|
TheLoquid posted:Well, sure. I can't deny that my own preferences are probably coloring my analysis, but I don't think it's fair to reduce it to that. The council test sequence doesn't work for me because it doesn't fit in the movie at all outside of our meta knowledge that Anakin is headed towards Vadertown. Maybe it's the actor's limitations, but he doesn't play as angry or fearful, or even as using bravado to compensate for those feelings. He generally plays a happy, determined kid, and the traits Yoda throws out don't have any impact whatsoever on Anakin's actions in TPM. In fact, the whole exercise of taking Anakin to the Jedi council is pretty broadly useless, since Qui Gonn brings him along anyway and Yoda agrees to allow the child to be trained. If Anakin still harbored a grudge against the Jedi for rejecting him in later movies it may have been a worthwhile plot thread, but I don't remember it even being touched upon in the following movies.I mean great, we get a scene where the Jedi acknowledge that Anakin is dangerous. But it never leads to any action or plot point later, so why is it there? This is the highest quality version I could find with some quick Youtubing, just so we both know what we're working off of here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhOy4nPzOgU Firstly, I can't give any retort to your saying that it doesn't fit apart from meta knowledge because I simply disagree--and if I'm honest, I don't understand that critique. Their whole point was getting Padme to Coruscant and once they got there it made perfect sense for Qui-Gon to want to get Anakin checked out. So setting that aside, if you don't think Jake Lloyd hit the mark there, then I disagree there too. He reads to me exactly like what a kid that young would act like when taken from home and put in a deeply weird situation. I think where you're tripping up is thinking that the test is just the little computer flash cards. In the scene we see, Anakin outright fails the test--Yoda and Ki Adi Mundi say it themselves "this kid is way too scared and way too attached" Ultimately, I really believe you're reading the scene wrong. It's not meant to communicate that Anakin is gifted, it's meant to tell us about the Jedi Council and how right from the get-go they don't accept this kid.
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 06:06 |
|
|
MrBigglesworth posted:Y-WINGS all up in this mutha gently caress yes. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:16
|
|
|
Hopefully the Wishbones get to do something cool instead of just fly straight and get shot by Vader.  Hell, remind people they're Fighter/Bombers, not the slow POS pigs the old EU made them out to be.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:16
|
|
|
Galaga Galaxian posted:Hopefully the Wishbones get to do something cool instead of just fly straight and get shot by Vader. Well the closest analogue there is is the TBF Avenger, where the X-Wings are Wildcats. Avenger had forward facing guns but were slow hogs too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:19
|
|
|
Phi230 posted:Well the closest analogue there is is the TBF Avenger, where the X-Wings are Wildcats. Avenger had forward facing guns but were slow hogs too. I hadn't made that connection, but that's a good call. That might have been the inspiration for the X-wings folding wings, as well. For those who don't know, the Wildcat's wings could fold back, which let the Navy fir more of them on their aircraft carriers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:23
|
|
|
I prefer to think of Y-Wings more like WW2 twin-engine heavy fighters. Yes I know they weren't exactly great dogfighters either.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:23
|
|
|
Waffles Inc. posted:So setting that aside, if you don't think Jake Lloyd hit the mark there, then I disagree there too. He reads to me exactly like what a kid that young would act like when taken from home and put in a deeply weird situation. Would it surprise you to find out that people don't enjoy realistic portrayals of 7 year olds? Like, lets run with your belief that he nailed the role, how is it more enjoyable to watch a 7 year old be scared of a bunch of weird old aliens boring into his soul vs. a young adult deflecting laser blasts with a laser sword while blindfolded?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:24
|
|
|
Schwarzwald posted:I hadn't made that connection, but that's a good call. That might have been the inspiration for the X-wings folding wings, as well. it also makes sense because the Battle of Yavin is analogous to the Battle of Midway
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:28
|
|
|
ARC-170s are P-61s, that's all I have to say on that. And that TIEs are totally Zeroes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:32
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Duh21XGKfOE
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:33
|
|
|
child actors are almost universally bad, except in few circumstances such as Stranger Things, Krampus, The Gate, ET, The VVitch, Harry Potter, Home Alone, and finally off the top of my head, Empire of The Sun
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:34
|
|
|
Filthy Casual posted:Would it surprise you to find out that people don't enjoy realistic portrayals of 7 year olds? Like, lets run with your belief that he nailed the role, how is it more enjoyable to watch a 7 year old be scared of a bunch of weird old aliens boring into his soul vs. a young adult deflecting laser blasts with a laser sword while blindfolded? Sorry to be so flippant about this but: so what? You can't judge any individual film on what you think it should be. Why would you hold against a film the fact that it didn't do something from your own headcanon? I just don't understand it. Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace does indeed not have "a young adult deflecting laser blasts with a laser sword while blindfolded", you're right. And so?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:37
|
|
|
Waffles Inc. posted:This is the highest quality version I could find with some quick Youtubing, just so we both know what we're working off of here I think you're misreading my critique, which is that the scene is boring and doesn't work to advance the plot of the the movie or build the characters in the scene. Like when does it matter at all in the movie that Anakin is home sick and is worried about his mom? It comes up when he has a vision of her dying in the next movie, but it doesn't motivate him or guide his decisions in any way in TPM - or in between the movies, when he trains as a Jedi while his mom lives in slavery. The council rejects him, except they still let Obi Wan train him and there doesn't appear to be any bitterness over this specific incident in later movies. Even the test is boring as hell and it's pretty awful that I have no idea how Anakin performed on the test. Rather than having some kind of action going on onscreen to anchor the scene, we have a kid awkwardly standing in front of a bunch of aliens we don't know telling him (and us) what he's feeling, to no apparent end. And that's just the first scene that popped into my head to contrast some of the conference/hall scenes in the OT, which generally have some big plot importance or action that controls the flow of the scene. Action is good because it's less boringer than poorly acted and written conversation. e: again, this is all an exercise to contrast similar scenes between the PT and OT. In the OT, we get Luke TheLoquid fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Dec 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:59
|
|
|
Waffles Inc. posted:Sorry to be so flippant about this but: so what? You can't judge any individual film on what you think it should be. Why would you hold against a film the fact that it didn't do something from your own headcanon? Those are the first real tests of the force for each of the main characters, the closest analogue to Anakin's scene at the council is Luke training with the blast shield down. The latter is more enjoyable because it features more action instead of a bunch of weird old dudes telling 7 year old how he should be feeling. Ain't even head canon, its a comparison between two existing scenes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 00:05
|
|
|
Phi230 posted:child actors are almost universally bad, except in few circumstances such as Aliens yo
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 00:10
|
|
|
TheLoquid posted:I think you're misreading my critique, which is that the scene is boring and doesn't work to advance the plot of the the movie or build the characters in the scene. Like when does it matter at all in the movie that Anakin is home sick and is worried about his mom? It comes up when he has a vision of her dying in the next movie, but it doesn't motivate him or guide his decisions in any way. The council rejects him, except they still let Obi Wan train him and there doesn't appear to be any bitterness over this specific incident in later movies. Even the test is boring as hell and it's pretty awful that I have no idea how Anakin performed on the test. Rather than having some kind of action going on onscreen to anchor the scene, we have a kid awkwardly standing in front of a bunch of aliens we don't know telling him (and us) what he's feeling, to no apparent end. Without bringing in the sequels, it doesn't matter tremendously that Anakin is home sick and is worried about his mother (beyond what that says about his character, which isn't nothing). But the scene isn't just about Anakin, it's also about the Jedi Council and Qui-gon Jin. You said you have no idea how Anakin performed on the test, but the rest of the scene (that isn't caught on that short clip) does tell us how he performed. He failed, but not because of any lack of ability but because he was fearful. This tells us that the Jedi Council doesn't place as much esteem on power as they do on self-control, to the degree that they'll refuse a promising candidate because are too emotional. The fact that Qui-gon Jin slyly skirts around the Jedi Council's refusal to educate Anakin, by not directly teaching him but allowing him to learn from example, also tells about about Qui-gon, how he operates, and his relationship with the Jedi Council. All these things do have direct ramifications for the rest of the film, even if there is no immediate payoff with Anakin.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 00:21
|
|
|
HannibalBarca posted:Aliens yo oh poo poo youre right, throw Road Warrior in there too
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 00:40
|
|
|
TheLoquid posted:Well, sure. I can't deny that my own preferences are probably coloring my analysis, but I don't think it's fair to reduce it to that. The council test sequence doesn't work for me because it doesn't fit in the movie at all outside of our meta knowledge that Anakin is headed towards Vadertown. Maybe it's the actor's limitations, but he doesn't play as angry or fearful, or even as using bravado to compensate for those feelings. Because he's not. "How do you feel?" "Cold". "I sense great fear in you" Yeah okay, buddy, maybe after you started throwing accusations and veiled threats. The council's expectations and prejudices drive the scene, which frustrates everyone important to the movie. Anakin is a kid living in the moment, a true expression of The Force. The scene tells us these dumb Jedi will be a problem (Mace Windu especially).
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 01:00
|
|
|
sassassin posted:Because he's not. "How do you feel?" "Cold". "I sense great fear in you" Yeah okay, buddy, maybe after you started throwing accusations and veiled threats. Hm I guess I always sided with the wise sages who accurately identified that the kid who will later kill all of them will be trouble down the road
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 01:17
|
|
|
The killing them all was half the Jedi's fault for royally mishandling him though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 01:40
|
|
|
The Jedi don't get credit for being right about Anakin because they had a direct hand in making it happen. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 01:42
|
|
|
Gonz posted:Alan Tudyk is perfect for that role. He's a weight in the wind, watch how he bricks.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 01:59
|
|
|
Filthy Casual posted:Those are the first real tests of the force for each of the main characters, the closest analogue to Anakin's scene at the council is Luke training with the blast shield down. The latter is more enjoyable because it features more action instead of a bunch of weird old dudes telling 7 year old how he should be feeling. Ain't even head canon, its a comparison between two existing scenes. A bunch of weird old dudes telling him how he should be feeling, which frightens him. Later, a mentor deliberately keeping him from seeing, so he makes it up with intuition. This is a neat summary of the difference in the outcomes of Anakin's and Luke's respective training.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 02:04
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:A bunch of weird old dudes telling him how he should be feeling, which frightens him. Later, a mentor deliberately keeping him from seeing, so he makes it up with intuition. This is a neat summary of the difference in the outcomes of Anakin's and Luke's respective training. So does it surprise you at all that a lot of people strongly prefer the latter than the former?
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 02:14
|
|
|
I like the "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate" line
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 02:28
|
|
|
Phi230 posted:child actors are almost universally bad, except in few circumstances such as Child actors are bad, except in a whole bunch of movies. All I hear from you is: Child actors are bad if they are in movies called Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 03:41
|
|
|
Filthy Casual posted:So does it surprise you at all that a lot of people strongly prefer the latter than the former? They complement each other. Parts of a whole.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 03:54
|
|
|
UmOk posted:Child actors are bad, except in a whole bunch of movies. There are literally hundreds of movies that have child actors that are loving terrible don't be myopic the around 2 dozen movies w/ children that are good are a drop in the bucket of the hundreds
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 04:02
|
|
|
Actually the Harry Potter actors are pretty terrible until about the 4th movie to be honest. At least they progress naturally to be okay actors with each movie. Not to mention serious acting isn't even needed until about the 5th or 6th movie due to the depth (or lack thereof) of the stories in the early volumes. Rupert Grint is the only one who's got a semblance of ability in the first movie and that's mostly because he's the only one written with any comedy involved.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 04:23
|
|
|
Phi230 posted:There are literally hundreds of movies that have child actors that are loving terrible don't be myopic What makes Macaulay Culkin good in Home Alone?
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 04:24
|
|
|
The scenes of Anakin afraid while being tested absolutely set up the Starship Troopers / Ender's Game ending where this child is coerced into killing like a half-million 'bugs'.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 04:29
|
|
|
I like how Mace's iPad that Anakin is trying to guess pictures off of has the exact landspeeder that the Naboo royal security dudes have. Like they had the wireframe CGI on hand and just chucked it in. I wonder if the cup on his screen has a wookieepedia page.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 04:42
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:The scenes of Anakin afraid while being tested absolutely set up the Starship Troopers / Ender's Game ending where this child is coerced into killing like a half-million 'bugs'. What makes you say it's coercion? I've thought one of the most clever parts of the ending to TPM is that Anakin soars into action, strikes the enemy's weak point, and saves the day—but unlike Luke in ANH, he does so entirely by accident. Luke learns to put aside his doubts and trust in the Force; Anakin misses this lesson because, as far as he knows, he just got ridiculously lucky.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 04:45
|
|
|
Zoran posted:What makes you say it's coercion? It's a poignant moment because the child says "Now this is podracing." He thinks he's in a podracer. He's real-time repressing the horrors that the war is forcing him to commit. Did I do that right, smg-san? Have I defended the garbage movie well? PostNouveau fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Dec 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 04:50
|
|
|
"Whoa what's this button do?" The small child explained, unaware that with his curious press of a button he just committed the largest act of robicide in the galaxy. "OOPS!" He smirked. dialhforhero fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Dec 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 04:50
|
|
|
But it's okay though. Robots aren't people.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 04:52
|
|
|
dialhforhero posted:But it's okay though. Robots aren't people.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 04:57
|
|
|
PostNouveau posted:It's a poignant moment because the child says "Now this is podracing." He thinks he's in a podracer. He's real-time repressing the horrors that the war is forcing him to commit. Careful now, if you spend too much time ironically posting about the prequels, eventually you might find yourself liking them unironically. Wouldn't that be horrible?
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 05:00
|
|
|
The budget for Rogue One is $200 million USD.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 06:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 06:06 |
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc3c_E7KrIQ
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2016 06:56
|
|