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Joementum posted:I think the party should talk more about long-term goals, less about what they think is realistic to get passed in the next Congress. i think you're exactly right. both parties should, really, but that's only because i think most people would poo poo themselves if the gop started talking about what they thought the country ought to look like in 20 years. but hillary definitely did herself a disservice by refusing to take on bold, ambitious policies or articulate a clear vision for what the country ought to look like down the road rather than in her first term.
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Dec 4, 2016 18:22
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Bear Retrieval Unit posted:Has any plane kidnapping ever had a bomb on board? The kidnappers always bullshit about that but I don't remember a case where they actually had one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTA_Flight_772 Though I doubt they actually intended to "kidnap" the plane. But Pre 9/11 plane hijacking's etc weren't exactly common in the US. Maybe one every few years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings
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Dec 4, 2016 18:27
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Do Democrats actually have a vision for what they want America to look like in 20 years? "Better, I guess?"
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Dec 4, 2016 18:28
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Guy Goodbody posted:Do Democrats actually have a vision for what they want America to look like in 20 years? "Better, I guess?" it's the democratic party so we're still focus group testing our vision
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Dec 4, 2016 18:29
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I have a dream, that my children will grow up in a world where all racial, religious, sexual, and gender minorities are equally represented in the richest 1%
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Dec 4, 2016 18:32
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Irony.or.Death posted:this only works if you also murder all their heirs or abolish the intergenerational transfer of wealth A 100% death tax on assets over 10 million dollars would be good imo.
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Dec 4, 2016 18:33
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Guy Goodbody posted:I have a dream, that my children will grow up in a world where all racial, religious, sexual, and gender minorities are equally represented in the richest 1% that would be good though
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Dec 4, 2016 18:32
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look all this fantasizing is cool but we are never retaking society from the rich with anything but blood
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Dec 4, 2016 18:36
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if u 1% i hate u
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Dec 4, 2016 18:38
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Pomp posted:look all this fantasizing is cool but we are never retaking society from the rich with anything but blood It would also help if we stopped trying to come up with ways to entice industries to invest in communities or convert into more modern production. Nationalize them and do it ourselves.
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Dec 4, 2016 18:40
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LinYutang posted:this, the GOP had fully Zero short term goals except Block The Democrats and they've been repeatedly rewarded for it Yeah, but they didn't have any longterm goals either. And they had a lot more short term goals - voter suppression, gently caress things up on a state level, etc.
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Dec 4, 2016 18:43
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Guy Goodbody posted:Do Democrats actually have a vision for what they want America to look like in 20 years? "Better, I guess?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H51HuNX41Fg
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Dec 4, 2016 18:43
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Concerned Citizen posted:that would be good though lmao
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Dec 4, 2016 19:00
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Concerned Citizen posted:trump is a guy with no self-control surrounded by insane, hard-right foreign policy hawks on his cabinet. i wouldn't be so optimistic. Yeah the Guardian suggested the Taiwan call was pushed by China hardliners in Donny Tum Tum's transition team. One of them is a vocal critic of the Obama administration refusing to recognize Taiwan, another called Taiwan one of America's most vulnerable allies and wants to sell them more weapons. That ended whatever hope I had for a peaceful tenure. It's either going to be Trump flipping his lid, or some Jafar hypnotizing him.
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Dec 4, 2016 19:13
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anime was right posted:gently caress it, just use coal county as an experiment on universal basic income. Please stop, I can only get so erect
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Dec 4, 2016 19:27
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how will people who don't work for a living force the liberal elites to continue to pay for universal income, what happens when the people who own everything say "hm, no more of this"
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Dec 4, 2016 19:32
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Alaska already has UBI, they just don't call it that. So now all West Virginia needs to do is find massive deposits of oil and drill baby drill!
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Dec 4, 2016 19:35
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lmao they actually open with some insufferable millenials having mimosas. Its a perfect parody out of how out of touch everybody even remotely involved in that production is, except its not a parody and they thought the joke was something else. Joementum posted:I think this is exactly the kind of wonking itself to death the party should avoid. Maybe people don't like "free college" as a proposal, but they certainly aren't going to like "free in-state college with a means testing cap and a work requirement". Maybe these are the policies you end up with, but it shouldn't be where you start. Incremental pragmatism is all well and good, but reserve that poo poo for the when you're fighting in Congress. You need big goals that you can sell to capture the imagination of the people. People will forgive, to an extent, falling short of a lofty ideal; voters gave Obama a second term after the clusterfuck of the ACA. Thinking small may be how you get things done eventually, but thinking big is how you get to the point where you can even make the attempt. Weirdly, people laughed at that and called that style of thinking childishly naive. Joementum posted:I think the party should talk more about long-term goals, less about what they think is realistic to get passed in the next Congress. Realism is for nerds. Nerds don't win elections.
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Dec 4, 2016 19:45
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HorseRenoir posted:Alaska already has UBI, they just don't call it that. So now all West Virginia needs to do is find massive deposits of oil and drill baby drill! yeah but it's only like $2k/y and it's actually been a disaster for alaska, they've essentially pissed away a mountain of money
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Dec 4, 2016 19:46
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Not a Step posted:lmao they actually open with some insufferable millenials having mimosas. Its a perfect parody out of how out of touch everybody even remotely involved in that production is, except its not a parody and they thought the joke was something else. it is a parody
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Dec 4, 2016 19:49
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logikv9 posted:It's hard to keep a delicate balance because probations targeting one side in particular will turn the thread into a circlejerk for the other, so instead I don't probate unless you're expressly breaking a rule or melting down. One of those "sides" is objectively wrong (the side that lost to Donald Trump) GlyphGryph posted:I skipped a couple of pages. I couldnt read anymore. Some of you people actually, legitmately disgust me, to the point where if I did not genuinely believe the party could be saved from you and people like you, I would despair. 
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Dec 4, 2016 19:50
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Concerned Citizen posted:yeah but it's only like $2k/y and it's actually been a disaster for alaska, they've essentially pissed away a mountain of money How has it been a "disaster ".
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Dec 4, 2016 19:51
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Crowsbeak posted:How has it been a "disaster ". because rather than invest in developing the state and building the funds for a permanent cradle-to-grave welfare society, they spent it on imported televisions
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Dec 4, 2016 19:52
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Concerned Citizen posted:because rather than invest in developing the state and building the funds for a permanent cradle-to-grave welfare society, they spent it on imported televisions That's like saying spending my Friday night was a disaster because I wasn't working on one of my projects.  Hyperbole will only push people away. Opportunity cost. Opportuuuuuuunity cost. Opportunity cost!!!! Orporturnity Corst NumberLast has issued a correction as of 19:56 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 19:53
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logikv9 posted:It's hard to keep a delicate balance because probations targeting one side in particular will turn the thread into a circlejerk for the other, so instead I don't probate unless you're expressly breaking a rule or melting down. Why don't you just probate fuckos, and then if people jack off over it, probate them? Fulchrum posted:Yeah, but they didn't have any longterm goals either. And they had a lot more short term goals - voter suppression, gently caress things up on a state level, etc. Nah, their long term goals were social conservatism such as repealing Roe v Wade and making gay people illegal again and oh hey, they are in position to do that now I will literally never not laugh at people making corny, enthusiastic endorsements for Hillary Clinton. Especially so in this case, as Lena Dunham is a garbage person. Hail Mr. Satan! has issued a correction as of 19:59 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 19:56
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NumberLast posted:That's like saying spending my Friday night was a disaster because I wasn't working on one of my projects. yeah i mean opportunity cost matters given that alaska's failure to invest its money will eventually not only end the dividend but leave the state penniless and an economic disaster
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Dec 4, 2016 20:04
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shoulda bought real estate that isnt frozen, alaska. so dumb
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Dec 4, 2016 20:08
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NumberLast posted:That's like saying spending my Friday night was a disaster because I wasn't working on one of my projects. it's not really 'opportunity cost' so much as it's 'this program was never intended to be an actual social welfare program and was never run like one, so using it as an example of one is kinda misleading'.
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Dec 4, 2016 20:10
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Tatum Girlparts posted:it's not really 'opportunity cost' so much as it's 'this program was never intended to be an actual social welfare program and was never run like one, so using it as an example of one is kinda misleading'. it was literally designed by right-wingers to prevent alaska from becoming a welfare state. alaska could have used their money to develop currently untapped natural gas resources and develop industries that don't rely entirely on fossil fuels. by now, it'd have a sovereign wealth fund comparable to norway's per capita. instead, it cut state taxes to 0 and gave away tiny amounts of money to all its residents while expressing confidence that the free market would make investments that it ultimately never did. if you're a right-winger, you love that. if you at all believe that government is a good thing, it's a disaster for alaska.
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Dec 4, 2016 20:26
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Nah, their long term goals were social conservatism such as repealing Roe v Wade and making gay people illegal again and oh hey, they are in position to do that now THey were doing that in the short term too, anywhere they could get away with it. That isn't a long term goal, its just doing their short term goal again when they get more power.
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Dec 4, 2016 20:40
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So quick question to all our resident leftists and communists. Whats your take on churches as bases for community organizing? They are big in the black community and in rural area's but I know religion is a touchy subject for the left.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:01
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Venom Snake posted:So quick question to all our resident leftists and communists. Whats your take on churches as bases for community organizing? They are big in the black community and in rural area's but I know religion is a touchy subject for the left. speaking as somebody who vehemently rejected christianity when i was 9, the objection most people have to it is the fact that churches are typically associated with the right-wing. if a church promotes left-wing ideals and policies, then i have no problem with it, but i'd expect others to be skittish of them given how lovely certain segments of christianity have been towards minorities. YMMV.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:06
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basically, we've been burned before.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:07
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Venom Snake posted:So quick question to all our resident leftists and communists. Whats your take on churches as bases for community organizing? They are big in the black community and in rural area's but I know religion is a touchy subject for the left. Churches can be really good bases for community organizing. In Austin, the Austin Justice Coalition's first post-election meeting was held in a Unitarian church. Anything that is pre-existing as a tightly-knit community can be fruitful for organizing and helpful for meeting spaces.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:08
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Venom Snake posted:So quick question to all our resident leftists and communists. Whats your take on churches as bases for community organizing? They are big in the black community and in rural area's but I know religion is a touchy subject for the left. Acknowledging the existence of religion is not true leftist and true leftism cannot fail, so we must not fail it.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:09
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Venom Snake posted:So quick question to all our resident leftists and communists. Whats your take on churches as bases for community organizing? They are big in the black community and in rural area's but I know religion is a touchy subject for the left. Most churches (at least down here) are opposed to leftist ideals, which is kinda mind-blowing but whatever. So they're pretty much gonna be biased against leftists. But if you have some that are open to it, then I say go for it. It's pretty important that leftists not reject religion, though, as it is a cornerstone of American society.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:21
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Venom Snake posted:So quick question to all our resident leftists and communists. Whats your take on churches as bases for community organizing? They are big in the black community and in rural area's but I know religion is a touchy subject for the left. I am extremely ambivalent, as in American history (and elsewhere, but we're talking about the US here) some churches and church groups have played powerful roles in promoting social reforms while others have been equally active (though not as successful) attempting to retard them. Plus a lot of them come with baked-in limits and biases that make it complicated, at best, to promote the idea that we're all equally in this together. plus there's no god deal with it.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:31
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Fulchrum posted:THey were doing that in the short term too, anywhere they could get away with it. That isn't a long term goal, its just doing their short term goal again when they get more power. It's almost as though a long term goal is made up of many short term goals reached zegermans posted:Acknowledging the existence of religion is not true leftist and true leftism cannot fail, so we must not fail it. This is so loving salty. I'm fine with using churches for no other reason than churches have been endorsing right-wing candidates despite not paying taxes forever. That being said, I think in a lot of areas you'd be hard pressed to find one willing to host any type of liberals. Hail Mr. Satan! has issued a correction as of 21:46 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 21:44
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:It's almost as though a long term goal is made up of many short term goals reached frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:This is so loving salty. Maybe it would help if you didn't open with "gods not real and everything you think is a lie". Start with meetings geared towards broadly agreeable points that don't clash with dogma and are antithetical to conservatism, like feeding the hungry and giving medicine to the sick, and build from there.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:59
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Concordat posted:The fee is for conducting a background check - supposedly. People with security clearances get TSA pre-checks for free I think? Maybe military too? They just give it to uniformed military because they got bad PR from people taking pictures of soldiers getting patted down. If they're out of uniform they don't get it automatically. Thoguh has issued a correction as of 22:38 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 22:03
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