for the purchase depending on who you are, whether you're gonna live there personally and if the sum agreed upon is acceptable. Please read "Lov av 28. november 2003 nr. 98 om konsesjon ved erverv av fast eiendom (Konsesjonsloven) mv." for more. You should also be aware of any local restrictions on use for the property, whether the property has any unsolvable liens or easements (easements are a big thing in Norway), there's also special easments (løysingsrettar) which are just... untranslatable but can have a massive impact on the property's rights and value. Then there's property tax, obviously, among other fixed taxes on property including municipal fees etc. If the property is a part of a co-ownership collective/condominium, it might be regulated after a special condominium law or a general co-ownership law, both of which have a major impact on a lot of the previously mentioned stuff. A particular danger with older co-operative solutions may be that they predate the newer special condominium law (which forbids the use of condominiums not regulated by municipal authorities as security for a loan - obviously a big deal) and may be a so-called irregular condominium collective. This is obviously bad and not great. Also condominium laws cause all sorts of problems in smaller collectives regardless. It's a nightmare. Then there's the question of (if you're interested in buying a quaint old farm for instance) a very special allodial right called "odelsrett" which allows the decendants of that farmer in some cases to demand the farm from you, at more or less a fair price. This is pretty special to Norway, and I doubt you'll be able to find a single lawyer abroad that can tell you poo poo about it. A related problem is "boplikt", which simplified means you're obligated to live in certain types of properties within a certain amount of time and for a certain amount of time. Then there's "driveplikt" which means if you buy a farm you have to run it. Then there's all the practical questions around possible malfeasance on part of the realtor, which with later year's booming overinflated realestate market has become a significant problem. And this is all just off the top of my head. But sure, go ahead and buy.
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Dec 1, 2016 11:38
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Did I meantion leaseholding? I should have mentioned leasehold estates (tomtefeste). It's another nightmare that's reached aaaall the way to the European Court of Human Rights. And that's how easy it is to forget something important about realestate in Norway.
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Dec 1, 2016 11:46
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I was mostly getting at weather in Bergen, i.e. "who wants to live there". Real estate is going to be insanely expensive anywhere in the Nordics, I think, unless you are buying a chunk of swamp beyond the polar circle. You can get good places to live dirt cheap (sub 20 000€) in Sweden if you are willing to live in small cities, the big question is naturally if you will be able to make a living there.
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Dec 1, 2016 11:49
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Zudgemud posted:You can get good places to live dirt cheap (sub 20 000€) in Sweden if you are willing to live in small cities, the big question is naturally if you will be able to make a living there. after living in Latvia where villages can have 400/400 fiber, I can't go back to 30 Mbps joke I had in Tobo), and is within a 30 minute drive to a parking lot near Stockholm subway entrance, or Malmo bus parking lot. Or just has some 30-40 minute bus/train connection to downtown areas of thereof, that goes twice per hour any day, at most of the reasonable hours.
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Dec 1, 2016 12:01
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I'd be totally down for a good 200k SEK place, provided that it has high speed Internet connection (I'm sorry Yeah sorry then you are easily up in the +1000k SEK area, 1h commute is pretty normal. I was more thinking Tidaholm, Grums, Skövde and those sort of places.
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Dec 1, 2016 12:09
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dOWBJbs5MMbo0BWapmKL GLC5XxIXmyFGcvyw8HJu QqPVr5oLcaIzwemT9f10 9Sn5FIIQqNE7P4RwZBeI KbfPvj7WwkDulDjTiWHK 5LawVHSQo9uAXWCc6A4W JX085TPy2oezSMysRZWb 3ZDVQVhuMkubtGVJqs0C SczsomuiFYsuJflQgMFV 3S9wWOb65WwmnMWkolZJ Plasmafountain fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2016 12:16
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I'd be totally down for a good 200k SEK place, provided that it has high speed Internet connection (I'm sorry Uh... Maybe if you use that 200k as a downpayment for a mortgage somehow, otherwise no way. Even back in my hometown which is 40 minutes from central Gothenburg by train creeps around 300-500k for 1-2 room apartments.
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Dec 1, 2016 12:26
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So I thought about the Swedish real estate, that everything nice as already take or balls-expensive.
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Dec 1, 2016 12:33
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Nice piece of fish posted:property Nice piece of fish posted:property what the gently caress ThaumPenguin fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 12:51
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cinci zoo sniper posted:So I thought about the Swedish real estate, that everything nice as already take or balls-expensive. Actually, no. Especially if you come from a country where you have a different perspective on distance. For example, Stockholm inner city is hosed. Oh, oh so hosed. But if you look at distances that would be a normal commute in other places the picture changes, as Swedes value commutes differently. Take Malmö for example. If you want a detached house with three rooms and a kitchen, you're looking at a minimum of 3-4 million SEK for anything that a Swede would consider "central". However, we don't have nearly the same kind of urban sprawl as US cities. As soon as you look at something 15-20 minutes away by car, you'll find houses for cheaper than that. If you are prepared to drive 30 minutes to Malmö instead of living smack dab in the middle of the city, you can find a house that is twice the size but still half the price, especially if you keep an Eye out for a while. And we're not talking junk houses, but nice countryside houses with big properties within 30 minutes by car from the third biggest city in Sweden. So you should take the Swede's bitching about housing with a grain of salt, since some of it is coming from wanting to live in the perfect apartment in the middle of a city, while still being in a quiet area with no crime, pollution, traffic, with great public schools and parks but low taxes. As soon as you are just a tiny bit more flexible than that, you have a great advantage on the Swedish property market. E: but yeah, there are limits, but I could found several 1 room apartments in Skåne for around 200 K. But you'd be living in places like Bjuv, Perstorp and Klippan, which would be hard to combine with a commute to Malmö. But I found one apartment in Kävlinge (10 minutes from Lund, 20-25 from Malmö) for around 300 K. And again, we're not talking crack house dens: http://www.hemnet.se/bostad/bostadsratt-1rum-kavlinge-kavlinge-kommun-kullagatan-13d-10455875 lilljonas fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 13:14
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lilljonas posted:Actually, no. Especially if you come from a country where you have a different perspective on distance. 1h commute by car gives you lots of cheaper options yes, if you can suffer through 1h drive each way you are usually down to sub million prices again, and if you are OK with 1-1.5h commutes by public transport you can usually find the same price range. But it will still be +500k SEK or so and not the 100k SEK in Tidaholm. Zudgemud fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 13:28
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