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Guy Goodbody posted:And when people said "There's something about her, I just don't like her or trust her" that was also sexist because people have been saying that about Clinton for her entire career. tbf this poo poo has been following her her entire career and it's super annoying. if only she had more charisma than a doorknob
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Dec 3, 2016 10:10
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Yinlock posted:tbf this poo poo has been following her her entire career and it's super annoying. she does, she just never shows it. its weird. i think she tried to thread the needle too hard or listened to too many people using focus tested info or something
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Dec 3, 2016 10:32
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anime was right posted:she does, she just never shows it. its weird. i think she tried to thread the needle too hard or listened to too many people using focus tested info or something go watch interviews of her when she isn't running for something. 2008-2012. She comes off amazing. Snappy and affable, just a little goofy in a mom way, just really endearing. I don't know if it's the focus grouping yes men that tell her to act that way or if half a century of bullshit scandals have just made it so that she ices over when she faces any kind of question that might go badly for her, but she can't do it while she's under any kind of scrutiny.
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Dec 3, 2016 10:49
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Yinlock posted:tbf this poo poo has been following her her entire career and it's super annoying. at this point, i dont give a drat about the negatives. clinton could have gotten rich off cattle futures, and personally shot vince foster and vilerat in the heads, but none if it would matter if she could build a movement around a core message. keith ellison can be a muslim brotherhood plant and could have vouched to have punched yakub in his ghost face after a DMT trip, and it wont matter if he can build a working class movement that can empower workers of many backgrounds
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Dec 3, 2016 12:08
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https://twitter.com/tanehisicoates/status/804404094559547393
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Dec 3, 2016 13:06
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logikv9 posted:I honestly thought we were going to have that joint-chair situation with Dean and Ellison but I guess that's gone now. its Ellison or bust 
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Dec 3, 2016 13:16
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theyre deploying the big guns against ellison atm with this adl stuff
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Dec 3, 2016 13:18
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:theyre deploying the big guns against ellison atm with this adl stuff lmbo if thats the best they got
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Dec 3, 2016 13:19
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logikv9 posted:I honestly thought we were going to have that joint-chair situation with Dean and Ellison but I guess that's gone now. ppl thought a lot o wrong things this year
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Dec 3, 2016 13:19
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idk can the dems really come up a platform that combines "you have the right to not get hosed by the big corporations" and "you have the right to not get murdered by racist cops" hm that's a tough one
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Dec 3, 2016 13:21
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Rand alPaul posted:I have a friend on facebook who is a staffer and has all these photos of her with HIllary so I get to see what the former rank-and-file foot soldiers think. There was a guy who legit said that Trump was destined to win because 8 years of any party in the White House usually gives it to the opposite party, and he was even congratulating Hillary on coming this close to winning despite the overwhelming odds. i have this theory too. but also hillary was a bad candidate.
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Dec 3, 2016 13:34
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The gently caress is a Mega Charizard?
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Dec 3, 2016 14:20
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Man, for the first time since he was in the running, I'm conflicted about Ellison as DNC Chair. Just out of selfishness because I don't want him to stop being my Congressman.
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Dec 3, 2016 14:25
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Bear Retrieval Unit posted:The gently caress is a Mega Charizard? It is a Pokemon that is a fire type and it is my friend. It is strong and courageous.
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Dec 3, 2016 15:05
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Bear Retrieval Unit posted:The gently caress is a Mega Charizard? its like a charizard but plus 1 super charizard
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Dec 3, 2016 15:11
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As the kids say, this thread: https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/805052552551268353
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Dec 3, 2016 15:40
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deadgoon posted:idk can the dems really come up a platform that combines "you have the right to not get hosed by the big corporations" and "you have the right to not get murdered by racist cops" hm that's a tough one Maybe Trump will institute privatized police wearing like golden judge dredd armor with a giant "T" on it then we get both at once for free
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Dec 3, 2016 15:53
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man when he's saying it i hope people loving listen
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Dec 3, 2016 16:00
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Joementum posted:As the kids say, this thread: why the gently caress didn't he run for president
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Dec 3, 2016 16:05
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deadgoon posted:why the gently caress didn't he run for president Obama?
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Dec 3, 2016 16:23
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Aurubin posted:So is the party actually getting out of the way for Ellison or is the factionalism just not clearly defined? I'm curious if the media hit pieces about him are the last gasp or is the old guard getting ready to selfsabotage a la UK Labour. WE BREXITED SO LET'S BLAME CORBYN! The logic of a winning party. The party leadership is super obviously pushing Ellison. There are a few dissenters here and there, but it's such an easy way of bringing the Sanders wing back in line that the old guard just can't resist. The catch is just that the DNC head isn't that powerful. He'll be in a job where he has little influence on policy or platform discussion, requires the constant support of the established party leadership to get anything done, and will be in a position where he can't realistically just tell ideologically impure purple Dems to get hosed. Also, hes being chosen specifically to appeal to a particular wing of the party, in spite of concerns about his ability to do the job, even though the Dems face a real tough electoral map in 2018. If you want to know where I see the Ellison pick leading to, look at Michael Steele, whose short tenure as RNC head essentially destroyed his political career. Every time he picked a fight, the party leadership refused to back him, which led to him being humiliated and defeated, often publicly.
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Dec 3, 2016 16:23
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I attended my local Democratic party meeting recently in my swing state. Unlike some of yall, it was extremely well attended and organized, and a diverse group of people. There was no coastal liberal backpatting, nobody spoke highly of the Hilary campaign and everyone who spoke to it understood Hillary ignored and lost the working class, and they have to be won back. The Bernie contingent is really strong here, and the local leadership is going to demand Bernie folks be included at state and national levels. I feel pretty optimistic locally at least, people seem to Get It without devolving into violent recriminations.
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Dec 3, 2016 16:33
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Fulchrum posted:So going forward we need to get down on our hands and loving knees and start sucking that coal dick? Honestly, I thought I was jumping in on some joke posts. In response to that, though, you have to admit that framing it as "getting rid of jobs" was easily the one of the worst unforced errors in the whole campaign. Even if you're trying to make PMCs illegal, the last thing you want to say is that it's getting rid of jobs. The only people who that message resonated with were the contemptable liberals that sneer at everyone and everything below a certain socioeconomic threshold. It's really eblematic of everything wrong with her strategy and great example of just how bad she was as a candidate. MizPiz has issued a correction as of 16:40 on Dec 3, 2016 |
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Dec 3, 2016 16:37
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Main Paineframe posted:The party leadership is super obviously pushing Ellison. There are a few dissenters here and there, but it's such an easy way of bringing the Sanders wing back in line that the old guard just can't resist. This is what I fear. I don't think the Democratic leadership actually gives a poo poo about the left wing, and they're trying to gently caress us again.
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Dec 3, 2016 17:22
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Pollyanna posted:This is what I fear. I don't think the Democratic leadership actually gives a poo poo about the left wing, and they're trying to gently caress us again. this should be the assumption of any interaction with the democrats
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Dec 3, 2016 17:29
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MizPiz posted:In response to that, though, you have to admit that framing it as "getting rid of jobs" was easily the one of the worst unforced errors in the whole campaign. Even if you're trying to make PMCs illegal, the last thing you want to say is that it's getting rid of jobs. The only people who that message resonated with were the contemptable liberals that sneer at everyone and everything below a certain socioeconomic threshold. It's really eblematic of everything wrong with her strategy and great example of just how bad she was as a candidate. Yeah, it's kind of a lovely situation (since a horrible dangerous industry that really needs to die is also the only source of a half-decent wage in some parts of the country) but HAHAHA gently caress YOU COAL MINERS (ps job training green energy maybe) was so not the right approach. Which, of course, isn't what she actually said (I think), but it's definitely the message that came across. I remember all the posting about how West Virginia Democrats HAAAAAAAAAAATED Hillary because of the coal thing and how we should just write them off as an anomaly, and, god we (I say we, I had nothing to do with the campaign except as a voter) just ignored every drat warning sign there was, didn't we?
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Dec 3, 2016 17:53
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docbeard posted:Yeah, it's kind of a lovely situation (since a horrible dangerous industry that really needs to die is also the only source of a half-decent wage in some parts of the country) but HAHAHA gently caress YOU COAL MINERS (ps job training green energy maybe) was so not the right approach. Direct quote is, "we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out business." Honestly, if she even just stuck with coal companies it wouldn't have been as bad, but the fact coal miners were the foremost example makes it horrible.
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Dec 3, 2016 18:00
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:theyre deploying the big guns against ellison atm with this adl stuff man if schumer didn't give a flying gently caress about that poo poo will anyone else besides fishmechian die hards even bother
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Dec 3, 2016 18:16
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Pollyanna posted:This is what I fear. I don't think the Democratic leadership actually gives a poo poo about the left wing, and they're trying to gently caress us again. They're just trying to appease the Sanders wing without making any real policy concessions or changes beyond the platform changes they made before the election, so they're giving prominent Sanders folks (including Sanders himself) important-sounding leadership-ish positions...which have no power to dictate policy and mainly require them to support incumbent Democrats regardless of their ideological leanings.
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Dec 3, 2016 18:18
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MizPiz posted:Direct quote is, "we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out business." Hillary to Coal Miners: Drop Dead
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Dec 3, 2016 18:19
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Main Paineframe posted:They're just trying to appease the Sanders wing without making any real policy concessions or changes beyond the platform changes they made before the election, so they're giving prominent Sanders folks (including Sanders himself) important-sounding leadership-ish positions...which have no power to dictate policy and mainly require them to support incumbent Democrats regardless of their ideological leanings. Well, there definitely are people projecting their hopes and desires on the situation.
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Dec 3, 2016 18:20
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Well What Now posted:man if schumer didn't give a flying gently caress about that poo poo will anyone else besides fishmechian die hards even bother I don't think anyone buys the ADL's sudden flip-flop on Ellison Having a president who pals around with neo-Nazis is causing all sorts of chaos in the non-partisan pro-Israel organizations
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Dec 3, 2016 18:23
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Main Paineframe posted:I don't think anyone buys the ADL's sudden flip-flop on Ellison Isn't this an oxymoron? How can you be "pro-israel" without being partisan?
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Dec 3, 2016 18:31
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Powercrazy posted:Isn't this an oxymoron? How can you be "pro-israel" without being partisan? It's "nonpartisan" in the USA because both parties unequivocally support Israel
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Dec 3, 2016 18:38
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Main Paineframe posted:The party leadership is super obviously pushing Ellison. There are a few dissenters here and there, but it's such an easy way of bringing the Sanders wing back in line that the old guard just can't resist. i think this is largely true although i think it's a bit uncharitable. the democratic party knows it needs to bring sanders supporters back, and offering up the post of dnc - a post that a lot of people in sandersland are very concerned about - is, i think, a form of outreach by democratic leadership. some people are interpreting it as a "sanders takeover of the democratic party," which is false - we've always been a big tent party, and there's room for the left, the center-left, and the center. being a big-tent party doesn't mean you always have to pick from the center-left and the center, especially if the candidate from the left is more effective. but yes, i also think the dnc head isn't really a powerful position at all. it's fairly weak. yes, ellison isn't going to go after centrist dems. that's not his job at dnc. it's to get more democrats elected. i don't agree that it's going to be like michael steele. steele was bad at everything as rnc chair, and i expect ellison to be competent and push forward new programs to improve the dnc. he has good ideas and i think he'll be make a strong chair. Concerned Citizen has issued a correction as of 18:46 on Dec 3, 2016 |
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Dec 3, 2016 18:41
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Joementum posted:Well, there definitely are people projecting their hopes and desires on the situation. if they want to ratfuck their constituents again they do it upon risk of this country turning into Somalia or the best-case scenario they have no choice but to put an FDR-style strongman through
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Dec 3, 2016 18:42
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Main Paineframe posted:They're just trying to appease the Sanders wing without making any real policy concessions or changes beyond the platform changes they made before the election, so they're giving prominent Sanders folks (including Sanders himself) important-sounding leadership-ish positions...which have no power to dictate policy and mainly require them to support incumbent Democrats regardless of their ideological leanings. I'm worried about this too, actually. They made up a "leadership" post for Sanders which basically translates to "head of Democratic evangelism" without any formal responsibilities or power. They are largely deferring to him on things now, but I dunno how long that'll last. It's one of many reasons I'm glad he's essentially continuing to campaign -- the more "soft power" he has via his popularity and following, the more likely the party leaders are to do what he says. Powercrazy posted:Isn't this an oxymoron? How can you be "pro-israel" without being partisan? J Street is a thing It's basically a lobbying group for the Israeli left and bills itself as "pro-Israel and pro-peace". It has nowhere near the influence of AIPAC but it fills a seriously-needed niche for liberal/leftist American Jews who feel conflicted by Israel policy becoming a partisan issue (thanks largely to Bibi) e: for the record J Street is a very public Ellison proponent
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Dec 3, 2016 18:44
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Crowsbeak posted:Beyond getting rid of super delegates what other ways should the primary be reformed? More states need to have an open primary I think. In RI, I was a registered independent for years but thanks to the open primary I strolled in and voted Dem without any bullshit. My vote registered me for the Dem party. Surprise surprise, RI went 68% Bernie and has been a Dem stronghold in the north since forever.
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Dec 3, 2016 18:47
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anime was right posted:there shouldn't be a "firewall" of demographically similar states in huge chunks. the initial stage of the primary is actually a great way of doing it. 4 very different states. do chunks of 4-6 states from different parts of the country in waves. this seems like a policy specifically aimed at black voters? why?
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Dec 3, 2016 18:51
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Mr. Jive posted:More states need to have an open primary I think. In RI, I was a registered independent for years but thanks to the open primary I strolled in and voted Dem without any bullshit. My vote registered me for the Dem party. why does this forum have so many rhode islanders, it's weird
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Dec 3, 2016 18:53
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