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Neurolimal posted:Stone cold did this, to which you then jumped to their defense because you saw the word 'virtue signaling' in an environment appropriate for its use. Now you're trying to back out while also accusing me of lying, which is....something. Let me use a whole bunch of dumb words so it doesn't look like I'm dogwhistling and abandoning minorities!
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Dec 4, 2016 21:01
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Business Gorillas posted:you have a link for this? i'm genuinely interested http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/03/politics/haim-saban-keith-ellison-anti-semite/ https://theintercept.com/2016/12/04/the-smear-campaign-against-keith-ellison-is-repugnant-but-reveals-much-about-washington/ It's a story that will magically appear whenever he threatens the democratic establishment and magically disappear when he goes back to toeing the party line as a congressman. It's basically Hillary's Jeremiah Wright attack, back when Obama was seen as a threat to the democratic establishment.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:01
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Woozy posted:"It's not my job to educate you--I'm a psychoanalyst!" Come on, dude, you'll never be able to fight the bourgeoisie if you shy away from smearing a queer 'cause they contradicted you. How will you be able to kill in cold blood if you haven't practiced?
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Dec 4, 2016 21:02
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Just gonna leave this here cause y'all are loving up the usage of virtue signalling as it was originally coined, and using the alt-right corruption of the original term. It mainly focuses on the alt-right/MRA use of the word, the relevant bit is about a minute in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAmM872874A LunarShadow fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 21:01
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Brainiac Five posted:People who describe themselves as "allies" generally are pure shitbags. They claimed that I was arguing that we should give up and cant change anything, and should therefore give up, and took outrage at this. None of which was grounded in reality. Do you believe ending the topical issues of today would ensure bigotry never speings up in the future? If your answer is no, then your posts towards me have been entirely pointless.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:03
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stone cold posted:Let me use a whole bunch of dumb words so it doesn't look like I'm dogwhistling and abandoning minorities! Please point out where I have dogwhistled. Use quotations and bolding of my posts if you must. Just explain how they are.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:05
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Neurolimal posted:They claimed that I was arguing that we should give up and cant change anything, and should therefore give up, and took outrage at this. None of which was grounded in reality. The question you are asking is irrelevant to the point you were making about bigotry being eternal. Your dishonesty "speings" eternal.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:04
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LunarShadow posted:Just gonna leave this here cause y'all are loving up the usage of virtue signalling as it was originally coined, and using the alt-right corruption of the original term. It mainly focuses on the alt-right/MRA use of the word, the relevant bit is about a minute in. Aw man, y'all hosed up! human being originally meant bundle of sticks, you're just using the corruption! A chink is a flaw, y'all! Dyke means dam, c'mon! Thanks for the help, dumbass!
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Dec 4, 2016 21:05
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Woozy posted:ACTUALLY, I think you'll find that a dozen pages of nothing but innuendo and posturing in lieu of any actual point or really even thought is incredibly boring! I'm going to put this really whacky hypothesis out there... bear with me... what if Effectronica Sockpuppet Five is actually not arguing in good faith? Squinty posted:http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/03/politics/haim-saban-keith-ellison-anti-semite/ It's basic power politics, you use whatever gets the largest number of
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Dec 4, 2016 21:05
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Neurolimal posted:Please point out where I have dogwhistled. Use quotations and bolding of my posts if you must. Just explain how they are. Calling legitimate minority anger "outrage" is a dogwhistle as I have already pointed out, whiteboii.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:06
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Brainiac Five posted:The question you are asking is irrelevant to the point you were making about bigotry being eternal. Your dishonesty "speings" eternal. It is relevant, because the point is that bigotry is an abstract concept that knows not theeaning of time or death. Bigotry will exist in the future, and we will fight it. That does not make the fight pointless.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:07
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blowfish posted:I'm going to put this really whacky hypothesis out there... bear with me... what if Effectronica Sockpuppet Five is actually not arguing in good faith? So why do you and Neurolimal et al. insist on people lying, acting, etc. when they disagree with you? Is it because you believe your beliefs are self-evidently true? Or is it because you are pathological liars? Neurolimal posted:It is relevant, because the point is that bigotry is an abstract concept that knows not theeaning of time or death. Bigotry will exist in the future, and we will fight it. That does not make the fight pointless. "Theaning", heh. Your argument is that racism is inherent to humanity, since the dofferences must have existed prior to the existence of racism for it to form based on them. So, since racism cannot be eliminated, attempting to eliminate it would necessarily be a pointless endeavor, indeed almost a way of signalling your virtue without actually achieving anything... a kind of slacktivism... Brainiac Five fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 21:07
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stone cold posted:Calling legitimate minority anger "outrage" is a dogwhistle as I have already pointed out, whiteboii. And how is taking outrage at a manufactured version of someones post in your head legitimate minority anger? Is all anger legitimate if its minority anger?
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Dec 4, 2016 21:09
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stone cold posted:Aw man, y'all hosed up! human being originally meant bundle of sticks, you're just using the corruption! A chink is a flaw, y'all! Dyke means dam, c'mon! I agree with you and was calling out Neuroliminal on his bullshit, though I seem to have hosed that up myself. My point was mostly that word has been thoroughly corrupted by the alt-right, and another main point of that video was that even if it is virtue signalling it doesn't mean the person is wrong. Basically, who cares if someone sticking up for minorities is virtue-signaling, it doesn't make them wrong that somebody is a racist/sexist/transphobic fuckstick. So my sincerest apologies for not making that clearer.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:10
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Brainiac Five posted:So why do you and Neurolimal et al. insist on people lying, acting, etc. when they disagree with you? Is it because you believe your beliefs are self-evidently true? Or is it because you are pathological liars? It might be the part where you vehemently defend someone attacking another over a figment of their imagination, then accuse the assailed of lying about it, then accuse the assailed of not arguing about the topic they've been arguing about once you realize you've made a second mistake.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:10
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Neurolimal posted:And how is taking outrage at a manufactured version of someones post in your head legitimate minority anger? Can you prove that Stone Cold is deliberately and maliciously lying, as opposed to 1) being genuinely mistaken, 2) you communicating shittily, 3) you yourself lying?
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Dec 4, 2016 21:11
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Brainiac Five posted:Can you prove that Stone Cold is deliberately and maliciously lying, as opposed to 1) being genuinely mistaken, 2) you communicating shittily, 3) you yourself lying? Where have I said they are lying, rather than being mistaken? I even offered an out that is precisely 1). If it sounds like I'm saying they are lying, its because they are still insistent on this imagined stance despite me directly saying "no, I did not say stop fighting." and asking if they accidentally skimmed the argument.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:13
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LunarShadow posted:I agree with you and was calling out Neuroliminal on his bullshit, though I seem to have hosed that up myself. My point was mostly that word has been thoroughly corrupted by the alt-right, and another main point of that video was that even if it is virtue signalling it doesn't mean the person is wrong. Basically, who cares if someone sticking up for minorities is virtue-signaling, it doesn't make them wrong that somebody is a racist/sexist/transphobic fuckstick. So my sincerest apologies for not making that clearer. It is wrong though, if the signal is over an imaginary post.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:14
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Neurolimal posted:Where have I said they are lying, rather than being mistaken? I even offered an out that is precisely 1). You said "manufactured", which requires conscious malice. If you made a mistake, admit to it now or admit you're doing this not out of any ideological conviction, but out of a desire to fight someone you see as malevolent while simultaneously being too cowardly to do anything that might actually hinder them.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:14
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LunarShadow posted:I agree with you and was calling out Neuroliminal on his bullshit, though I seem to have hosed that up myself. My point was mostly that word has been thoroughly corrupted by the alt-right, and another main point of that video was that even if it is virtue signalling it doesn't mean the person is wrong. Basically, who cares if someone sticking up for minorities is virtue-signaling, it doesn't make them wrong that somebody is a racist/sexist/transphobic fuckstick. So my sincerest apologies for not making that clearer. Oh, that is my bad for genuinely misunderstanding your point. Thank you! Also, as opposed to my "misunderstanding" neurolimal because girlies like me don't read too good unless it's recipes.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:15
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Neurolimal posted:It is wrong though, if the signal is over an imaginary post. Then you don't need to mention virtue signaling, you just point out why they are wrong. Virtue signalling is a bullshit cop out for saying "I can't refute your idea so I am just gonna say you are trying to score points with some nebulous other party, therefore because you aren't sincere as determined by me you must be wrong." edit: Is all good, I got a bit ahead of myself in an attempt to be brief at the expense of my point.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:16
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Brainiac Five posted:You said "manufactured", which requires conscious malice. If you made a mistake, admit to it now or admit you're doing this not out of any ideological conviction, but out of a desire to fight someone you see as malevolent while simultaneously being too cowardly to do anything that might actually hinder them. Someone can have a false vision without holdong malice, but that vision was still manufactured. Let's skip the painful dragging out and just point out that you already did precisely this with Bash when they very obviously used a different definition than you. Since this fussing over a usage of one word is all you addresses from that post, I'l just assume you have given up on defending the outrage.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:16
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Neurolimal posted:Please point out where I have dogwhistled. Use quotations and bolding of my posts if you must. Just explain how they are. You never did. Stone cold and effectronica are just alt right trolls. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 21:17
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Neurolimal posted:Neither are bad goals, neither are easy, its possible neither will be achieved, but both are worthy of our focus, and the attraction of like-minded citizens to both makes us strong. The division is only necessary if we wish to tolerate millionaires who are unwilling to spare a fraction of their wealth for the good of all. Sure. I don't think anyone in this thread have said that economic issues aren't important or shouldn't be addressed (though admittedly, I don't pay much attention to Effectronica's posts). I'm just annoyed that a bunch of people seem to think that racial issues need to take a backseat to it. Fixing wage and class disparities won't make racism stop being a problem, it'll just make it easier to ignore.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:19
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Neurolimal posted:Someone can have a false vision without holdong malice, but that vision was still manufactured. Let's skip the painful dragging out and just point out that you already did precisely this with Bash when they very obviously used a different definition than you. There's no need to defend anger. As Thomas Aquinas wrote, anger is one of the two beautiful daughters of hope, dissatisfaction with the way things are. You lack both anger and her sister courage, the will to change the way things are.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:19
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stone cold posted:Oh, that is my bad for genuinely misunderstanding your point. Thank you! This is extremely blatant. I've specifically used "they" because I was unaware if you were a transman or transwoman. I absolutely could not be implying any sexist trope. You misunderstood because you skimmed posts, not because of a stereotype. LunarShadow posted:Then you don't need to mention virtue signaling, you just point out why they are wrong. Virtue signalling is a bullshit cop out for saying "I can't refute your idea so I am just gonna say you are trying to score points with some nebulous other party, therefore because you aren't sincere as determined by me you must be wrong." Alternatively, its implying that they are looking for an excuse to feel good about themselves, an implication provided because there was no other good-faith explanation for the post that didnt assume reading failure on her behalf. Its especially improbanle that it was your usage, seeing as it was in a single sentence separated from the refutation above it.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:21
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Panzeh posted:Identity politics as a focus makes the Democratic Party make it seem like the party mostly interested in making sure the boards of the banks loving everyone are appropriately diverse rather than doing anything about the banks. it's about two years ago now that michael brown's death at the hands of a cop, and subsequent murders of innocent black people by policemen, sparked a nationwide protest movement. it's absolutely insane that this is ongoing, like there are still monthly/weekly reports of dash cam or bystander videos of black people being murdered in cold blood, and white progressives still waltz into this thread to whine about how minority rights is just a rich people thing
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Dec 4, 2016 21:21
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Brainiac Five posted:Come on, dude, you'll never be able to fight the bourgeoisie if you shy away from smearing a queer 'cause they contradicted you. How will you be able to kill in cold blood if you haven't practiced?  You contradict yourself! This whole fake image of the radical anti-fash queer freaking out the D&D squares conjured in the defense of the very definition of heteronormative politics amounts to nothing more than revolutionary cosplay. Your only card in this thread was the same trite appeal to subjectivity that every useless Tumblrite hack eventually regresses to in lieu of argument and I think you've about worn it out.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:21
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Neurolimal posted:Stone cold did this, to which you then jumped to their defense because you saw the word 'virtue signaling' in an environment appropriate for its use. A white supremacist rally?
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Dec 4, 2016 21:22
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Main Paineframe posted:Sure. I don't think anyone in this thread have said that economic issues aren't important or shouldn't be addressed (though admittedly, I don't pay much attention to Effectronica's posts). I'm just annoyed that a bunch of people seem to think that racial issues need to take a backseat to it. Fixing wage and class disparities won't make racism stop being a problem, it'll just make it easier to ignore. And that literally every time that minority, especially racial, issues take a backseat to economics, the minority issues tend to get ignored by the population at large until there is another economic issue to be resolved. It's only when minority issues get pushed to the forefront that they get resolved, rather than relying on the benevolence of fair-weather allies.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:23
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Main Paineframe posted:Sure. I don't think anyone in this thread have said that economic issues aren't important or shouldn't be addressed (though admittedly, I don't pay much attention to Effectronica's posts). I'm just annoyed that a bunch of people seem to think that racial issues need to take a backseat to it. Fixing wage and class disparities won't make racism stop being a problem, it'll just make it easier to ignore. For sure. Social and Fiscal leftism intersect too much to enact either without the other and achieve effective results. Neither should take backseat to the other. Brainiac Five posted:There's no need to defend anger. As Thomas Aquinas wrote, anger is one of the two beautiful daughters of hope, dissatisfaction with the way things are. You lack both anger and her sister courage, the will to change the way things are. I'm sure Aquinas precisely was envisioning attacking someone you agreed with because you didnt read their stance, and then courageoudly refusing to back down from your mistake.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:24
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Venuz Patrol posted:it's about two years ago now that michael brown's death at the hands of a cop, and subsequent murders of innocent black people by policemen, sparked a nationwide protest movement. it's absolutely insane that this is ongoing, like there are still monthly/weekly reports of dash cam or bystander videos of black people being murdered in cold blood, and white progressives still waltz into this thread to whine about how minority rights is just a rich people thing Well, you see, that's a class issue. Poor whites actually are murdered much more often by the cops, because of affirmative action and Hillary Clinton's continued existence. Woozy posted:
So how much time do you spend masturbating to the thought of murdering innocent teens that use a particular blogging service? Or are your perverse fantasies more about torturing them? Give me a weekly estimate- four hours? ten hours? Look, man, I'm not saying killing is bad, I'm telling to put your money where your mouth is, unless you're afraid of an anonymous homo on the internet.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:24
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Brainiac Five posted:Well, you see, that's a class issue. Poor whites actually are murdered much more often by the cops, because of affirmative action and Hillary Clinton's continued existence. I've seen far more ironic accusations of race realism in this thread than anyone actually believing social issues are less important than the ones that affect poor whites.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:26
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Neurolimal posted:I'm sure Aquinas precisely was envisioning attacking someone you agreed with because you didnt read their stance, and then courageoudly refusing to back down from your mistake. I don't actually agree with you, you moron, and your attempts to create the cognitive perception that I do, like Israel's attempts to create the cognitive perception of victory against Hezbollah, are inevitably doomed to failure on the basis that they have no connection with reality.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:28
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Brainiac Five posted:I don't actually agree with you, you moron, and your attempts to create the cognitive perception that I do, like Israel's attempts to create the cognitive perception of victory against Hezbollah, are inevitably doomed to failure on the basis that they have no connection with reality. You've retreated so far that you no longer can declare victory over any morsel of an aspect of the discussion, only the vague implication of a moral victory
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Dec 4, 2016 21:31
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This thread is why identity politics is bad
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Dec 4, 2016 21:31
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Neurolimal posted:You've retreated so far that you no longer can declare victory over any morsel of an aspect of the discussion, only the vague implication of a moral victory What the heck? This is actual nonsense. Thomas Friedman, is that you?
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Dec 4, 2016 21:31
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Brainiac Five posted:Well, you see, that's a class issue. Poor whites actually are murdered much more often by the cops, because of affirmative action and Hillary Clinton's continued existence. You suck
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Dec 4, 2016 21:33
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eightpole posted:This thread is why identity politics is bad Naw, spending three pages arguing minutiae and word usage to show solidarity with someone who misread a stance is the heart and soul of a revolution.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:33
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Neurolimal posted:For sure. Social and Fiscal leftism intersect too much to enact either without the other and achieve effective results. Neither should take backseat to the other. Nah, we can be done with this idea. Leftism has not been able to provide a pathway to an inclusive politics. If neoliberalism, state capitalism or rude, bearded despotism can, let's go with it.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:33
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