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Deteriorata posted:I would have to dig out lots of books and get caught up again on specifics, but basically chapter 11 of Daniel is all about the war between the king of the north (the Seleucid Antiochus IV Epiphanes) and the king of the south (the Maccabeans). It follows pretty accurately what records show happened through most of 164, but the writer states that the king of the north will hold Jerusalem for 70 years, while the Maccabees were able to get it back shortly after the battle of Beth Zur, in late September or October of that year.
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Dec 2, 2016 05:56
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Jaramin posted:The 70 years thing is from chapter 9 and directly references the prophecy of Jeremiah that the Israelites would serve the Babylonians for 70 years before rebuilding. It's not a reference to the Seleucids, though chapters 8 and 11 talk about them, and specifically Antiochus IV Epiphanes a lot. You're right. Looking at things more closely and not relying on my memory, it's about verse 40 in chapter 11 that it goes off the rails. That's where it predicts the king of the north will have a huge victory all the way to Egypt. That's what was snuffed out at the battle of Beth Zur and thus never came to pass.
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Dec 2, 2016 06:14
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This is fascinating. Does the composition point to a single point of composition (barring the apocryphal sections) , or does the veering into apocalyptic visions represent a change of authorship?
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Dec 2, 2016 14:24
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Mr Enderby posted:This is fascinating. Does the composition point to a single point of composition (barring the apocryphal sections) , or does the veering into apocalyptic visions represent a change of authorship? Deteriorata posted:Sorry for the misunderstanding, then. I'm aware of all that and was speaking more of the common current ideas about Satan. Most of it is extra-Biblical and what many people will swear is in the Bible actually tends to come from Milton. my favorite headcanon reaching wide audiences was when Mel Gibson bald-facedly claimed The Passion of the Christ was "a reasonably accurate account of what happened in the last days of Jesus", and then it turned out of to have been more or less cribbed from a pamphlet a E: Wasn't syphilis, sorry, she was told eat morning glory by a "small child that appeared to her", presumably tripping her rear end off on the LSA content. Tias fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Dec 2, 2016 |
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Dec 2, 2016 15:19
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Thats where all the best visions come from
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Dec 2, 2016 15:22
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StashAugustine posted:Thats where all the best visions come from Yeah, but if merely eating enough psychoactive drugs gets you the right to interpret christianity and write new material, I'm among the most qualified people on earth!
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Dec 2, 2016 15:23
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My only experience with stuff like that was having something put in my drink without my knowledge back in highschool. Less "woah, man, I can see the universe" and more "what the hell is going on with me, this is awful, please make it stop" kind of deal. 
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Dec 2, 2016 15:30
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my dad posted:My only experience with stuff like that was having something put in my drink without my knowledge back in highschool. Less "woah, man, I can see the universe" and more "what the hell is going on with me, this is awful, please make it stop" kind of deal. I have done more than my share. I can grow many species of mushrooms or tell how 2c-t-2 feels different from 2c-t-7, but I wouldn't be able to explain it to you! Amazing times, but weered into alcohol abuse, speed and sedatives and then heroin much too fast  Now, as apprenticed to a shaman, I'm actually learning the religious rites associated with assorted funky mushrooms, cacti, liana etc. but I've decided to wait some years before actually participating. Can't have me influencing Mel Gibson too soon, or ever, I hope 
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Dec 2, 2016 15:34
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Mr Enderby posted:This is fascinating. Does the composition point to a single point of composition (barring the apocryphal sections) , or does the veering into apocalyptic visions represent a change of authorship? Daniel appears to have been written as a series of vignettes, roughly corresponding with the chapter divisions. Compilers were a bit haphazard in pulling them together, though, as they get out of chronological sequence. The apocalyptic visions generally parallel the events of the Maccabean revolution, but jump around a bit. Combined with the crazy imagery, it's tough to keep straight just what's going on. That's probably why there's additional Daniel stuff in the Apocrypha - other stories in the same vein that didn't get into the initial compilation, but remained popular.
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Dec 2, 2016 15:41
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Arsenic Lupin posted:It's the "and" that gets you. If they name Revelations and Daniel together, it means they're into prophecy, and very likely into explaining how Biblical prophecy means the following about world politics/the election/... Remember when the four blood moons came and the world ended September of last year? That was a pretty underwhelming apocalypse.
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Dec 2, 2016 18:39
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Lutha Mahtin posted:in less Friend of mine went to this and can confirm there were plenty of woodcuts of anti-pope/tit-devil stuff. Saw this on facebook today: 
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Dec 2, 2016 18:54
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news i went to an episcopal service last sunday. i plan to poast more later but its highly more relevant to share this dumb photo i took of United States Interstate 94 a week or 2 back:
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Aw man! I've really fallen in love with Luther memes lately, thread. What does it mean? 
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Dec 2, 2016 19:04
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Smoking Crow posted:Lamentations is underrated imo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeETpwQGRT8 Thread has been knocking it out of the park lately.
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Dec 2, 2016 19:07
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Tias posted:my favorite headcanon reaching wide audiences was when Mel Gibson bald-facedly claimed The Passion of the Christ was "a reasonably accurate account of what happened in the last days of Jesus", and then it turned out of to have been more or less cribbed from a pamphlet a Double posting, but the best part about this is that her visions were written down and edited by her confessor, who was later revealed to be a freemason. That really messes with the ultra rad trads.
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Dec 2, 2016 19:13
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Worthleast posted:Double posting, but the best part about this is that her visions were written down and edited by her confessor, who was later revealed to be a freemason. That really messes with the ultra rad trads. These are the visions where Christ supposedly told the disciples how to make chrism during the dinner conversation, right? Or am I remembering a different bizarre visionary? In non-visionary but also weird news: Apparently measuring instruments malfunction around the Holy Sepulcher.
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Dec 2, 2016 19:23
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zonohedron posted:These are the visions where Christ supposedly told the disciples how to make chrism during the dinner conversation, right? Or am I remembering a different bizarre visionary? I'm having trouble connecting how an "electromagnetic disturbance" that made instruments malfunction at the Edicule has anything to do with the Shroud of Turin. "There's something odd here" doesn't mean there were 3.4 terawatts of UV light emitted from it.
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Dec 2, 2016 19:35
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Deteriorata posted:I'm having trouble connecting how an "electromagnetic disturbance" that made instruments malfunction at the Edicule has anything to do with the Shroud of Turin. I don't know how it connects with the Shroud of Turin, either, unless someone's suggesting an alien shroud-image-creating-device is still there or something...
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Dec 2, 2016 19:53
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zonohedron posted:These are the visions where Christ supposedly told the disciples how to make chrism during the dinner conversation, right? Or am I remembering a different bizarre visionary? They all fall into the same category in my mind. If I haven't finished going through Public Revelation and the commentaries on it, why would I be interested in Private Revelation?
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Dec 2, 2016 23:13
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Worthleast posted:Double posting, but the best part about this is that her visions were written down and edited by her confessor, who was later revealed to be a freemason. That really messes with the ultra rad trads. IIRC (sorry, migraine today, brain fried) when they made her a Saint they also said some of the private revelations don't count?
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Dec 2, 2016 23:19
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Arsenic Lupin posted:IIRC (sorry, migraine today, brain fried) when they made her a Saint they also said some of the private revelations don't count? Emmerich was canonized? 
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Dec 2, 2016 23:45
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Friend of mine went to this and can confirm there were plenty of woodcuts of anti-pope/tit-devil stuff.  And yes, I went to the MIA exhibit too. However, I'm being very  about sorting through all the pictures I took. You should totally go! The one tip I have: if you sign up to be a "member" of the MIA, which is free, you get a discount on tickets. You can also, almost always, find free street parking a block or two away from the museum. Just watch out for ginkgo trees near the little park next to the highway: my brother and I stepped in some of the berries, and we ended up spending like 10 minutes in the museum bathroom trying to scrape that nasty stuff off of there. The berries literally smell like poo poo.edit: i tried to upload some photos but the forums isn't loading them from imgur or xomf  . i'll try again later
Lutha Mahtin fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Dec 3, 2016 |
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Dec 3, 2016 00:10
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Worthleast posted:Emmerich was canonized? My mistake; so far she's just beatified, with the caveat that the crazy prophesies don't count toward the beatification. "...the books produced by Brentano were set aside, and her cause adjudicated solely on the basis of her own personal sanctity and virtue.[5] Father Peter Gumpel who was involved in the analysis of the matter at the Vatican told Catholic News Service: "Since it was impossible to distinguish what derives from Sister Emmerich and what is embroidery or additions, we could not take these writings as a criteria. Therefore, they were simply discarded completely from all the work for the cause"" You will not be surprised that Mel Gibson is all about Catherine Emmerich and based parts of The Passion of the Christ on her narrative.
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Dec 3, 2016 00:36
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Tias posted:Aw man! Usually anti-semitism. Also too much emphasis on the bible
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Dec 3, 2016 01:36
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Josef bugman posted:Usually anti-semitism. Also too much emphasis on the bible beer, neckbeards, and shitposting
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Dec 3, 2016 02:58
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Pellisworth posted:beer, neckbeards, and shitposting Eh, that too. Luthor ain't my favourite of the many and varied people who tried to start new stuff in the Church.
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Dec 3, 2016 10:33
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Josef bugman posted:Eh, that too. Now that's a plot to take down Superman that I hadn't heard of before!
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Dec 3, 2016 11:18
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System Metternich posted:Now that's a plot to take down Superman that I hadn't heard of before! FFS, you spend a few hours watching Justice League and this is where it gets you. Though a cross-over might be cool.
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Dec 3, 2016 15:27
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my favorite part of the protestant reformation was when the pope said the world was made of cardboard and threw john calvin through a wall
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Dec 3, 2016 15:31
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For our Nordics: There's an ethnic group in Estonia who have their own little kingdom on the Russian border and apparently practice a mix of Orthodox Christianity and paganism. The article has cool photos, albeit sadly no funny hats.
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Dec 3, 2016 18:11
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pidan posted:For our Nordics:
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Dec 3, 2016 18:15
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HEY GAL posted:there are hats though And dresses. Man, I want those dresses.
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Dec 3, 2016 18:34
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Arsenic Lupin posted:And dresses. Man, I want those dresses.
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Dec 3, 2016 18:44
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pidan posted:For our Nordics: The level of there syncretism barely exceeds the average across Eastern Europe, really.
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Dec 3, 2016 19:45
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HEY GAL posted:and names i can't pronounce, all in all A Good Eastern European Post Thread critical factors to consider when converting: 1. Hats. 2. Ratio of decorations to naked wall 3. Bells. 4. Smells. ... 105. Theology.
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Dec 3, 2016 21:34
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I do love the little hold outs of Paganism we still have in places, like how it's a point of pride for some of the Lithuanian colleagues at work with that they were the last people to convert to Christianity in Europe.
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Dec 4, 2016 01:30
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Josef bugman posted:Luthor ain't my favourite of the many and varied people who tried to start new stuff in the Church. your previous post to this one indicated you are completely unfamiliar with indulgences, so i am definitely going to pay attention to your opinion about church reformers
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Dec 4, 2016 02:19
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the forums or my image host or something is being stupid, so please just click this link: http://xomf.com/g/gvhwn
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Dec 4, 2016 02:33
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Lutha Mahtin posted:the forums or my image host or something is being stupid, so please just click this link:  
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Dec 4, 2016 02:39
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That is anathema, Johann!
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Dec 4, 2016 03:07
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re: reformationchat This is Luther's sworn enemy Cardinal Albert, who was archbishop of Mainz. And Brandenburg. And Magdeburg. He essentially went into debt to purchase all those dioceses and had to sell massive amounts of relics and indulgences to pay them off, including hiring the notorious Johann Tetzel to go sell indulgences. And of course at the same time the Vatican is indebted to a number of Italian bankers, and Pope Leo X is trying to ramp up the sale of dioceses, indulgences and relics himself so that the Vatican can stay in the black and he can continue his lavish lifestyle (he went hunting all the time, owned a pet white elephant, threw parties constantly that involved nude boys dressed as angels jumping out of cakes, all that fun pope stuff.) The Catholic Church was not in a good place in the 15th-16th centuries. I like this piece though cause Cardinal Albert just wants to chill with his fuckin' zoo and do cardinal stuff. Look he's even got a beaver.
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Dec 4, 2016 06:07
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