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Calaveron posted:So I don't understand, they delayed the game six weeks so there wouldn't be a day one patch, and then there's a massive 9 gig day one patch that is mostly poo poo nobody could actually care about sprinkled with actual gameplay adjustments. Please correct me if I'm wrong because I'm mad I can't play the stupid game I bought yet because my internet sucks gently caress the patch, play the game
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Dec 3, 2016 05:27
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Calaveron posted:So I don't understand, they delayed the game six weeks so there wouldn't be a day one patch, and then there's a massive 9 gig day one patch that is mostly poo poo nobody could actually care about sprinkled with actual gameplay adjustments. Please correct me if I'm wrong because I'm mad I can't play the stupid game I bought yet because my internet sucks The delay was to fix massive issues with the game so there wouldn't need to be a day one patch to rectify that. The day one patch adds a bunch of QoL adjustments and adds some shoehorned cutscenes in in an attempt to unfuck the plot. You dont, strictly, need it to play the game and you can patch later while you sleep.
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Dec 3, 2016 05:28
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aegof posted:I wonder how many of ff13's twists were just Vanille lying to to people because it was easier or to make them feel better. A lot of them. Vanille is basically the center of almost all of the game's plot twists.
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Dec 3, 2016 05:28
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aegof posted:I wonder how many of ff13's twists were just Vanille lying to to people because it was easier or to make them feel better. Poor Bahkti, the only sidequest in the game and he's still just vanilles play thing.
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Dec 3, 2016 05:29
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Master Chief Collection's day 1 patch was 20 gigs Tony Hawk 5's day 1 patch was literally almost twice the size of the actual game
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Dec 3, 2016 05:30
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Yeah I looked up the patch notes before posting and I saw there's some stuff I infer is pretty vital (the way some abilities work and how information is conveyed via the UI) and then there's stuff like ADDED KINGSLAIVE CUTSCENES and I'm like I don't give a fuuuuuuuuuck if I gave a gently caress I woulda watched the stupid movie and I bet I probably know what makes up the vast majority of those 9 gbs of bloated internet data
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Dec 3, 2016 05:31
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mandatory lesbian posted:in FF2 GBA leon's face just has a slight shadow over it making it obvious who he is so i'm not sure if that was a twist in the original version or if it was just as plainly told to you He's just Dark Knight, I'm pretty sure Dawn of Souls was just a case of "the only official art of the Dark Knight shows his face as Leon, and it doesn't have a helmet design for us to convert into a portrait." afaik the helmet added to his sprite in the game was the crux of the Leon twist 
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Dec 3, 2016 05:36
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Calaveron posted:I bet I probably know what makes up the vast majority of those 9 gbs of bloated internet data You know it. Go forth and enjoy, I'm about to do the same myself.
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Dec 3, 2016 05:44
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Brother Entropy posted:V has very few twists, all i can really think of offhand are faris being lenna's sister and king tycoon being possessed by exdeath and that's all in act 1
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Dec 3, 2016 06:00
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Faris being female is also supposed to be a twist.
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Dec 3, 2016 08:51
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I think FFVI has very few actual 'plot twists'. There's Terra being an esper, and Kefka backstabbing Gestahl to become the final boss. I'd even say Kefka usurping Gestahl as the villain isn't that much of a twist, because he's clearly the most defined antagonist in the Vector Empire anyway. Everything else is kinda just minor wrinkles and turns in personal stories (Duncan's not dead after all!) rather than central to the plot. (EDIT: Or just awful things the Vector Empire are doing, but those are never built up to be anything else so they're not really twists either.) I... guess you could argue Celes' not-betrayal, but I'm still not sure if we're ever supposed to actually believe that one. My favorite plot twist, though, is XIII-2's ending, because it's explicitly not a plot twist. Noel and Serah are explicitly told what would happen, assume it's your standard JRPG endboss bullshit and do it anyway, and then it all happens exactly as they were told it would. Given those two were loving idiots all through that game, that ending was hilarious.
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Dec 3, 2016 08:57
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Cleretic posted:Kefka usurping Gestahl I was surprised in its execution honestly. It's the twist everyone saw coming, sure.
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Dec 3, 2016 09:01
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None of these things people are mentioning are plot twists. A plot twist radically alters the plot - twists it, if you will. Kefka being the real main villain isn't a plot twist, because he was a bad guy all along. Faris being a woman isn't a plot twist because it changes almost nothing. Cloud being a Sephiroth clone was a hell of a plot twist, even if it wasn't actually true, and the true story was an incredible twist on that as well.
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Dec 3, 2016 09:08
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Fister Roboto posted:None of these things people are mentioning are plot twists. A plot twist radically alters the plot - twists it, if you will. Kefka being the real main villain isn't a plot twist, because he was a bad guy all along. Faris being a woman isn't a plot twist because it changes almost nothing. Cloud being a Sephiroth clone was a hell of a plot twist, even if it wasn't actually true, and the true story was an incredible twist on that as well. Yeah. Tidus being a product of the Fayth was a real twist. And Seymour being a bad guy was kinda a tiny twist but not really. 8's entire story was an attempt to twist on a twist that just twisted up its own butt. And I say that as someone who likes 8. The intro to 12 and Basch's backstory involving Galbranth is also a bit of a twist, although its kinda clear something is up.
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Dec 3, 2016 10:13
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The big twist of XII is the Occuria, naturally. Apart from that, things are pretty straightforward.Cleretic posted:My favorite plot twist, though, is XIII-2's ending, because it's explicitly not a plot twist. Noel and Serah are explicitly told what would happen, assume it's your standard JRPG endboss bullshit and do it anyway, and then it all happens exactly as they were told it would. Given those two were loving idiots all through that game, that ending was hilarious. It is a proud XIII Protagonist tradition to do exactly what the villain wants you to do and just kinda hope things will somehow turn out okay. It worked for the XIII party so Serah was just trying to follow in their footsteps.
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Dec 3, 2016 10:19
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Final Fantasy 1 had a twist I didn't see coming. The random knight guy you killed at the start of the game and had completely forgotten about hours later is actually the main villain and you didn't kill him, he time travelled to the past and became a demon! What was the twist of 2? That the main villain, David Bowie, had taken over Hell and became the new Satan after you killed him? And 3's twist was that Xande was Kuja and Cloud of Darkness was Necron.
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Dec 3, 2016 12:22
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Mega64 posted:XCX was great until I unlocked Skell flight and thus could explore everything and thus lost all reason to further play the game. I guess I'm weird. I played 315 hours and didn't 100% the game. I got close tho. Debating going back but I have Ffxv to finish.
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Dec 3, 2016 14:34
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Cleretic posted:I think FFVI has very few actual 'plot twists'. There's Terra being an esper, and Kefka backstabbing Gestahl to become the final boss. I'd even say Kefka usurping Gestahl as the villain isn't that much of a twist, because he's clearly the most defined antagonist in the Vector Empire anyway. Everything else is kinda just minor wrinkles and turns in personal stories (Duncan's not dead after all!) rather than central to the plot. (EDIT: Or just awful things the Vector Empire are doing, but those are never built up to be anything else so they're not really twists either.) The world being destroyed halfway through the game was a huge deal back in the day (even though I think the US version included a map helpfully labeled 'World of Balance/Ruin'). Having the world destroyed mid-way through the game was utterly unheard of (which makes me wonder if there was a Shin Megami Tensei fan or two on the team) and really changed the rest of the game. Zaphod42 posted:The intro to 12 and Basch's backstory involving Galbranth is also a bit of a twist, although its kinda clear something is up. I was confused at first when I saw that bit. It took me a little to realise that, yes, they were going for a straightforward 'evil twin' plot with no sneakiness, so the straightforwardness of it ironically worked.
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Dec 3, 2016 14:58
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How are people talking about twists in here without a single mention of Tactics?
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Dec 3, 2016 15:25
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How are people talking about twists here and not bringing up Final Fantasy 15, which spent twenty three years in the making and yet still turned out to be loving garbage fire held together by booty shorts and gay porn?????
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Dec 3, 2016 15:30
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If you actually see Gladiolus's dick in the game, I will buy FF15, and a PS4 to play it on, today.
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Dec 3, 2016 15:52
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Gologle posted:How are people talking about twists here and not bringing up Final Fantasy 15, which spent twenty three years in the making and yet still turned out to be loving garbage fire held together by booty shorts and gay porn?????
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Dec 3, 2016 16:49
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God, I was running around and Prompto just started belting out the Chocobo Theme with lyrics. GotY.
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Dec 3, 2016 16:52
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The entire reason for the existence of Sin and fake Zanarkand was a pretty big twist for me. The fact that it was basically just a fantasy version of the Matrix, with Sin as its power source and the Fayth as its rendering farm, that the whole "spiral of death" was basically the result of a human turned into an immortal WMD so thoroughly that he was no longer even capable of thought or reason, that it all started as an attempt to fight back against an oppressor and preserve what they could of their way of life and ultimately turned into that... I don't know, that whole game had a lot more melancholy than the bright color palette would have you believe. It was all just really sad; millions doomed to have no future at all because a few people couldn't let go of the past.
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Dec 3, 2016 17:25
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Prompto is great. The chocobo theme, singing the victory fanfare, mid-battle selfies; he's a lot of fun.
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Dec 3, 2016 17:24
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I think I encountered a bug in FInal Fantasy XV. I can only Auto drive but the character who is doing the driving will only go in reverse and won't head for the destination and after restarting the console the controller will not work in game but will still do all the PS4 os stuff like open the share menu and what not.
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Dec 3, 2016 20:24
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Spergatory posted:The entire reason for the existence of Sin and fake Zanarkand was a pretty big twist for me. The fact that it was basically just a fantasy version of the Matrix, with Sin as its power source and the Fayth as its rendering farm, that the whole "spiral of death" was basically the result of a human turned into an immortal WMD so thoroughly that he was no longer even capable of thought or reason, that it all started as an attempt to fight back against an oppressor and preserve what they could of their way of life and ultimately turned into that... I don't know, that whole game had a lot more melancholy than the bright color palette would have you believe. It was all just really sad; millions doomed to have no future at all because a few people couldn't let go of the past. X was very bittersweet and has as much to do with death as 7 did. The music could be really somber at times, and some scenes like Yuna sending all the spirits of the dead off to the farplane were both beautiful and kinda haunting. And then the ending where Yuna has to sacrifice her own life to stop Sin, and the only way to prevent that from happening is for Tidus to completely unmake himself from existence, that's tragic. And Auron being someone who was already dead and knows it, etc. Lots of melancholy in that game.
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Dec 3, 2016 21:02
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X has a really wonderful story, and the whole thing hinges on Auron in a pretty beautiful way. It's a story of how inseparable we are from our fathers, but also that forcing yourself away from tradition is the only way to be truly free. Traditionally (as far as I can tell) it seems like Summoner/Guardian is a pair for the pilgrimage. They travel together and meet their ends together in the summoner sacrifice and the guardian becoming the new Sin. Think about how Auron's two pilgrimages mirror one another. In the first, he gets Jecht dropped in and the three of them do the whole thing the traditional way, only with three instead of two there's a survivor. Auron sees the end game, sees each Calm ending sooner than the previous one. If Jecht doesn't show up, Auron becomes the new Sin and the cycle never breaks. In Tidus/Yuna's story, we literally follow in the footsteps of Jecht/Braska (which makes sense, it's a pilgrimage) all the way to the final confrontation. Along the way Tidus learns about his father, why he is the way he is, and why he makes the decision he eventually does. It's no doubt the same decision Tidus would make at the end of the game were it not for Auron (and Sin) leading them to the conclusion that the cycle had to be broken. The story sells itself as this grand romance between Tidus and Yuna and the power of their love leading him to sacrifice himself over her. When I played the game at 20 years old, that's the way it read to me. But it's actually the story of a boy becoming a man, facing down his relationship with his father, and eventually coming to understand how difficult and complicated that love can be. And he comes to all of this because Jecht (his actual father) actively forces his hand and Auron (his surrogate father) was there for both of their pilgrimages. Playing through the game a decade later, as a father, it shocked me how well-constructed the story was, thematically. You could argue the only fathering we see Jecht do the entire game is attack a beach and wipe out an army. And it turns out to be super effective. The more you consider the Jecht/Braska/Auron trio as being a direct parallel to the Tidus/Yuna/Auron trio, the more interesting the game becomes. Tidus is VERY MUCH his father's son. The only sour note the game really hits is with Tidus' mom, who barely gets mentioned outside of being another thing Jecht took from him. I guess Tidus was young when she died so his memory is understandably fuzzy, but she unfortunately gets lumped in with a lot of more story-important grievances and doesn't really exist. In the end, it's just a story about dads so the dads get all the attention.
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Dec 3, 2016 21:40
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There's also Yuna's relationship with her father, kinda a foil to Tidus, in that while Tidus kinda resents his old man (although grows to understand him) and rebels against the idea of him initially, Yuna practically worships her father (as does their society) and struggles under the weight of trying to live up to his expectations for her and fill his legendary shoes. Like I've said before, FFX basically takes the themes from FF8 but then does them way better, in a way that works and has a satisfying ending. FF8 also spent a lot of time on Squall-Laguna and that father/son relationship and also had a strong romance between Squall and Rinoa like Tidus and Yuna. But in 8 its just a mess of a narrative while in X it works really well.
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Dec 3, 2016 21:53
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Huxley posted:The only sour note the game really hits is with Tidus' mom, who barely gets mentioned outside of being another thing Jecht took from him. I guess Tidus was young when she died so his memory is understandably fuzzy, but she unfortunately gets lumped in with a lot of more story-important grievances and doesn't really exist. In the end, it's just a story about dads so the dads get all the attention. Moms Are Bad is a semi-important aspect of X. You covered Tidus' mom but then there is also Seymour's mom. Also none of these moms have names whereas every father does. Zaphod42 posted:There's also Yuna's relationship with her father, kinda a foil to Tidus, in that while Tidus kinda resents his old man (although grows to understand him) and rebels against the idea of him initially, Yuna practically worships her father (as does their society) and struggles under the weight of trying to live up to his expectations for her and fill his legendary shoes. That's a pretty interesting perspective I never considered. I mean, I figured out Laguna was Squall's dad in my first playthrough (thank you Kiros and Ward on the Ragnarok) but it's never really made an issue. It's jus tkind of a background fact and I have no idea when you're supposed to go "oh, they're father and son!" Squall and Laguna are a nice study in contrast but this doesn't really have any effect on the story or even their own characters. I'll say it again, if Adel had been the Big Bad and Ultimecia's BS was cut from the game, everything would have been so much more cohesive and interesting and that includes Squall's and Laguna's relationship. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Dec 3, 2016 |
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Dec 3, 2016 22:00
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X's theme about death was nice and all but it got kind of lost on me when everyone who died just kept on living. Auron even aged after dying, how does that work?
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Dec 3, 2016 22:15
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Krad posted:X's theme about death was nice and all but it got kind of lost on me when everyone who died just kept on living. Auron even aged after dying, how does that work? That always struck me as being sort of the point, too. Spira is absolutely aclog with ghosts and revenants, things that refuse to pass on, and the worst of it all is Yu Yevon and his religion - a mindless parasite caught up in an endless cycle of repetition whose followers deliberately keep the world locked in miserable stasis for their own gain. The conclusion of FFX finally banishes all of that and allows the world to move forward.
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Dec 3, 2016 22:18
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Krad posted:X's theme about death was nice and all but it got kind of lost on me when everyone who died just kept on living. Auron even aged after dying, how does that work? Well you can alter your appearance once you're an Unsent. You're not flesh-and-blood so you can do practically anything. Auron probably figured Tidus would notice that he looking the exact same for a decade so he had to use his undead spirit mojo to hide this fact.
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Dec 3, 2016 22:20
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Auron knew he had no clout at all as a young dork of a monk and knew his only hope was to become a grizzled ronin.
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Dec 3, 2016 22:23
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Oxxidation posted:That always struck me as being sort of the point, too. Spira is absolutely aclog with ghosts and revenants, things that refuse to pass on, and the worst of it all is Yu Yevon and his religion - a mindless parasite caught up in an endless cycle of repetition whose followers deliberately keep the world locked in miserable stasis for their own gain. The conclusion of FFX finally banishes all of that and allows the world to move forward. Yeah there's a lot of people I've met online who seem to agree with Seymour and the Maesters. "Enlightened rule by the dead is preferable to the misguided failures of the living." Auron highlights all this in the most un-subtle scene of all time when he explains the Spiral of Death and how death permeates every aspect of life in Spira. But people are like "but you just lose your body and gain immortality and magic powers! Sounds like the best thing ever to me."
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Dec 3, 2016 22:32
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Krad posted:X's theme about death was nice and all but it got kind of lost on me when everyone who died just kept on living. Auron even aged after dying, how does that work? He was a zombie that just didn't quite look it. If he hung around too long he'd turn into a full on monster. It was a major plot point that people like Yuna have to send your soul to
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Dec 3, 2016 22:37
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NikkolasKing posted:Yeah there's a lot of people I've met online who seem to agree with Seymour and the Maesters. But enough about Christianity.
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Dec 3, 2016 23:14
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I kinda want to give some of my own praise to FFX now. "It's a religion in a JRPG so of course it's evil" is a cliche/joke nowadays but I think Yevon was fairly well-written and nuanced. Bad guys they might have been but they were believable bad guys who honestly did think they were helping Spira. If you go chat up Maechen at the end on Gagazet, it really all falls into place that Bevelle was doing the best they could to try and save as many lives as they could. X-2 is a silly game but one reason I love it as a sequel to X is because Spira is one of the few FF worlds that really needed a sequel to see how things developed. A thousand years of theocracy is suddenly swept away, naturally things are gonna be unstable. Spira post-Yevon is pretty neat to contrast with Spira during FFX.
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Dec 3, 2016 23:25
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If X had better VA and a better end game, it would be a close call for favorite just because the story and battle system are really neat. Maybe not perfectly executed but pretty close.
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Dec 3, 2016 23:31
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NikkolasKing posted:I kinda want to give some of my own praise to FFX now. That's basically why I was unsurprised when X-2 was announced. Spira actually felt like a world, with its own religion (one not obviously based on Judeo-Christian trappings, I mean), its own customs and so on. If 9 was a culmination of everything the series had to that point, 10 felt like a whole new direction and identity for the series as a whole.
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Dec 3, 2016 23:55
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