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jivjov posted:
Yet I'm sure he'd be first in line to condemn these people.  
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Dec 2, 2016 02:24
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The thing that bugs me the most is honestly the veteran thing. Like...no offense to any veterans whatsoever....but what the heck does their opinion on flag burning matter? Generic "the veterans" don't set law or policy. And veterans aren't flags; burning a flag says nothing about veterans or the burner's opinion thereof.
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Dec 2, 2016 02:27
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jivjov posted:In the wake of Donald Trump's tweet about wanting flag burners to either be jailed or lose their citizenship, I've seen a LOT of anti-flag burning rhetoric pop up on facebook. I could fill several pages of this thread with it. Most of it is the bog standard "The flag is too sacred", "If you hate america then just leave", or (my favorite) "Won't someone please think of the poor veterans whose feelings will be hurt by a burning flag". "I respect the right for someone to use their first amendment" but I will murder them if they do. How exactly is this "respect?"
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Dec 2, 2016 02:32
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jivjov posted:The thing that bugs me the most is honestly the veteran thing. Like...no offense to any veterans whatsoever....but what the heck does their opinion on flag burning matter? Generic "the veterans" don't set law or policy. And veterans aren't flags; burning a flag says nothing about veterans or the burner's opinion thereof. THEY KEPT AMERICA SAFE! If it weren't for veterans, there would be no America. We are under constant existential threat from all directions and the only reason America still exists is because of our aggressive foreign policy of fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here.
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Dec 2, 2016 02:33
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jivjov posted:The thing that bugs me the most is honestly the veteran thing. Like...no offense to any veterans whatsoever....but what the heck does their opinion on flag burning matter? Generic "the veterans" don't set law or policy. And veterans aren't flags; burning a flag says nothing about veterans or the burner's opinion thereof. It bugs the poo poo out of me on all sorts of issues. Military service has given me special insight on a small set of issues, and on those issues it'd be wise to defer to my experience. If I say "As a veteran, my opinion on East Timor..." you should ask me to explain why the heck I am acting like an expert or special authority. But if I say "As a veteran, let me tell you some good tricks to get things flowing when you have to provide a urine sample..." you might want to listen up.
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Dec 2, 2016 02:36
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This has started making the rounds on my family/co-workers Facebooks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW85ZcswiqM As if I needed any more reason to hate the Christmas season.
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Dec 2, 2016 02:38
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I had a guy tell me that the first amendment only exists because soldiers died for it. I wanted to tell him that those rights only exist because we are endowed with them by Our Creator but I am guessing that he will say that he works for God.
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Dec 2, 2016 02:41
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jivjov posted:The thing that bugs me the most is honestly the veteran thing. Like...no offense to any veterans whatsoever....but what the heck does their opinion on flag burning matter? Generic "the veterans" don't set law or policy. And veterans aren't flags; burning a flag says nothing about veterans or the burner's opinion thereof. Ostensibly, their sacrifices are what protect the people of the United States' freedoms. It is therefore the highest insult to ever use those freedoms.
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Dec 2, 2016 02:53
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jivjov posted:In the wake of Donald Drumpf's tweet about wanting flag burners to either be jailed or lose their citizenship, I've seen a LOT of anti-flag burning rhetoric pop up on facebook. I could fill several pages of this thread with it. Most of it is the bog standard "The flag is too sacred", "If you hate america then just leave", or (my favorite) "Won't someone please think of the poor veterans whose feelings will be hurt by a burning flag". These are usually the same people who post: 
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Dec 2, 2016 03:04
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Jabarto posted:Since it came up, what's the best response to the "we're a not a democracy, we're a constitutional republic" line? It drives me loving batty but I have a hard time articulating why. You really can't, since it's true, but people who actually say this are not arguing in good faith anyhow. The only concession I make to people who say this today, is that these words are taken, almost exactly, from innumerable writings by the Founding Fathers. But they are obviously just parroting some pundit, and never actually read these writings since they don't understand the concept at all. Everything out of these peoples' mouths today belies the notion entirely. We should ban flag burning and send people to jail and revoke their citizenship if they do it because we said so and we're the majority *rabble rabble rabble*. In a democracy, the people wanted it, and so it is. If you want to change it, make a new law to revoke the old one. Good luck minorities! In the Founding Father version of a republic, you have a Supreme Court that always says no, the government can't just arrest people for speaking their mind, no matter how many people vote for it. The Founding Fathers were also wont to assume that while elected representatives were a voice of the people, they were also a check against the people, and wouldn't allow something like to become law to begin with. They were suppose to be above the heated passions of the common man.
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Dec 2, 2016 03:16
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jivjov posted:The thing that bugs me the most is honestly the veteran thing. Like...no offense to any veterans whatsoever....but what the heck does their opinion on flag burning matter? Generic "the veterans" don't set law or policy. And veterans aren't flags; burning a flag says nothing about veterans or the burner's opinion thereof. Conservatives don't actually give a single poo poo about veterans. They're a convenient talking point. They also believe themselves to be real America where everybody that disagrees with them is bad, unAmerican, and wants to destroy the nation. Therefore if you're burning a flag you are disrespecting them and by extension America and by extension everybody that bled or died for America. Because those people fought and died for you and your freedoms you should respect them. You can respect the people who died to defend your freedoms by not ever practicing them. It's also a convenient way to shout down anybody that disagrees with conservatives and thus real America. "People died for my right to free religion so you don't get to complain when I use it as an excuse to ban the gays, abortion, and Muslims. Nyah."
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Dec 2, 2016 03:37
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Keeshhound posted:Ostensibly, their sacrifices are what protect the people of the United States' freedoms. It is therefore the highest insult to ever use those freedoms. It's not entirely false. There are irresponsible uses of freedoms. The Klan has the right to burn crosses, but that doesn't mean they should. I just don't think flag-burning reaches the same level, but let's not pretend like we can't criticize people for how they use their protected speech.
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Dec 2, 2016 03:37
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Joshmo posted:The Founding Fathers were also wont to assume that while elected representatives were a voice of the people, they were also a check against the people, and wouldn't allow something like to become law to begin with. They were suppose to be above the heated passions of the common man. Generally, I think the House was supposed to represent the passions of the common man, since they were directly elected by small constituencies and faced reelection every two years. The Senate was supposed to be the steady, moderating influence. They didn't go as far as the British House of Lords who were nobles appointed by the king, but they were insulated from the people by being selected by the legislatures and serving six year terms. You still here some conservatives talking about returning to indirect election of senators because that would theoretically make the Senate more conservative. ToxicSlurpee posted:Conservatives don't actually give a single poo poo about veterans. They're a convenient talking point. They also believe themselves to be real America where everybody that disagrees with them is bad, unAmerican, and wants to destroy the nation. Therefore if you're burning a flag you are disrespecting them and by extension America and by extension everybody that bled or died for America. Because those people fought and died for you and your freedoms you should respect them. Isn't there something from Umberto Eco about fascists worshiping the idea of The Soldier while not respecting individual soldiers? I feel like it's in there somewhere. Jurgan fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Dec 2, 2016 |
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Dec 2, 2016 03:49
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Soldiers are like supply side jesus. A divine figure who just happens to agree with everything they believe so your argument is invalid.
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Dec 2, 2016 03:58
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Dienes posted:These are usually the same people who post: 
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Dec 2, 2016 04:05
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Jabarto posted:Since it came up, what's the best response to the "we're a not a democracy, we're a constitutional republic" line? It drives me loving batty but I have a hard time articulating why. Because all those concepts coexist to describe different aspects of a system of government so the entire meme doesn't even make sense The United Kingdom is a monarchy, parliamentary, a democracy, and ruled by law
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Dec 2, 2016 04:46
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Jurgan posted:It's not entirely false. There are irresponsible uses of freedoms. The Klan has the right to burn crosses, but that doesn't mean they should. I just don't think flag-burning reaches the same level, but let's not pretend like we can't criticize people for how they use their protected speech. Yeah, but that's all illustrative of the Left/Right mindset. Burning the Flag (a symbol of our country) doesn't oppress anyone. No respectable family wakes up to their patriarch hanging from a tree with their lawn covered in burning flags. Burning crosses . . . not so much. Equating "burning crosses" with "flag burning" is like this: 
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Dec 2, 2016 05:20
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jivjov posted:The thing that bugs me the most is honestly the veteran thing. Like...no offense to any veterans whatsoever....but what the heck does their opinion on flag burning matter? Generic "the veterans" don't set law or policy. And veterans aren't flags; burning a flag says nothing about veterans or the burner's opinion thereof. No offense taken. I think the people that use this argument assume that the militiary owns the flag somehow. I can kind of see where they come from since we see the military do a lot of flag-related things, but they miss the point that the military respects the flag as a show of their subordinate position to the civilian gov't. The federal government owns the flag if anything does.
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Dec 2, 2016 08:40
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 Did they light it on fire? Take a wee on it? Put on an OBAMA'S BLM THUG RAPPER ornament? Nope, they just didn't attend the Thanksgiving ceremonies. Maybe they were depressed about the election, idk. You'd think that with Trump winning America's Freedom Fighters would calm down a little. But this is an alarming amount of racist vein throbbing spewage for two teenagers not attending a white house ceremony. quote:Michelle Obama kicked off her family’s final Christmas season at the White House on Friday by receiving a 19-foot Balsam-Veitch fir from Wisconsin as the official White House Christmas Tree. quote:Malia and Sasha also skipped their father’s traditional pardon of a Thanksgiving turkey this week. quote:Do they not respect the importance of their role as daughters of our president? quote:NO ONE RESPECTS HUSSEIN. quote:“One’s asleep,” she said, gesturing toward the White House (that slaves built) “These two are up,” she added, referring to the sons of her brother, Craig Robinson, who was visiting with his family for Thanksgiving. quote:They will soon be gone. quote:Hard work and success. quote:Muslims. quote:We are done with this sh*t.   
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Dec 2, 2016 13:36
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Wait...the Obama kids are adopted? Not that it matters, but that's neat trivia, I guess.
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Dec 2, 2016 13:38
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They need to be adopted to fit the conspiracy that Michelle has a penis, which they need to believe to fit the conspiracy that Barack so gay, which they need to believe to fit gently caress knows. Even though being a trans woman would still make her a woman. I think it's because Trans = Gay = Marxist = BLM = Islam = Bad = Obama, therefore they all must be simultaneously the same thing.
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Dec 2, 2016 13:42
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Ohh...it literally is just tying back into that asinine "Michelle is really Michael" horseshit? That's so loving stupid. I really can't wait for our first openly homosexual or transgender president just to see conservative heads detonate
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Dec 2, 2016 13:51
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jivjov posted:
The troll response to his last post is to ask him if he's OK with it so long as people buy their own flags and don't burn his.
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Dec 2, 2016 16:00
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xergm posted:The troll response to his last post is to ask him if he's OK with it so long as people buy their own flags and don't burn his. That actually was the tone of my next comment:  Sadly, after that 3rd person jumped in, he stopped responding.
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Dec 2, 2016 16:14
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So is there a good and comprehensive thing I can link to, to debunk that insane Pizzagate conspiracy theory? It's now showing up on my timeline from one of my crazier friends - who went from Ron Paul to Sanders to Stein. More than snopes, which while good, is a lot more of the "you can't seriously believe this, can you?" variety.
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Dec 2, 2016 16:50
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quote:That’s what I fricking do every day to get to work so I can provide for my family and pay HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN FRICKING TAXES EVERY YEAR TO A CORRUPT GOVERNMENT If this guy pays hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes every year, he must be making millions of dollars a year. At this point it seems disingenuous to claim it's "providing for your family" which would imply you're struggling to pay bills like a common working man. (The real answer is this guy has no idea how taxes work.)
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Dec 2, 2016 16:56
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dwarf74 posted:So is there a good and comprehensive thing I can link to, to debunk that insane Pizzagate conspiracy theory? It's now showing up on my timeline from one of my crazier friends - who went from Ron Paul to Sanders to Stein. You can't reason someone out of a position they never reasoned themselves into. Just let them run wild with it because you can't stop it.
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Dec 2, 2016 17:36
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Rick_Hunter posted:You can't reason someone out of a position they never reasoned themselves into. Just let them run wild with it because you can't stop it. I've already been called a "sheep", though, for arguing that Pizzagate isn't some kind of conspiracy false flag, where it's not true, and its obvious purpose is to discredit 'alternative news outlets' that buy into it.
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Dec 2, 2016 17:48
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:As a veteran, I'm taking this opportunity to give you all permission to burn the flag.
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Dec 2, 2016 19:14
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Same. Congrats BTW coyo7e. There's legitimately a procedure and process for it.
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Dec 2, 2016 19:31
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Conservatives don't actually give a single poo poo about veterans. They're a convenient talking point. They also believe themselves to be real America where everybody that disagrees with them is bad, unAmerican, and wants to destroy the nation. Therefore if you're burning a flag you are disrespecting them and by extension America and by extension everybody that bled or died for America. Because those people fought and died for you and your freedoms you should respect them. I suspect it's another form of exceptionalism and power fantasy, this fetishization of veterans and firefighters and police as a response to nebulous threats from Islam. Conservatives also loving LOVE Native American cultural stuff. They love the fashion, they love the art, the love the jewelry, they love vacationing in places where natives used to live.. But they sure don't like when they get uppity and stop real americans from just doing an honest day's work laying pipe, to receive an honest day's pay, and they sure aren't gonna be visiting the rez (except when they roll up to the casino in their bigass RV that gets 2 mpg)
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Dec 2, 2016 19:35
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The Boy Scouts are a fascist organization. If Trump made being a Boy Scout illegal it would be a legitimately good thing. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 2, 2016 19:35
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Shbobdb posted:The Boy Scouts are a fascist organization. If Trump made being a Boy Scout illegal it would be a legitimately good thing. https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scouting.org%2Ffilestore%2FMerit_Badge_ReqandRes%2FSustainability.pdf Also once you're a boy scout you're always a boy scout, you can't just stop being one. Again, it's very like the military in that regard.
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Dec 2, 2016 19:41
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Boyscouts are the original MRAs, preserving a masculine past in the feminized future of the 20th century 
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Dec 2, 2016 19:48
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dwarf74 posted:So is there a good and comprehensive thing I can link to, to debunk that insane Pizzagate conspiracy theory? It's now showing up on my timeline from one of my crazier friends - who went from Ron Paul to Sanders to Stein. belief in the theory hinges on the idea that any evidence or common sense that contradicts it is part of the cover-up or "just what they want you to think!" so in short, no
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Dec 2, 2016 19:58
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JVNO posted:Boyscouts are the original MRAs, preserving a masculine past in the feminized future of the 20th century https://www.meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/American_Cultures quote:Choose THREE groups that have different racial, cultural, national, or ethnic backgrounds, one of which comes from your own background. Use these groups to meet requirements 1, 2, and 3.
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Dec 2, 2016 19:59
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Shbobdb posted:The Boy Scouts are a fascist organization. If Trump made being a Boy Scout illegal it would be a legitimately good thing. K
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Dec 2, 2016 20:06
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Goy Scouts
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Dec 2, 2016 20:57
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BONGHITZ posted:Goy Scouts
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Dec 2, 2016 21:21
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Bizarro Kanyon posted:I had a guy tell me that the first amendment only exists because soldiers died for it. Which soldiers? What was the last war someone died in to protect our "freedoms"? Was Saddam about to take away our freedom of speech? Was Vietnam about to quarter soldiers in our homes without our permission? I mean on the most basic of levels the "freedom to protest" is the freedom America was based on and, as this shows, it's most important to preserve our freedom to protest because that's the freedom they will try to take away, no one is trying to take away your freedom to sit quietly and go with the flow even if you disagree with it. "We need our guns in case the government tries to take them, but HOW DARE YOU tell the government you're mad at it???"
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Dec 2, 2016 23:50
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