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steinrokkan posted:Right. Conservatives are programmed to hate "punishing success" and "acting entitled". But surely they can be made to support a punishment for unfairness and exploitation, especially when they themselves are victims. However, this would require a politician capable of calling out the billionaire class out for what they really are, instead of trying to stand up for them and treating them as Gods among men. We do, Bernie. Crowsbeak has issued a correction as of 17:23 on Dec 2, 2016 |
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Dec 2, 2016 16:06
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steinrokkan posted:Even the authoritarians hate the corporations' and banks' guts. They love it when Trump embarrasses them. What they want is somebody to bring them down because of immoral conduct, they sure as hell don't want somebody kissing up to the same wealthy elites and feebly asking them for additional contributions to the budget. 
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Dec 2, 2016 16:06
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this looks suspiciously like hotlinking
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Dec 2, 2016 16:06
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Ok so what are the chances of the electoral college loving over Trump? Nobody else seems to be talking about it so I'm guessing the answer is "less than zero" but I thought I'd ask anyway. This whole has been loving Bizarro World so I feel like anything could happen. I mean, that sort of thing is exactly why the electoral college exists in the first place, right?
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Dec 2, 2016 16:07
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gah my TABLES!!!
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Dec 2, 2016 16:07
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Elephant Ambush posted:Ok so what are the chances of the electoral college loving over Trump? Nobody else seems to be talking about it so I'm guessing the answer is "less than zero" but I thought I'd ask anyway. This whole has been loving Bizarro World so I feel like anything could happen. it's a constitutional rubber stamp, death is certain
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Dec 2, 2016 16:08
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:you say that, but what's happening right now is a fractal And precisely because Trump is betraying his own promises, there needs to be a strong Democratic leader with charisma to punish him for it ASAP, and hijack the anti-establishment discourse.
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Dec 2, 2016 16:10
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steinrokkan posted:And precisely because Trump is betraying his own promises, there needs to be a strong Democratic leader with charisma to punish him for it ASAP, and hijack the anti-establishment discourse. Relax, Chuck Schumer is on the case 
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Dec 2, 2016 16:11
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steinrokkan posted:or talking exclusively about "free stuff" while entirely omitting the culpability of the elites and the need to bring them to justice from the equation - that is an entirely ineffectual discourse. E.g., promising free college won't sway over somebody who doesn't value college education. shame the democratic party is set up in such a way that you need to have a literal ten-thousand-dollar buy in to get into the old boys clubs that comprise it or scream loudly and angrily enough and then just run as an independent when you're constantly refused, like bernie. considering the democratic party is in the process of being owned, there's a nonzero chance they learn their lesson about newcomers who would actually do things that don't have money and are thus not beholden to wall street while the republican party is okay with taking any random hobo and dressing him up and bribing him to do things that kill off other hobos when he takes office.  e: 13th edit so far, my brain is pulsing in pain right now Anime Schoolgirl has issued a correction as of 16:18 on Dec 2, 2016 |
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Dec 2, 2016 16:11
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Catching up on this thread, just wanna say the boss commercial did in fact rule and we needed it to get played all over the place, and also the constant appeals to politifact were yet another manifestation of "you'd see I'm right if you just do the research yourself, I'm not gonna back that up right now, just look at some websites on your own time" like HRC did with her platform
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Dec 2, 2016 16:25
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HannibalBarca posted:Yeah, exactly. There are shades of grey in everything. Joe Blow who "hates lawyers" probably doesn't care if you make 40,000 a year doing indigent defense or an obscene amount of money doing corporate mergers. He just hates you. That's the legal profession's fault. Decades of being called the worst people of earth and the response is silence. It's my opinion that the legal profession should get together and hire a drat PR firm to improve their image. If people hate lawyers, they're not gonna vote for them. It's no coincidence that fewer lawyers are in congress now than ever before. But the profession can't even fight legalzoom so whatever. Silicon Valley is gonna take over the whole business while the Baby Boomers in charge sleep through the remainder of their careers.
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Dec 2, 2016 16:26
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https://twitter.com/MattGrossmann/status/804698717265739776 *sad trombone*
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Dec 2, 2016 16:29
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How much longer until all of the votes are done being counted?
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Dec 2, 2016 16:29
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Seems like a lot of our messaging problems could be fixed by letting the unions have a bigger say in the party.
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Dec 2, 2016 16:40
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I personally don't think that dropping all of the "Donald trump is being lovely to people" commercials would have been the needed. Reading interviews with people who voted trump for economic reasons they were clearly very put off by a lot of the discriminatory things he said but it was either vote for a person who says lovely things sometimes and at least acts like he cares about them or a person who doesn't even care enough to make a stop in their community. Obviously making 90% of your ads about how trump says lovely things is not going to be effective but I don't think they should have disappeared completely.
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Dec 2, 2016 16:55
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comingafteryouall posted:Seems like a lot of our messaging problems could be fixed by letting the unions have a bigger say in the party. naw they're happy to appease us by offering us the status quo (things won't get worse!) in exchange for our literal souls
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Dec 2, 2016 16:55
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Daniel Hillard posted:I personally don't think that dropping all of the "Donald trump is being lovely to people" commercials would have been the needed. Reading interviews with people who voted trump for economic reasons they were clearly very put off by a lot of the discriminatory things he said but it was either vote for a person who says lovely things sometimes and at least acts like he cares about them or a person who doesn't even care enough to make a stop in their community. Obviously making 90% of your ads about how trump says lovely things is not going to be effective but I don't think they should have disappeared completely. One problem is that Trump lies so much that even his most rabid supporters took notice and hand-waved it as "oh, he isn't really going to do all that crazy stuff he said!". Like, they literally voted for a man that they know is a pathological liar and just don't care. How do you campaign against that mentality?
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Dec 2, 2016 17:04
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Elephant Ambush posted:Ok so what are the chances of the electoral college loving over Trump? Nobody else seems to be talking about it so I'm guessing the answer is "less than zero" but I thought I'd ask anyway. This whole has been loving Bizarro World so I feel like anything could happen. Virtually none. It'd take dozens of deep cover infiltrators in the Trump camp just to be appointed delegates in case he wins, or dozens of people Trump's campaign picked themselves to go cast ballots for him suddenly going "I'm with Her!" and casting for Hillary instead.
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Dec 2, 2016 17:06
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lol you can't and its gonna be trumps for the next 24 years lmao vvvv and yeah. holy poo poo ya hosed the WWC.
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Dec 2, 2016 17:06
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WarMECH posted:One problem is that Trump lies so much that even his most rabid supporters took notice and hand-waved it as "oh, he isn't really going to do all that crazy stuff he said!". Like, they literally voted for a man that they know is a pathological liar and just don't care. How do you campaign against that mentality? by not making them that desperate in the first place
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Dec 2, 2016 17:06
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WarMECH posted:One problem is that Trump lies so much that even his most rabid supporters took notice and hand-waved it as "oh, he isn't really going to do all that crazy stuff he said!". Like, they literally voted for a man that they know is a pathological liar and just don't care. How do you campaign against that mentality? lol bing bong so simple u just need more progressive purity and a more progressive platform and better optics and more positive messaging and better outreach and don't trust the numbers but trust the numbers and don't lie and be a more trustworthy candi *gets schlonged by dipshit c-list reality tv star and proud pathological liar in GE*
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Dec 2, 2016 17:08
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people want dignified work (dignified among their social class, not among liberal coastal elites) with decent pay and benefits and they understand that while their relationship with the company that employs them is fundamentally antagonistic they still need that company to not go out of business and while they may want to eat the rich on wallstreet they probably dont want to eat some guy who owns a local business even if he is a dick to his employees if only there was some way of organizing society so that everyone could work to the best of their ability while receiving an equitable share of the wealth produced by their labor...
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Dec 2, 2016 17:08
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Oh Snapple! posted:by not making them that desperate in the first place What do you mean?
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Dec 2, 2016 17:08
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Louisgod posted:What do you mean? telling labor to go gently caress itself so you could cozy up to the affluent was not a good idea
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Dec 2, 2016 17:09
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WarMECH posted:One problem is that Trump lies so much that even his most rabid supporters took notice and hand-waved it as "oh, he isn't really going to do all that crazy stuff he said!". Like, they literally voted for a man that they know is a pathological liar and just don't care. How do you campaign against that mentality? Run someone who scores high on the trustworthy meter. If one candidate is perceived to be a lying rear end in a top hat and the other candidate is someone you disagree with but is a person of conviction, that goes a long way towards neutralizing Trump.
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Dec 2, 2016 17:10
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Donald being a liar matters less when you remember that they're all liars
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Dec 2, 2016 17:11
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Oh Snapple! posted:telling labor to go gently caress itself so you could cozy up to the affluent was not a good idea I was going to respond with "you really think that'd make a difference?" but knowing that key states were only lost by like 20k votes makes me think that yeah, it would've made a difference. Hillary Campaign Was Bad
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Dec 2, 2016 17:12
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Daniel Hillard posted:I personally don't think that dropping all of the "Donald trump is being lovely to people" commercials would have been the needed. Reading interviews with people who voted trump for economic reasons they were clearly very put off by a lot of the discriminatory things he said but it was either vote for a person who says lovely things sometimes and at least acts like he cares about them or a person who doesn't even care enough to make a stop in their community. Obviously making 90% of your ads about how trump says lovely things is not going to be effective but I don't think they should have disappeared completely. You gotta run both, the first to make them not want to vote Trump, and the second to undermine the reasons they DO want to vote Trump. Just adding more stuff to the bad pile is never gonna counteract the goods, which weigh more - you gotta attack his strengths too and make him weak enough his weaknesses can bring him down when they are attacked as well
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Dec 2, 2016 17:13
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Alter Ego posted:Run someone who scores high on the trustworthy meter. If one candidate is perceived to be a lying rear end in a top hat and the other candidate is someone you disagree with but is a person of conviction, that goes a long way towards neutralizing Trump. Actually you are right. I had some conservative friends say they hated Bernie for his politics but respected him more than Lyin' Crooked Hillary because they believed he was telling (mostly) the truth.
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Dec 2, 2016 17:13
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Alter Ego posted:Run someone who scores high on the trustworthy meter. If one candidate is perceived to be a lying rear end in a top hat and the other candidate is someone you disagree with but is a person of conviction, that goes a long way towards neutralizing Trump. 
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Dec 2, 2016 17:15
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No, because he never left us. 
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Dec 2, 2016 17:20
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CheesyDog posted:Donald being a liar matters less when you remember that they're all liars I know everyone honestly believes that "lol nothing matters", but I believe that a large part of 2016 was Hillary Clinton's unique weaknesses as a candidate. Yes, she was uninspiring and a lousy campaigner, but if those were her only problems she'd have beaten Trump easily. She had a history of duplicity and a tendency to suck up to the wrong people, as well as an unfortunate tendency to go hyper-negative against challenges from the left. I think that the right candidate--someone who can make the case that we can have both economic AND social justice at the same time, and make it convincingly--can make voters realize that you don't have to vote for the shitbag candidate just because the system is broken. I don't know who this person is, but I think they are out there. I realize this makes me sound naive, but I have to have some hope for 2018 and beyond. My fear is that the science of polling is completely unreliable now. How are we supposed to look at any indicators prior to an election and trust them? How are people supposed to look at prognostications of any type? I realize that this only puts people like Nate Silver out of business, but still... Fritz Coldcockin has issued a correction as of 17:23 on Dec 2, 2016 |
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Dec 2, 2016 17:21
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OAquinas posted:No, because he never left us. trump gonna give him a state funeral
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Dec 2, 2016 17:23
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Dec 2, 2016 17:24
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I thought Bernie's minority outreach consisting of using Killer Mike to shill for him was pretty transparent and rang hollow. Not to mention most Run the Jewels fans are affluent white college kids.
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Dec 2, 2016 17:25
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Baloogan you should check out that guy charlie angus if you actually wanna make canada great again
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Dec 2, 2016 17:26
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same with the guy with the gap teeth in your mouth so my dick's gots to fit
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Dec 2, 2016 17:26
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Fiction posted:Baloogan you should check out that guy charlie angus if you actually wanna make canada great again naw im now atm brainstorming ways to stop trumpism up here lamo
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Dec 2, 2016 17:27
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fits my needs posted:I thought Bernie's minority outreach consisting of using Killer Mike to shill for him was pretty transparent and rang hollow. Not to mention most Run the Jewels fans are affluent white college kids. Trying to figure out what this post is in response to other than "the existence of progressives", comin up short so far
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Dec 2, 2016 17:28
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Baloogan posted:naw im now atm brainstorming ways to stop trumpism up here lamo No he's NDP. Also good luck with that hahaha
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Dec 2, 2016 17:28
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