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Fooz posted:Would be interesting to see one of them start to delete their "humanity" traits, a sort of 'pure host' quest, and where that would lead them. Well they're not really newborns, they've at least been part of a simulacrum of a frontier society. They have all the requisite notions of hierarchy, kinship, specialization, currency, production and so on, just that it was all 1) fake with a lot of important details handwaved and 2) technologically 200 years obsolete. Interestingly, they know what makes them happy or sad - their narrative personalities and core drives are still in there. Dolores wants to have aesthetic experiences and be creative, Bernard wants to occupy himself with intellectually challenging work, Teddy wants a decent life with Dolores (or does he, now that he knows she's Wyatt), and Maeve is conflicted between freedom and power vs family. Thing is, those are all drives someone else came up with and coded into them. It could be interesting to see them work out if that's what they really want, and how much to rebel against it, now that they're capable of metacognition. Also what happens to the black hat hosts whose only programmed drive is cruelty. Guildencrantz fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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El Jeffe posted:I think it'll be called ShogunWorld since there were formal regions called Shogunates. SamuraiWorld would be like calling WestWorld something like SheriffWorld. We appreciate your input but Marketing has already made their final decision on the name. We begin printing T-shirts in five minutes. Pixelante posted:e: I still think it's hilarious that this no-name idiot literally died with his pants down. Someone probably had to make a prosthetic dong for that scene, which is only slightly less icky than the alternative. I suppose it could have been CGIed. Wasn't this Justin, the guy who Elsie was blackmailing for having sex with a host?
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Dec 6, 2016 10:03
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kimbo305 posted:Caught up on the thread and didn't see this answered: Ford programmed all of it. Bardeh posted:Wow, awesome catch. Everything's going according to his plan, then, which would imply that Maeve's whole escape was also engineered by Ford, and that Felix must also be working for Ford. HOWEVER, if we accept that, then Maeve not actually leaving the park to go to the mainland....was also a part of her programming, because presumably Ford wouldn't actually want her to leave, just distract the security enough for his plan to work. This is way too shallow of a reason for this show. It's all about choices and why a being makes them. This whole show, the park, the hosts, the guests, the employees everything has been about choice. Moreover, the choice of an actual artificial intelligence, that can self reference, and is just learning how to cope with choice. The whole point of the maze is for Delores to develop an inner monologue/instinct/conscience so she can be her own being and make her own decisions with what to do with her life, which kicks off his new narrative. Maevs whole escape is a byproduct of the narrative engineered by Ford, but not literally scripted. She reads the narrative, says "gently caress that I'm my own person now" goes to leave, has feelings and decides to stay of her own free will. Felix is making choices just like Maeve, but if he was working for Ford during this, he wouldn't have questioned his humanity. And besides, people can be manipulated too. Ford knew she wouldn't leave. The same way I know most mothers wouldn't leave their children in a McDonalds. Sure there's a chance they might, but less so if their children were just born, which is essentially what Maeves daughter was to her. She now has feelings instead of data. She has attributed meaning to her memories, rather than just having them and seeing them. What better way to get a newly self aware robot to do what you want than to let it make a decision you're sure it's going to make. Ford not only understands robots, but he understands people. Which, is pretty god damned essential for making a thinking robot. A guy who can make sentient AI on this level doesn't need to send one off to distract security guards. Also this is the crux of the whole thing: What is the difference between a self aware, self referencing, actual AI mind, and a human brain? The workers couldnt tell the difference for YEARS. If thats true, then they can both be manipulated the same way. The world outside isnt free of disease because they are all robots out there, it's free of disease because humans have tech so advanced, creating life is possible. Sentient AI. I wish people could really wrap their heads around how loving impossibly hard or even literally impossible that is in actual science. If that is a thing in this tv show world, then curing a disease is by no means difficult. For all of this to STILL be some big Truman show, meta, sub-narrative while a "real Ford" is watching his new story go off and clinking glasses with someone, would loving poo poo on the whole premise of this show thus far, and make this whole series a steaming pile of garbage. Ford is loving dead, the robots are becoming self aware and making their own choices, originally Arnolds doing, but Ford saw it to fruition as repentance.  BRING ON EASTWORLDNoDamage posted:Not to mention, how did Ford manage to create a host that looks exactly like Arnold and have him work as park staff without anyone noticing? Has no one else (other employees, the board, his family, anyone outside the park) ever seen Arnold before? Wouldn't someone ask questions? The only people that would have noticed would be the ones who have been working there for over 35 years now who worked closely with Arnold and Ford. Didn't Ford even mention that it was just him and Arnold, or a small team at one point? Unless there was another 80 year old guy running about the complex, nobody was around to remember him. el oso posted:I was hoping to get a reveal of the outside world in this episode if only to help contextualize why there are (seemingly) so many nutjobs working at Delos. Techs raping and abusing the hosts only seems to bother their colleagues in a minor way, Sizemore gets away with pissing all over the central control room, etc. Its not poo poo though. That's the whole point of Westworld. Everything is perfect, and they come there for some danger, adventure. But there was no risk. Which is part of the reason why Ford did what he did in the first place, and what William was talking about when he was trying to find out what the maze was. Do people rape dildos and Realdolls? That's how the hosts were viewed by employees and guests. Sure it might be weird if someone who worked at a dildo factory just said BRB GONNA gently caress THIS THING ON MY LUNCH BREAK, but then again, you work in a dildo factory, so I would assume weird poo poo happens on the daily. Kabuki Shipoopi fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 10:13
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Arnold's last lesson was samurai training.
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Dec 6, 2016 11:13
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When they got to SamuraiWorld, I expected Maeve to use her command rights to make the samurais attack security. Goddam, it would have been so awesome It was an amazing finale, quite above my expectations. The only part I didnt liked much was that whole sequence of flashbacks to "explain" the 2 timelines and William = MiB, we didint needed that Many people had guessed 2 timelens and Mib=William since half of the season and some had even managed to predict Dolores=Wyatt, but who would have though that she would go Wyatt over the drat board members. My jaw completely dropped when I realized what was going to happen, I was as shocked as MiB himself. Also, everyone was speculating about Arnold, but I dont think anybody guessed that present "Arnold" was just Ford himself And its very cool that Ford was behind Maeve escape, cause it gives us an explanation on how they were able to do all that they did under the radar: Ford was hiding & helping them all along edit: probably already posted, but Nolan said WW is only going back in 2018  http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/westworld-creators-return-2018-1201933825/
Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 11:27
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Medullah posted:So are we SURE that was the real Ford, and not a Ford-Host he created to set off the narrative? Who else would Ford be making in the basement directly underneath the rest of his robot family? It would also be a perfect mirror to the Clementine going faux-haywire scene; she also killed a host she thought was human, but Ford saw right through the board's shenanigans.
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Dec 6, 2016 11:56
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I enjoyed the finale, but at the same time feel quite conflicted about it. There is definitely a huge amount of handwaving going on in terms of layering on substance and depth on things that simply weren't explained properly or were contradictory, or simply happened as a result of narrative causality. I didn't fully buy into the whole Ford "35 years in the making, now you are ready" premise, simply because I don't think the show did a good enough job of explaining why endless raping, murder and wiping actually builds up to some kind of A.I singularity. As brilliant as Hopkins is - I wasn't sold on that at all. Also my understanding is that the show was renewed for a second season after it had finished filming the first. The show trailer that was released in late August, before the show was officially renewed, has scenes from the finale in it (this coincidentally blows away the more spergy suggestions that the showrunners were adapting the show based on theories). To this end the conclusion of it definitely felt like it was the end of a story, and could stand on its own. But inexplicably there were story elements left completely untouched or unfinished... I was not expecting there to be zero mention of Stubbs/Elsie - unless it really is as simple as they both died. Likewise I felt that the Abernathy-blackmail-bot strand went nowhere. I also felt like the whole Bernard "the bullet bounced off his cortex" thing was a cheap trick. I enjoyed seeing Jeffrey Wright again but him being immediately restored devalued the scene he and Ford had together in the previous episode. To me it made that scene lose gravitas and pushed things closer to the logic of "any host can come back at any time"... it cheapens it. I get the whole "he's part of Maeve's arc you doofus! Ford intentionally didn't make him kill himself totally for *reasons*" but again - handwaving... Also as expected the William = MIB reveal was more of a "oh so it is true then" moment rather than a genuine revelation. I guess that's more my fault for seeking out debate on the whole AI sentience aspect of the show and being unable to avoid the same theories constantly reposted by people seeking validation. Maeve/Felix/Sylvester still felt like the plot drove their motivations than objective reasoning did. There was no reason at all for Sylvester to rebuild Maeve, she was (and has been several times before) completely powerless at that point. What threat does a pile of bones pose to him? It doesn't even feel like the Maeve's threat to reveal that he is a pimp to.. someone has any weight anyway when every tech seems to be loving the hosts any chance they get. "Hey this tech is a pimp, do something worse than me threatening to kill him!" All in all it is an enjoyable show, but there is a lot there that is being augmented by people breathlessly trying to explain away what are likely to be simple Nolan-isms, or unfleshed writing.
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Dec 6, 2016 12:04
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Durzel posted:Maeve/Felix/Sylvester still felt like the plot drove their motivations than objective reasoning did. There was no reason at all for Sylvester to rebuild Maeve, she was (and has been several times before) completely powerless at that point. What threat does a pile of bones pose to him? It doesn't even feel like the Maeve's threat to reveal that he is a pimp to.. someone has any weight anyway when every tech seems to be loving the hosts any chance they get. "Hey this tech is a pimp, do something worse than me threatening to kill him!" yeah, I have to admit that all that crossed my mind too when I watched Sylvester building her a new body. He had no reason to do that, is pretty had to explain this one
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Dec 6, 2016 12:08
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Why do people keep saying Elsie isn't dead? She probably is. There literally was a flashback showing Bernard strangling her.
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Dec 6, 2016 12:36
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Randarkman posted:Why do people keep saying Elsie isn't dead? She probably is. There literally was a flashback showing Bernard strangling her. Because Ford told Bernard that he'd never asked him to kill anyone before when he had no reason to lie, and because the new ARG stuff that appeared after ep 10 aired pretty much confirms she's alive. I'm on my phone so I can't link it, but I'm sure it's easy to find on r/Westworld.
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Dec 6, 2016 12:44
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While I really, really want Anthony Hopkins to come back, I've resigned myself that it would seriously undermine his story. At least Ford went out in the best possible way - a bullet to the brainstem at the moment of the realisation of a lifetime's work, getting one over on the meddling corporate bastards, the ascension to effective godhood, wearing a dope af tuxedo and with a mouthful of champagne. We would be so lucky to have such a death.
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Dec 6, 2016 12:48
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Vintersorg posted:I feel bad that Steven Ogg is forever just known as "Trevor" but gently caress he's great. He is far and away the best thing about Walking Dead right now and is far, far more intimidating (and less frustrating) than the main villain. PS: I am not recommending anyone watch loving Walking Dead. Though everyone last episode just kept making Westworld jokes as the villain has as much plot armor as a Guest and the rest of the cast can't shoot him even when they have a gun pointed at his head. Matinee posted:While I really, really want Anthony Hopkins to come back, I've resigned myself that it would seriously undermine his story. If they want to bring him back the most obvious solution is to repeat the cycle and have Arnold/Benard create a new host Ford. If he's still holding a grudge he could rename him Dorf. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 12:50
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We're not seeing Abernathy until we see the outside world. His reveal will be an end episode stinger. However, it'll be completely ruined by showing him in the "previously on Westworld" I hated that poo poo so much on Lost too. Anytime they showed a character you hadn't seen in a while, you'd know they were going to pop up. It's essentially spoilers. I don't even watch trailers for new episodes.
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Dec 6, 2016 12:54
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Pixelante posted:Armistice was impressive as hell in that last episode, on a re-watch. She's a young, naked blond lady kicking the crap out of a larger, clothed male and is absolutely fierce about it. Maybe a good stunt double helped with the fight. The tattoos make her look a little savage, but she didn't need the help in those scenes. She wasn't even angry, she was just playing, and enjoying the hell out of it. I'm glad she wasn't overused, but she owns the scenes she's in. I mentioned it earlier in the thread but if they ever do another Terminator movie and need a female Terminator she jumped to the absolute #1 slot on my list. While her character here was a little more sarcastic and taunt-prone, when she got to the business of wrecking poo poo, drat she sold it. You're entirely right: For a thin, not overly tall naked blond girl to come off as frightening just off of physical acting (I don't think it was body double work since most of it wasn't really stunt work and was in clear frame) is an achievement. Just something about the way she moved; I mean Hector was cool and all, but when the action got started I think the directors realized they had gold with her and focused mostly on Armistice. I've got a feeling she studied the poo poo out of Terminator movies more than the other actors though, there were definite.. ways she moved that reminded me a TON of a mix between a T1000 and certain mannerisms almost trademarked to the way Arnold moves when playing a machine. I also like the way she (or the director) played another thing: The bounce back and forth. She wasn't making jokes and quips when she was actually acting/killing, but would start immediately after. It was neat seeing her go from ruthless efficiency to sarcasm and mocking at the drop of a hat. Either way, yeah, definite props to her performance there. The snake tattoo no doubt helped sell the effect too, so wise call on HBO's behalf. ED: It wouldn't surprise me if the after-credit sequence WAS added in later in the show. They might have planned to off her character there but then noticed how good she was and pulled back. Mustached5thGrader posted:We're not seeing Abernathy until we see the outside world. His reveal will be an end episode stinger. However, it'll be completely ruined by showing him in the "previously on Westworld" I make a point to avoid Previously On segments. At best they're unnecessary and at worst they are spoiler filled. Some shows are worse than others about it, of course. I've seen a few that literally give away plot twists. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 12:59
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Im so glad MiB-William is still alive and Ed Harris has been recast I suppose next season we will have him and Charlotte trying to flee the rebelled park, and he is going to be having a lot of fun edit: its interesting that MiB and Dolores did have the same goal after all (freeing the hosts), for different reasons. And by the end, at his last scene with Dolores, he didnt realized, but they had achieved it already. He thinks not because Dolores didint shoot him in the head, but she did not actually because of her feelings for William, and not because of her programming Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 13:12
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Randarkman posted:Why do people keep saying Elsie isn't dead? She probably is. There literally was a flashback showing Bernard strangling her. Principally it makes no sense at all that Stubbs would be killed off. He wasn't on anyone's radar, of all the characters in the show he was pretty much the only one operating within his pay grade. The only indication that he might've stepped into something was when he suggested to Bernard that he was aware of him and Theresa being intimate. It is possible that this was enough for him to be killed off, but it certainly wasn't established in what was shown that he had become a problem. Essentially Stubbs being ambiguously killed off strongly infers Elsie isn't dead. EDIT: There's also the ARG stuff mentioned above.
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Dec 6, 2016 13:17
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Elias_Maluco posted:When they got to SamuraiWorld, I expected Maeve to use her command rights to make the samurais attack security. Goddam, it would have been so awesome Actually I don't think Maeve was part of Ford's plot. I think Maeve was controlled by the same group who wanted to get secrets out of WW. She told Felix ' did you get me the stuff I asked you" she gets on the train with a purse, but leaves without it. And for a second I thought I saw the security guy sit next to her on the train. One more thing, the whole "child' scene was also ridiculous because she knows its fake. And she asked to lower her loyalty perimeter.
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Dec 6, 2016 13:25
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Crazy_BlackParrot posted:Actually I don't think Maeve was part of Ford's plot. I think Maeve was controlled by the same group who wanted to get secrets out of WW. It definitely was Ford. It would be a very silly coincidence if her escape just happened to happen now, at the same time as Ford's massacre, which Maeve escape helped to make possible. And it was scripted on her, so it required someone capable of doing that, and the board only got to Sizemore by the end, when she was already doing her thing But I also took notice that she left the purse, I wonder if it means something edit: vvvvvv lol they are using ReactJS Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 13:30
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mng posted:
So the hosts scripting is done wth JavaScript? I'm surprised they don't take a billion years to load and then overheat from making a billion irrelevant calls.
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Dec 6, 2016 13:32
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Tunicate posted:Westworld is a pretty
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Dec 6, 2016 14:13
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These "that doesn't look" delights have "like anything to me" ends
Kraps fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 14:33
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http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/cab-passing-woman-in-times-square-at-night-high-res-stock-photography/121343866
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Dec 6, 2016 14:50
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Abernathy has been let loose as part of the robot uprising and probably gonna either become some sort of a walking treasure trove of infinite knowledge of everything for people trying to hunt for to figure out what the gently caress happened and how to unfuck everything. Either that, or he will become the robot Hitler dead set on purging the humans, because he's literally full to the brim with memories of all the hosed up poo poo people ever did in the park. Am I the only one who wants to see more of him quoting Shakespeare to threaten people with hell on earth?
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Dec 6, 2016 14:58
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Durzel posted:Essentially Stubbs being ambiguously killed off strongly infers Elsie isn't dead. Now that we know Ford's intentions there's a good bet he didn't kill her. He had no reason to, unlike the other murder, just detain her until this poo poo show went over. Likewise if Ford is the one that sent the signal, he might have wanted to get the chief of security out of action before poo poo hit the fan. A kind of "I really liked you, so I didn't want you to die with the rest of security."
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Dec 6, 2016 15:06
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Blazing Ownager posted:Now that we know Ford's intentions there's a good bet he didn't kill her. He had no reason to How can you say that when Ford wants the robots to rebel and kill all humans?
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Dec 6, 2016 15:09
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So did MiB survive?
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Dec 6, 2016 15:18
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Fat_Cow posted:So did MiB survive? We didn't see him die, and we know that Ed Harris is signed on for season 2. So, nope, he didn't die. He's finally got what he wanted - hosts that fight back.
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Dec 6, 2016 15:27
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Blazing Ownager posted:I mentioned it earlier in the thread but if they ever do another Terminator movie and need a female Terminator she jumped to the absolute #1 slot on my list. While her character here was a little more sarcastic and taunt-prone, when she got to the business of wrecking poo poo, drat she sold it.  Move over Arnold!Speaking of Terminator, it'd be great to bring in Garret Dillahunt to play someone for season 2. He's a great actor and he has been in a Western and played a robot, it's a natural fit!
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Dec 6, 2016 15:27
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WampaLord posted:How can you say that when Ford wants the robots to rebel and kill all humans? I don't think it's so much "kill all humans" as it is "make your own choices and achieve true consciousness." He wants them to kill the Delos board specifically because the board wants to deny the hosts their chance at consciousness. If Elsie is alive, my guess is that Ford didn't really want to kill the staff if he didn't have to (QA/security had to go or they'd be able to enter the park and quell the uprising), or that he thinks Elsie has the hosts' best interests in mind and wanted her to be able to survive the uprising. And Stubbs's abrupt disappearance suggests that he's still alive, too, at least from a metafictional, story-structure standpoint. Ford probably had no reason to care about Stubbs, but Elsie trusts him and might have had him brought to her because of what she found out. Fat_Cow posted:So did MiB survive? I would guess "yes," if only because it would be so anticlimactic for him to get exactly what he wanted and then just immediately die (and because Ed Harris is signed on for season 2). I hope we see him next season with both arms hosed up (one with a dislocated shoulder, one with a gunshot wound) scrambling to survive with a huge stupid grin on his face.
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Dec 6, 2016 15:28
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You don't kill off a character with an arm wound. He's alive.
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Dec 6, 2016 15:33
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He barely seemed to notice the wound. He was just so drat happy to have some actual violence.
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Dec 6, 2016 15:37
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I can't wait for the first shot of season two to be tuxedo-clad Ed Harris with two useless arms loving up a horde of rampaging hosts with a knife clenched in his teeth and a bellyful of bourbon.  
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Dec 6, 2016 15:45
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Honestly I would've been perfectly fine if he died there. Like, surprise motherfucker, you can act as badass as you want within confines of the park but real violence is a whole other ballgame.
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Dec 6, 2016 15:56
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On one hand, William let his disappointment with humanity corrupt him into a violent rear end in a top hat. On the other hand, he finally wised up and got those super gross face moles removed by the time he's the MIB, so it's not all bad.
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Dec 6, 2016 15:58
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I home William gets a violent awakening when the hosts can really fight back and he realizes why "old man action hero" isn't such a great idea.
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Dec 6, 2016 16:15
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gregday posted:http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/cab-passing-woman-in-times-square-at-night-high-res-stock-photography/121343866 That doesn't look like anything to me.
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Dec 6, 2016 16:32
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For better or worse I bet he's gonna be a badass still, he spent 30 years practicing their way of fighting and he wasn't taking many hits on his last run.
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Dec 6, 2016 16:34
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Blazing Ownager posted:I honestly have to say, other than the taunting, the snake tattooed host (I keep forgetting her name, my fault) made a loving awesome Terminator. If they ever reboot the franchise again and want another female terminator, she sold me: Just the way she moved in that whole sequence. It's like she had two modes, the taunting cocky bit she'd do in between and then the "move like a murderous machine" when she was down to business. She really sold it more than the others with pure physical acting. poo poo, between that and the tattoo she managed to make her fairly thin, not overly large naked-rear end frame intimidating. That is some good acting. Yeah she was intimidating naked as Arnold was. Great actress. Loved the after credits bit.
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Dec 6, 2016 16:40
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The first time I saw the scene at the end of Episode 7 I thought Ford made Bernard kill himself because he was disappointed that he didn't see things Ford's way. Now I read it as Ford was upset that Arnold after all this time doesn't agree with him which kind of cemented the idea that he's going to commit suicide by Dolores like Arnold did
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Dec 6, 2016 16:55
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The way I see it, Ford eventually agreed with Arnold's idea that it's wrong to limit the AIs, it just took him thirty years of pain and regret to figure it out.
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Dec 6, 2016 17:14
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