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Old Talon was an unholy terror if he got remotely ahead, and the only reason he wasn't played all the time is that he was thought of as dull compared to other AD assassins. He was one of the few champs that even if he goes in 1v5, he'll almost certainly get a kill before getting blown up. New Talon is more of a bullshit sustained-fighter type, honestly. He reminds me of those days of tank Fizz. Good thing IBG isn't absurd any more.
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Dec 4, 2016 19:49
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i think that rake's backswing is glacial and so easy to dodge makes up for any annoyances like the parkour, his poke is pretty bad now that that backswing is less of a guarantee
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Dec 4, 2016 20:35
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loving god, I keep forgetting to click the find match button and I would just sit there waiting for nothing.
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Dec 4, 2016 20:48
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Tired Moritz posted:loving god, I keep forgetting to click the find match button and I would just sit there waiting for nothing. Haha what an idiot. (I do that all the time)
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Dec 4, 2016 21:12
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Neurolimal posted:That kinda seems like what they are going for with stuff like Knights Vow, Redemption, making Triumphant Roar a passive ability etc. supports dont feel ineffectual??
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Dec 4, 2016 21:46
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LegalPad posted:Haha what an idiot. I always forget to pick my roles, I dunno why rito doesn't just let you see defaults or pick your most common ones or something.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:46
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Neurolimal posted:That kinda seems like what they are going for with stuff like Knights Vow, Redemption, making Triumphant Roar a passive ability etc. How is making cool support items bad
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Dec 4, 2016 21:54
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knights vow is fun and great if your adc isn't stupid. It definitely makes me feel like a knight even if I'm playing a fat frog man so it's definitely achieving that end-game fantasy.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:56
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Tired Moritz posted:knights vow is fun and great if your adc isn't stupid. My issue with knight's vow is it's clearly a tank support item but tank supps already struggle to pickup cdr and they struggle even more now that locket doesn't have cdr so it not having cdr feels like such a big drawback. If you go tank eyetem into something like locket + knights vow then you're at 0% cdr for p much the entire game. You could put scaling cdr in your rune page but I think tank supps more than ranged ones need the in lane stats to not be totally useless.
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Dec 4, 2016 22:13
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rabidsquid posted:supports dont feel ineffectual?? They dont, which is why they get nerfed and then extra nerfed if they show up outside the support role kingcobweb posted:How is making cool support items bad I dont think making cool support items is bad. Imo I'd rather the majority of supporting be item based, and then making support kits that are 100% a complete kit instead of just being an addendum to carries. More support variety = more gooder imo
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Dec 4, 2016 22:24
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what is support anymore
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Dec 4, 2016 22:29
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I wish the morde experiment went better. Being able to send something other than a range ad bot would be good.
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Dec 4, 2016 22:31
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I wish the morde experiment went better. Being able to send something other than a range ad bot would be good.
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Dec 4, 2016 22:30
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Neurolimal posted:They dont, which is why they get nerfed and then extra nerfed if they show up outside the support role
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Dec 4, 2016 22:35
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Methanar posted:I wish the morde experiment went better. Being able to send something other than a range ad bot would be good. It's really fun to play bruiser supp when you're against people worse than you and I wish it was more viable when things were even cause I feel like most solo lane bruisers are just bad or too strong in several recent metas so it would make sense to make a supported bruiser more viable in lane.
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Dec 4, 2016 22:36
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I feel like tanky JG's have a really rough early game this season. Raptors and krugs take forever to clear, and getting counter jungled hurts more now than ever. Plus the health recovery plants spawning in river help assassin champs way more than the 'safe' tanky champs. Maybe I'm just rusty, but I used to have a lot more success with Ammumu, Malphite, Maokai, Sej etc... Vi, Graves, Lee, Rengar, and Kha seem to be 'online' right away with minimal items.
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Dec 4, 2016 22:42
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LegalPad posted:I feel like tanky JG's have a really rough early game this season. Raptors and krugs take forever to clear, and getting counter jungled hurts more now than ever. Plus the health recovery plants spawning in river help assassin champs way more than the 'safe' tanky champs. the tradeoff is the new keystone is busted so if you do make it through that patch you'll be an unkillable monstrosity
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Dec 4, 2016 22:44
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or you could just play hecarim or vi or whatever and also be unkillable
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Dec 4, 2016 22:46
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ArbitraryC posted:It's really fun to play bruiser supp when you're against people worse than you and I wish it was more viable when things were even cause I feel like most solo lane bruisers are just bad or too strong in several recent metas so it would make sense to make a supported bruiser more viable in lane. Please don't ask for that, it would make playing ADC even worse than ever.
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Dec 4, 2016 22:54
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ArbitraryC posted:I think that's kind of a perpetual issue with the role, anyone too good at doing what they're supposed to do outside of stuff that's only beneficial with a lane buddy (like non-self healing) has a hard wall of "this can't be good enough to be solo lane viable". For example I was a huge fan of lulu when people were playing her outside a role, and don't think she was too strong of a supp then but she got hit super hard because she was too strong of a mid or top or w/e. I feel like this could be solved by focusing less on giving heroes they want to support a jack-of-trades kit, and more wacky focused kits. Lulu dominates outside bot because her kit is practically designed to grant her autonomy. A good example from a once super-high quality game is Bane from dotes2; his kit is very meh by himself, he can drain a targets attack damage, sleep someone for 7 seconds, eat a chunk of a targets health and heal (on a very long cooldown), and deal dece damage and stun with a channel. Outside a significant level advantage theres no real scenario where he kills someone that doesnt have abnormally low health (in fact he's most likely to get killed while disabling), but he becomes viable as a supporter because in teamfights he can erase carry damage, sleep the initiator, then stun a mage. More league supports should fill similar weird niches instead of being "interesting utility, [defensive]shield/heal [offensive] offensive dash, weak nuke or stun, [defense] ult that saves ally carry [offense] ult that disables enemy carry".
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Dec 4, 2016 22:56
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ArbitraryC posted:the tradeoff is the new keystone is busted so if you do make it through that patch you'll be an unkillable monstrosity It just seems like a rengar/Vi with 2 kills makes for a stronger team than a skarner/moakai with 2 assists. In other words, as a tanky jungler you are opportunistically getting your teamates kills, and they may or may not be a champion who will be able to quickly roll with a lead. As an assassin jungler, you are opportunistically getting yourself kills and you know you will be able to roll with a lead. Typing that out makes me feel stupid, but I swear to god that's how it seems like it plays out.
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Dec 4, 2016 23:06
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ArbitraryC posted:My issue with knight's vow is it's clearly a tank support item but tank supps already struggle to pickup cdr and they struggle even more now that locket doesn't have cdr so it not having cdr feels like such a big drawback. If you go tank eyetem into something like locket + knights vow then you're at 0% cdr for p much the entire game. You could put scaling cdr in your rune page but I think tank supps more than ranged ones need the in lane stats to not be totally useless. It's a huge problem with current tank support itemization. Leona feels like loving garbage at 0-10% CDR, and Redemption/Locket are so busted that it's hard to not pick them up.
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Dec 4, 2016 23:08
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Jhin is a pretty significantly different and successful experiment for the composition botlane given he's basically as caster that pretends to be an ADC.
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Dec 4, 2016 23:18
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LegalPad posted:It just seems like a rengar/Vi with 2 kills makes for a stronger team than a skarner/moakai with 2 assists. I mean that's league in a nutshell, you can go 1 for 1 several times in clear situations where only your presence got the kill in return but people will get mad at you for being 1/4/x cause people are dumb Your options are to play carries if you don't like that or play supporty champs if you're okay with that. ArbitraryC fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 23:22
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ArbitraryC posted:I mean that's league in a nutshell, you can go 1 for 1 several times in clear situations where only your presence got the kill in return but people will get mad at you for being 1/4/x cause people are dumb I agree completely, but forget about credit or acknowledgement from your teamates. I'm just talking about what wins more games. It seems like playing a JG who can carry gives your team a better chance of getting kills where they're needed most. I've always been in the camp where 0/0/X is the best way to play jungle. Looking back at my recent losses though seems to show that I have just as good of a chance losing to an enemy jungler as I do an enemy ADC when it's rengar, or hec, or whoever else can show up to a lane and delete someone. E. Granted this is solo Q silver where it's just a competition to see who can carry hardest and there's no real teamwork.
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Dec 4, 2016 23:30
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LegalPad posted:I agree completely, but forget about credit or acknowledgement from your teamates. I'm just talking about what wins more games. If you are much better than your opponents playing carry champs are obviously the way to advance, if you're pretty neutral then supporting styles are fine and will on average get you there. ArbitraryC fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 00:15
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LegalPad posted:I agree completely, but forget about credit or acknowledgement from your teamates. I'm just talking about what wins more games. I think part the issue in lower elos is that "giving" the kill to the laner is a good choice because it's supposed to make that lane self-sufficient - and if the laner is decent this is the case. But I'm sure we've all had games where you force feed your top laner 3-4 kills and then they proceed to tower dive or not ward and give up the lead and then some. It makes for a situation where you're better off being greedy with kills and guaranteeing the gold value gets used in a fight vs. being wasted.
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Dec 5, 2016 00:21
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Servaetes posted:Jhin is a pretty significantly different and successful experiment for the composition botlane given he's basically as caster that pretends to be an ADC. Why would they experiment with that, they made Ezreal and Corki ages ago
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Dec 5, 2016 00:31
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Ulio posted:I have a feeling Ryze went top because it is a ranked game. he did not
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Dec 5, 2016 00:48
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I've been trying for literally hours now and I just want one (1) game where top and mid dont feed so I can get first win of the day and move on. These are the situations where you feel helpless as supp cause you win lane then just slowly see your score get wrecked as you try to help people who can't be saved.
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Dec 5, 2016 02:20
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Support is easy this patch: convince your ADC to play twitch
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Dec 5, 2016 02:43
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ArbitraryC posted:I've been trying for literally hours now and I just want one (1) game where top and mid dont feed so I can get first win of the day and move on. These are the situations where you feel helpless as supp cause you win lane then just slowly see your score get wrecked as you try to help people who can't be saved. play an intermediate bot game if you want first win of the day that badly
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Dec 5, 2016 02:48
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ungulateman posted:play an intermediate bot game if you want first win of the day that badly I am never ever gonna do that. I got first win now with jinx adc and my top lane won and that was it it was over. I just think this is a very good example to people who insist about being able to carry as supp why this poo poo feels bad, like I'm sure statistically it works out it just just sucks when you ltierally have 4 games in a row where both your top and mid go 0/4 together before you have any chance to roam and you just can't do anything about it.
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Dec 5, 2016 03:09
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ArbitraryC posted:I am never ever gonna do that. Why? It's 150 free IP and you get to live the full AD Lee Sin pipe dream
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Dec 5, 2016 03:22
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Bholder posted:Why would they experiment with that, they made Ezreal and Corki ages ago Totally fair, but I think he has a bit of a different take on even the caster ADCs. I think the auto system he has makes him significantly different from those two enough so much so I'd say he's unique. He was an awesome addition to the lane and made me want to play it more because he's so different.
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Dec 5, 2016 03:49
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Servaetes posted:Totally fair, but I think he has a bit of a different take on even the caster ADCs. I think the auto system he has makes him significantly different from those two enough so much so I'd say he's unique. He was an awesome addition to the lane and made me want to play it more because he's so different. Same, Jhin rekindled a lot of my passion for ADCing. He's been tiding me over while Lucian is nerfed into the trashcan.
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Dec 5, 2016 03:55
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Kog is my all time ADC-ish pick, and I really wish they'd figure out what they want from him. Been playing MF in the current atmosphere of psychomurder hell dives, but she doesn't have a trumpet in her head.
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Dec 5, 2016 04:38
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In this edition of I Was Extremely Wrong: I was extremely wrong about Ivern builds. What I was doing: Scaling CDR blues 0/12/18, CotC Mobis -> Runic What pros are doing: Scaling MR blues 0/18/12, Windspeaker's Lucidity -> Athene's, never finish jungle item Me almost immediately upon trying this build: "oh this is dumb. Oh this is even better than I was doing. This is super super broken." Don't be like old me!!! Play Ivern right!!!
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Dec 5, 2016 05:01
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Just admit that you learned to play Ivern right from watching Imaqtpie
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Dec 5, 2016 05:03
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rabidsquid posted:Just admit that you learned to play Ivern right from watching Imaqtpie *angrily shouts at director* cut his mic. Cut his GODDAMNED mic
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Dec 5, 2016 05:18
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