Tatum Girlparts posted:

the progressive counter exists, and for the past few generations the people who functionally (and sometimes literally) own the places we're talking about have waged non-stop propaganda war on those solutions BASICALLY being Marx himself rising from the grave to gently caress your wife and shoot your dog. So how do we reach them without compromising those values or shifting to the right socially to draw them there?

Concerned Citizen posted:

Duh, of course. But the issue is coal jobs are going down anyway. One party actually cares and the other would replace them with automatons if they could.

Tatum Girlparts posted:

'just do it'

well poo poo ok

Fulchrum posted:

So I guess now bringing clean jobs and actively having a plan to save these communities by transitioning to a industry that will still be there tomorrow, is still indistinguishable to you from "I HATE YOU! HATE YOU ALL! FUUUUUUUUCK YOOOOOOOOUUUUU!"


She loving did, you moron! What they WANT, is the coal jobs back. That is the loving problem - it doesn't matter how good you make the offer of an alternative, they very clearly will just choose the guy who lies to them and tells them he'll bring coal back.

anime was right posted:

gently caress it, just use coal county as an experiment on universal basic income.

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

what democrats never do because nobody but coastal elites matter: "under their ownership, why have things not improved for you at all" drilled into their heads for ages

it's the original reason why a safety net started existing in europe, and employed more empathically right at the cusp of the great depression right before people in the good ole US of A started eating each other

Tatum Girlparts posted:

did you know we actually do that a ton? The answer from those people is always 'uh because the RED TAPE OF WASHINGTON is holding the market back' and poo poo and that's a message that works for their supporters.

steinrokkan posted:

You are just coming up with excuses that token efforts are the best the Democrats can ever do, and that they are not enough.

Yes, just do it is a viable motto if it actually demonstrably works for the other party which has been eroding your own bastions as surely as a loving river.

GlyphGryph posted:

If you do you gotta couple it with some sort of better alternative you are gonna fight for. Since the context of the speech has now been shared, we know she didnt, and only really stupid people would think she did.

comedyblissoption posted:

he's not really enthused. he just prefers a wildcard saying some isolationist stuff and is more dovish on russia instead of the guaranteed female kissinger as president.

anime was right posted:

gently caress it, just use coal county as an experiment on universal basic income.

Main Paineframe posted:

steinrokkan posted:

"Oh boy, the conservatives have managed to turn a large portion of the population into a rabid army defending their every step, better retreat and pretend these people don't exist, also do nothing to present a liberal alternative to this and market it as aggressively as the conservatives do their stuff"

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

ps the only reason why coal country/steel production existed is because FDR willed it to, which is why what ended up happening to those coal organizations is so loving

you could try protecting said workers from being fired at will so they could actually defy their bosses but "--oops-- that would upset the financial elite that backs us~"

steinrokkan posted:

"Oh boy, the conservatives have managed to turn a large portion of the population into a rabid army defending their every step, better retreat and pretend these people don't exist, also do nothing to present a liberal alternative to this and market it as aggressively as the conservatives do their stuff"

Tatum Girlparts posted:

Do you really believe people aren't fighting for worker rights in that area? The problem is every time you do you're met with 'well the coal baron that fuckin runs this town said he'll move to china or some poo poo if he can't fire people randomly as some kinda weird casino game, can't do that' and yea shockingly the people who rely on that poo poo get scared of that.

Tatum Girlparts posted:

literally who is saying 'better give up'. The issue is that it's a hell of a lot harder than some dude who's never been there just saying 'uh, do better, idiots ' and this actually isn't a new issue that The Demon Hillary invented or whatever

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

have the DNC grow some balls and literally hand out living wages to people who just got loving fired for political reasons? take some loving responsibility and actually use government power

Tatum Girlparts posted:

Do you really believe people aren't fighting for worker rights in that area? The problem is every time you do you're met with 'well the coal baron that fuckin runs this town said he'll move to china or some poo poo if he can't fire people randomly as some kinda weird casino game, can't do that' and yea shockingly the people who rely on that poo poo get scared of that.


literally who is saying 'better give up'. The issue is that it's a hell of a lot harder than some dude who's never been there just saying 'uh, do better, idiots ' and this actually isn't a new issue that The Demon Hillary invented or whatever

Darkman Fanpage posted:

hillary clinton is an idiot

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

have the DNC grow some balls and literally hand out living wages to people who just got loving fired for political reasons? take some loving responsibility and actually use government power

Tatum Girlparts posted:

what the gently caress are you even talking about at this point. What Democratic politician in, say, loving Kentucky, should be doing this?

steinrokkan posted:

Yeah, unfortunately I don't think this is even possible.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-rural-america-a-startling-prospect-voters-obama-lost-look-to-sanders/2015/10/04/5465ce22-6883-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html posted:

He shook his head under a camouflage hat that matched his camouflage UMWA T-shirt, and he described his fantasy of dumping nuclear waste in the yards of environmentalists, “if they think coal’s so bad.” He mulled over the mistake he says the UMWA made in 2008, when it endorsed Barack Obama over Hillary Rodham Clinton. Then he explained why he would probably be voting for Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) in the next Democratic primary.

“For one thing, he knows what union is, and he respects it,” Brannon said. “That’s all we need is respect. He’s just a likable fellow, trustworthy. I don’t think she has the same respect for the union, and she really shot herself in the foot over, you know, all that secretive stuff.”

...

“What I’ve found in Vermont and around the country is that we go to people and say, ‘Look, we do have differences,’ ” Sanders said. “ ‘I believe in gay marriage. I’m not going to change your view if you don’t. I believe climate change is absolutely real, and some of you do not. But how many of you think we should give hundreds of billions in tax breaks to the richest 1 percent?’ ”

...

Still, on Thursday, at his farm in Grafton, Democratic former state legislator Mike Manypenny was firm that enthusiasm for Sanders is big and getting bigger. Manypenny, one of the many casualties of a 2014 Republican sweep, is running for Congress on the theory that the progressive politics he shares with Sanders — a living wage, the return of Glass-Steagall’s repealed restrictions on banks — are the way to break the conservative grip on voters’ imaginations.

“The problem last year was that everybody focused on getting the vote out from the historic Democratic voters,” he explained. “Those are the seniors — I don’t need to tell you that each year you lose a little more of them. This is something new. Barring anything happening in the Democratic debate, like Bernie stumbling badly, I don’t see anything changing the momentum. I think he wins.”

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

have the DNC grow some balls and literally hand out living wages to people who just got loving fired for political reasons? take some loving responsibility and actually use government power

Former Everything posted:

Lololol yes the state Democratic Party has money to hand out a living wage lol it was so easy why didn't we think of this earlier

Former Everything posted:

lol no it's quite clear that these are rational actor voters who just needed literally anyone to speak to them about improving their lives and not gullible loving idiots who have lived under paternalistic company rule for five or six generations and are particularly susceptible to dipshits blustering to them due to the failure of years of corporatist and crony capitalistic governance have suppressed the education system to garbage

-a genius

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

fund unions and workers' advocacy groups so they do exactly that? it's not rocket science

do you need every solution given to you on a silver platter?

Joementum posted:

We don't need to guess what kind of pro-environment message might have worked in coal country, by the way.

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

you could try protecting said workers from being fired at will so they could actually defy their bosses but "--oops-- that would upset the financial elite that backs us~"

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

have the DNC grow some balls and literally hand out living wages to people who just got loving fired for political reasons? take some loving responsibility and actually use government power

steinrokkan posted:

"Instead of spreading the message to disadvantaged areas with a disproportionate influence of Conservative ideas, let us spend our severely limited resources on hiring Katy Perry. In fact let us steal money from local organizations in most vulnerable areas to do that." - a genius

Lol, Democrats would rather die than acknowledge just how incredibly superior the GOP and its allies are in comprehending popular politics.

Joementum posted:

We don't need to guess what kind of pro-environment message might have worked in coal country, by the way.

Tatum Girlparts posted:

So just to be clear you literally just suggested as your big 'so there' that the national DNC (they're the only ones with that kinda funding) give money to rando coal country unions to go hand out door to door like fuckin santa claus, and that's how you get people to vote democrat in an area where it's entirely possible that your family has been living in coal mines for a century run by the same general company who have been destroying every single public function and saying 'wow it's hosed up how the socialist commie jews did this huh'?

Joementum posted:

We don't need to guess what kind of pro-environment message might have worked in coal country, by the way.

steinrokkan posted:

It's amazing that the same people whose 'pragmatism' empowered Trump are now trying to pretend they have anything to say about politics and popular opinion. The people who are the wrongest anyboody has ever been in modern history, including flat earthers and creationists.