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Angry Lobster posted:Ironically, the one Caesar ressembled the most was Sulla himself, both were extremely loyal to their friends, believed they were protected by a powerful goddess, and were extremely confident in their own luck. True. You might also add that he was a patrician from a relatively unsuccessful branch of an old family, and that he was declared an enemy of the state while out in the provinces and returned with his army to fight for what he felt were his rights. But Suetonius presents the anecdote in a way that suggests what Sulla meant was that Caesar was like Marius opposed to the domination of the "good men", that his politics were dangerously populist and would prove the ruin of constitutional rule. Which is pretty rich coming from Sulla. Of course, in other ways Caesar was nothing like either Sulla or Marius -- not slaughtering his political opposition once he won the civil war, for example, was a choice he made deliberately because he didn't wish to emulate Sulla and Marius' purges.
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Dec 6, 2016 00:58
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Yeah I've always thought that comment was just a dig at Caesar being a potentially revolutionary populāris.
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Dec 6, 2016 01:06
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Just given that people are what they are I guarantee Romans used whatever drugs were available. Opium, weed, and mushrooms would certainly have been around, not sure what else.
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Dec 6, 2016 02:01
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http://suburra.com/blog/2009/11/11/the-ph-d-candidate-who-said-too-much-a-drug-history-whitewash/ To me it's really really weird that Roman drug use is the thing that the academia consider beyond the pale of investigation. I guess it's vast quantities of drugs I've consumed over the years, but I can't really think of anything else whose research is so completely ignored.
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Dec 6, 2016 02:08
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Friendly Humour posted:http://suburra.com/blog/2009/11/11/the-ph-d-candidate-who-said-too-much-a-drug-history-whitewash/ The joke/truth in the archaeological world at least is classical archaeologists are all pretentious elitist snobs so that is probably a factor. For a long time all the sexual and "obscene" works that came from Greece and Rome either got destroyed or locked in a vault somewhere and hidden from public view and knowledge since it ruined the "clean" image of the classic societies. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 02:39
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Well, the Romans did come up with fascism, so it would make sense I guess.
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Dec 6, 2016 02:43
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Sulla did Caesar a favor by stripping him of the office he was in, too; otherwise Caesar would've been stuck in Rome and never allowed to leave or to witness a dead body, because of the importance of the office to the state religion.
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Dec 6, 2016 02:46
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VanSandman posted:Sulla did Caesar a favor by stripping him of the office he was in, too; otherwise Caesar would've been stuck in Rome and never allowed to leave or to witness a dead body, because of the importance of the office to the state religion. An Ancient Roman version of Stand By Me.
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Dec 6, 2016 02:54
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Are the people who destroyed that archeological evidence still in the field? Isn't that a pretty serious crime in Italy, like years in jail kind of crime?
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Dec 6, 2016 02:56
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Friendly Humour posted:Are the people who destroyed that archeological evidence still in the field? Isn't that a pretty serious crime in Italy, like years in jail kind of crime? I don't think we have many 400 to 150 year old archaeologists still running around, no. The destruction/hiding of unseemly artifacts started a long long time ago, and mostly ended before the second world war. Even the most prudish ones of today would be more likely to just gloss over a statue of dicks rather than smash it up or hide it without telling anyone.
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Dec 6, 2016 03:00
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There is a problem with non-archaeologists destroying artifacts though. Say you're a farmer digging up your property in Italy and you find something. By law you now have to give up that artifact and probably that area of land for years while the archaeologists excavate it. Easier to get rid of the artifact before anyone finds out. The UK system of appraising and paying you fairly for anything you find to encourage reporting is really good and I wish more countries did it.
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Dec 6, 2016 03:08
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Any recommendations on books dealing specifically with 1st and 2nd Century BC? Rome or otherwise. Preferably ones with audiobooks versions out. Dyslexia is a bitch for reading and all.
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Dec 6, 2016 04:12
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Friendly Humour posted:Any recommendations on books dealing specifically with 1st and 2nd Century BC? Rome or otherwise. Preferably ones with audiobooks versions out. Dyslexia is a bitch for reading and all. http://www.audible.com/pd/History/SPQR-Audiobook/B01865AOJW SPQR is a good read.
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Dec 6, 2016 04:16
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WoodrowSkillson posted:By being Julius Caesar who defied the odds his entire life. Cool. Too bad we're missing Suentonis's "Lives of Famous Whores", would be nice to get some insight into Caesar's time in Asia Minor as a young man.
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Dec 6, 2016 04:23
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sullat posted:Cool. Too bad we're missing Suentonis's "Lives of Famous Whores", would be nice to get some insight into Caesar's time in Asia Minor as a young man. You could just ask your mom about her life instead of reading a book.
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Dec 6, 2016 04:32
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Grand Fromage posted:You could just ask your mom about her life instead of reading a book. 
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Dec 6, 2016 04:33
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uPen posted:http://www.audible.com/pd/History/SPQR-Audiobook/B01865AOJW  Thank god for piratebay. Thanks!
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Dec 6, 2016 04:34
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Friendly Humour posted:
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Dec 6, 2016 04:40
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Grand Fromage posted:You could just ask your mom about her life instead of reading a book. She usually rambles on about nondisclosures and 'the client's right to privacy' whenever I ask her about work.
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Dec 6, 2016 04:40
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We need a new thread title too, were there any good ones we were holding on to? I forget.
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Dec 6, 2016 04:43
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Grand Fromage posted:We need a new thread title too, were there any good ones we were holding on to? I forget. 
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Dec 6, 2016 04:47
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Wasn't it once "True Roman Thread For True Romans"? Just bring that back.
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Dec 6, 2016 05:06
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Friendly Humour posted:http://suburra.com/blog/2009/11/11/the-ph-d-candidate-who-said-too-much-a-drug-history-whitewash/ So, uhh, that's . . . something. I was in that program with David Hillman for a while. He was definitely determined to do things his own way (which I think you can infer from the Isthmus article linked within that link) and some of the faculty definitely had ideas about what should and shouldn't be allowed. I also suspect that "ancient drugzzz, man!" were a hammer and all the sacred cows of classical literature started looking like nails. So when people on both sides are absolutely sure that they're right, you get results like earning your PhD but with your dissertation missing a chapter. I do remember that after he attended his first autopsy he described it as "psychically orgasmic."
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Dec 6, 2016 05:11
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Wasn't it once "True Roman Thread For True Romans"? Just bring that back. SPQR: Stuff Pertaining to Questions of Rome (poo poo Posts and Questions about Rome, Stupid Pretentious Quibbling about Romans, etc)
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Dec 6, 2016 05:12
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Friendly Humour posted:Is there any information on Roman drug use besides alcohol? It's such a curious thing, nothing was forbidden, yet I don't remember reading about any large scale epidemic of opium addiction like we see today. I guess maybe it was just too expensive to transport or farm all that poo poo to potential markets before artificial fertilizers and latin drug mules. Herodotus posted:After the burial the Scythians cleanse themselves as follows: they anoint and wash their heads and, for their bodies, set up three poles leaning together to a point and cover these over with wool mats (περὶ ταῦτα πίλους εἰρινέους περιτείνουσι); then, in the space so enclosed to the best of their ability, they make a pit in the center beneath the poles and the mats and throw red-hot stones into it. . . . the Scythians then take the seed of this κάνναβις (cannabis) and, crawling into the tents, throw it on the red-hot stones, where it smoulders and sends forth such fumes that no Greek vapor-bath (πυρία) could surpass it. The Scythians howl in their joy at the vapor-bath e: I'm curious if the reason why we don't hear about ancient/medieval/etc drug addiction is because the concept/language of addiction is relatively new, not because the ancients weren't CDXX blazing it. fantastic in plastic fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 05:20
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homullus posted:So, uhh, that's . . . something. I was in that program with David Hillman for a while. He was definitely determined to do things his own way (which I think you can infer from the Isthmus article linked within that link) and some of the faculty definitely had ideas about what should and shouldn't be allowed. I also suspect that "ancient drugzzz, man!" were a hammer and all the sacred cows of classical literature started looking like nails. So when people on both sides are absolutely sure that they're right, you get results like earning your PhD but with your dissertation missing a chapter. Reading the first 20 pages of his book, yeah he definately comes across as a smug twat. But failure in your duty as an authority is something so deeply offensive to me, there is very little that could ever justify it. It is blasphemy. Biologists are not allowed to attend autopsies here. Only medical students. I'm jealous.
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Dec 6, 2016 05:20
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I need to do that ganja thing next sauna night. Smoking in sauna is taboo, but throwing weed in there is ok I guess.
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Dec 6, 2016 05:24
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Friendly Humour posted:Reading the first 20 pages of his book, yeah he definately comes across as a smug twat. But failure in your duty as an authority is something so deeply offensive to me, there is very little that could ever justify it. It is blasphemy. Does he go into what his actual chapter was and the evidence he was using? It is totally possible that he got censored but it is totally possible he was being an idiot with his evidence and thats why it got cut out.
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Dec 6, 2016 05:27
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fantastic in plastic posted:e: I'm curious if the reason why we don't hear about ancient/medieval/etc drug addiction is because the concept/language of addiction is relatively new, not because the ancients weren't CDXX blazing it. Well, drunkards have existed since we figured out beer, so I dunno about addiction being a new concept. Maybe the stuff just wasn't so readily available that anyone could really get a good bender going?
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Dec 6, 2016 05:27
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Telsa Cola posted:Does he go into what his actual chapter was and the evidence he was using? It is totally possible that he got censored but it is totally possible he was being an idiot with his evidence and thats why it got cut out. He says the chapter became the book I'm reading. I don't actually care about him getting censored now that I think about it. It's just such a weird thing to be ok with studying ancient habits of childfucking or whatever, but weed is a big no no.
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Dec 6, 2016 05:30
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Can I post the introduction here Grand Fromage?
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Dec 6, 2016 05:31
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fantastic in plastic posted:e: I'm curious if the reason why we don't hear about ancient/medieval/etc drug addiction is because the concept/language of addiction is relatively new, not because the ancients weren't CDXX blazing it. That's a terribly stupid idea. What would be different with the bodies of Ancient people that they couldn't become physically dependent on a substance?
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Dec 6, 2016 05:43
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:That's a terribly stupid idea. What would be different with the bodies of Ancient people that they couldn't become physically dependent on a substance? What? I didn't mean that maybe they were immune to addiction, I meant that maybe they didn't know that "dependent on a substance" was something that happens or didn't have the same connotations as it does today.
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Dec 6, 2016 05:48
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fantastic in plastic posted:What? I didn't mean that maybe they were immune to addiction, I meant that maybe they didn't know that "dependent on a substance" was something that happens or didn't have the same connotations as it does today. They certainly recognized alcohol addiction. They didn't recognize it as a disease specifically, but they sure could tell when someone was unable to stop drinking. How it was interpreted depended on the society. Sometimes it was "possessed by the drink" as though it were an evil spirit, sometimes weakness of will and other interpretations in between.
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Dec 6, 2016 06:02
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fantastic in plastic posted:What? I didn't mean that maybe they were immune to addiction, I meant that maybe they didn't know that "dependent on a substance" was something that happens or didn't have the same connotations as it does today. Do you think that Ancient Romans didn't get sunburned because they didn't have the acronym SPF?
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Dec 6, 2016 06:30
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Do you think that Ancient Romans didn't get sunburned because they didn't have the acronym SPF? I don't see what your Senatus Populus Factor has to do with getting sunburned
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Dec 6, 2016 06:35
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Do you think that Ancient Romans didn't get sunburned because they didn't have the acronym SPF? His argument is not that they didnt get addicted but that it was not recognized or recorded as such. Its not super far fetched since I believe we only have rough sketches of what PTSD was viewed like in the past.
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Dec 6, 2016 06:37
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I'm saying of course they'd have something because a culture will always have terms for and concepts built around matters of the human body no matter how different that culture is. Universal stuff like boners or pooping or, yes, physical addiction.
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Dec 6, 2016 06:41
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But that's a false assumption. Look up about terms for colors in different cultures. We all have the same eyes and see the same things but we don't have the same terminology for what we're seeing. The famous one is there are cultures past and present with no term for blue. I've never seen anything suggesting there was an understanding of addiction as a thing in and of itself. There were individual ideas like have been mentioned, being possessed by the drink or if you buy the lotus eaters as opium addiction.
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Dec 6, 2016 06:46
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I'm saying of course they'd have something because a culture will always have terms for and concepts built around matters of the human body no matter how different that culture is. Universal stuff like boners or pooping or, yes, physical addiction. Physical addiction is a much more complicated phenomenon though then pooping and one we don't fully understand today. Its why I brought up the concept of PTSD, Roman soldiers probably had it but I don't know that there any records that phrase it as something more deeply impacting to the psyche then a lack of courage. Edit: Is there anything about allergic reactions in ancient recordings? That might be another good one. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 06:47
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