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You know the province window you can open up that has the institution bar in it? Watch that; every time you develop the province, it'll go up. You want to keep developing it until the bar maxes out, which usually takes ~2000 monarch points worth of development, depending on the province. Mid-teens for development to start off with is ideal; you get more institution per development if the province is already well developed, but after a certain point the development costs rise too much for it to be cost effective. Dispand your mercs unless you're going to war again pretty soon afterwards. I guess as the Ottomans you might be. It's ~10 ducats for a merc, and ~.5 ducats a month for maintenance, so basically if it's gonna take you any longer than 20 months to go to war again then it's worth disbanding them. Also it's always worth consolidating them, reinforcements for mercenaries are super expensive.
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Dec 7, 2016 02:57
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jpparker55 posted:I see a lot of mention of developing provinces for institutions but have no idea how this works. Could someone give me a noobs explanation of what I should be doing for that? buy common sense
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Dec 7, 2016 02:58
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Koramei posted:You know the province window you can open up that has the institution bar in it? Watch that; every time you develop the province, it'll go up. You want to keep developing it until the bar maxes out, which usually takes ~2000 monarch points worth of development, depending on the province. Mid-teens for development to start off with is ideal; you get more institution per development if the province is already well developed, but after a certain point the development costs rise too much for it to be cost effective. Thanks! That makes sense. oddium posted:buy common sense I have all the DLC (got it in the steam sale), just no idea what i'm doing :/
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Dec 7, 2016 03:04
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That seems...like an extreme amount of monarch points Is it useful when you're an entire hemisphere away from an institution, or something?
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Dec 7, 2016 03:10
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awesmoe posted:That seems...like an extreme amount of monarch points Yeah. For example Asian nations will have to do it at least a couple of times to have a hope of catching up. Ultimately you'd lose a lot of points to the institution tech cost modifier over time, and this way at least you get a really good province out of the deal.
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Dec 7, 2016 03:24
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Koramei posted:dev diary: This is a cool mechanic and the immediate things I can think of are that central Europe is gonna be a devastated hellhole forever and that the traditional "meh you can occupy like 25% of my territory I'm still sitting on your capital" strategy might be hindered if the autonomy cap penalties take decades to go away.
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Dec 7, 2016 03:25
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It's cool that no matter where you are in the world, you can tell when the Wars of Religion kick off in the HRE because the game slows to like 1/3 speed.
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Dec 7, 2016 03:32
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Fintilgin posted:It's cool that no matter where you are in the world, you can tell when the Wars of Religion kick off in the HRE because the game slows to like 1/3 speed. Question: I Accidently clicked on the button in that HRE screen as the Ottomans and now I'm part of the Protestant League? Is this bad for me? Strategically i'm on the side of one of my biggest allies (France).
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Dec 7, 2016 04:14
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algebra testes posted:Question: I Accidently clicked on the button in that HRE screen as the Ottomans and now I'm part of the Protestant League? Is this bad for me? It's not bad necessarily. Any allies you have on the other side will break their alliances with you ASAP. It can be bad if you don't want to do a giant war potentially, or if the Catholic side has a big size advantage. You can leave after a while.
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Dec 7, 2016 04:21
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jpparker55 posted:I see a lot of mention of developing provinces for institutions but have no idea how this works. Could someone give me a noobs explanation of what I should be doing for that? It depends upon your situation, if you have an excess of mercenaries or can afford to replace them with regular divisions and there is no pressing need for soldiers then I always disband them. They cost too much to just sit around. However often after a war my manpower is obliterated and a sizable portion of my army has become mercenaries. Disbanding them would make other AI countries want to attack me and if they did I could not quickly build up the same mercenary force. In short just keep your mercenaries as a form of insurance until you can build a normal army again.
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Dec 7, 2016 05:23
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algebra testes posted:Question: I Accidently clicked on the button in that HRE screen as the Ottomans and now I'm part of the Protestant League? Is this bad for me? If you've never been involved in the Evangelical War before go for it, it can be fun. And if you're wondering what it's like keep in mind it's going to take for-loving-ever for the AI to peace this out so once you get call for peace it's only downhill from there. If you want to win basically just pick one nation at a time and stomp them so hard that even with the massive war enthusiasm bonus that this gives they have to surrender then immediately move to the next one once you're done (don't sit there and wait until they peace out, you'll be waiting for about five years). The war leader AI is usually a son of a bitch so expect them to sit there and let a nation be 100% sieged down but refuse to peace out because the war leader wants some bullshit amount of stuff rather than just taking a reasonable peace offer.
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Dec 7, 2016 06:34
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Koramei posted:So when you two have run through your hoard of cash when you're at war do you just immediately sue for peace or what? Loans are in this game for a reason. Cash reserves don't matter for poo poo, monthly income is what's important- it affects how people view you, how big your loans are, how much you get from the money events, or the estates. Nobody's saying you should prioritize buildings over things like advisors, just that when you have an excess of gold, it's better to spend it and have it come back to you than just let it sit there. No? I take out loans for war if I need to. Not sure why you think I wouldn't. After the war I start paying off the loans and building back up for the next war. Stopping to build things would significantly slow down my expansion. Here's what I've been trying to say all this time: buildings generally have a very slow return on your investment, whereas mercs and advisers and other things are more immediate. You're correct that buildings increase your income which alloys you to afford more mercs... but buying mercs and waging war and taking more territory does that even more effectively.
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Dec 7, 2016 07:17
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algebra testes posted:Question: I Accidently clicked on the button in that HRE screen as the Ottomans and now I'm part of the Protestant League? Is this bad for me? You'll be pulled into a Europe-spanning war, which can be good if you're on the winning side and if you're cool with the Protestants controlling the HRE But in your particular case it's bad because gently caress France Fister Roboto posted:No? I take out loans for war if I need to. Not sure why you think I wouldn't. After the war I start paying off the loans and building back up for the next war. Stopping to build things would significantly slow down my expansion. Building some income-producing buildings in your highest value provinces is even better at letting you do that effectively, and you apparently agree with this because you said that you buy income buildings for your institution-seeded provinces so I don't know what your actual argument is. We all agree that income buildings are sometimes useful, and some people are okay with only a +0.2/month return instead of a +1.0/month return. Cool QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 08:17
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quote:Building some income-producing buildings in your highest value provinces is even better at letting you do that effectively, and you apparently agree with this because you said that you buy income buildings for your institution-seeded provinces so I don't know what your actual argument is. We all agree that income buildings are sometimes useful, and some people are okay with only a +0.2/month return instead of a +1.0/month return. Cool It's because I can't do both at the same time. If I spend money on a building, I can't use that money to also buy mercs. Once I build a building, that money is gone until the building pays its cost back. All the building does is make it so that at some point in the future, which could be decades from now, I will be able to afford slightly more mercs. I'd rather have mercs now than slightly more mercs decades in the future. That's my argument. It's part of my playstyle. If you don't play the same way, that's fine, but it's not "objectively wrong".
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Dec 7, 2016 08:40
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Fister Roboto posted:It's because I can't do both at the same time. If I spend money on a building, I can't use that money to also buy mercs. Once I build a building, that money is gone until the building pays its cost back. All the building does is make it so that at some point in the future, which could be decades from now, I will be able to afford slightly more mercs. I'd rather have mercs now than slightly more mercs decades in the future. That's my argument. It's part of my playstyle. If you don't play the same way, that's fine, but it's not "objectively wrong". I think the only thing people said was "objectively wrong" was never building buildings, which isn't actually your argument so everyone's cool
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Dec 7, 2016 08:43
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If you literally need all of your money for mercs all of the time to survive then yeah spend money on mercs before buildings. But even with poorer starts I usually find enough spare money to at least invest in a few buildings for more long term money. It's seldom an either/or decision.
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Dec 7, 2016 08:53
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sloshmonger posted:couple pages back, but the basics of it are that the provinces in China are overseas, and therefore you can only core adjacent to another core, while the ones in Asia Minor are not, so you can core that little snake without waiting. You can see what the game considers overseas by using the map mode for it, but it's roughly not on home continent and not nearby. I thought of that, but in the first example Umung is overseas, not in contact with any cores and I still can't core it  Maybe you just need to have a core really close to it, not necessarily touching it?
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Dec 7, 2016 10:44
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jpparker55 posted:I see a lot of mention of developing provinces for institutions but have no idea how this works. Could someone give me a noobs explanation of what I should be doing for that? Unless you're going to be fighting a war or a particularly nasty rebellion or something in a short while (whilst low on manpower) I would in general suggest disbanding most (or all) of your mercenaries after you are done fighting with them. Normal troops cost manpower, which mercenaries don't, that means that disbanding normal troops loses you manpower, mercenaries are just a drain when not fighting, no reason not to disband them really.
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Dec 7, 2016 10:53
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Sometimes you need to puff up your chest, so that the AI doesn't perceive you as weak after a war. Mercenaries help with this, especially if you find yourself low on manpower. This doesn't mean you have to pay them, though!
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Dec 7, 2016 11:05
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Had some weird poo poo go down, where basically The Main Axis of European Powers had a heretical civil war with Spain on one side and Austria on the other, I used this opportunity as the Ottomans to try and take out Austria, which resulted in a coalition against me, and France and myself versus the rest of Europe. They break my back, make me humble. Although I didn't have to give up much, only Tripoli. I think my crazy discipline and army tradition, and moral meant that I took down nearly a million men for 400k of my own, and the resulting positive war score meant that I came out relatively unscathed. I kept most of Australia/Hungary which I think is the important part.
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Dec 7, 2016 14:19
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https://twitter.com/producerjohan/status/806468067421253632 huh I'd sort of hoped they'd rebalance them instead, there's no reason they have to be worthless. But I guess as they are right now I'd rather they were just gone so those buildings and ideas could actually be something worthwhile instead.
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Dec 7, 2016 17:39
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What's the intent behind sailors? Is it to put another limit on shipbuilding, like if your navy gets wiped you can't just replace it in a year, even if you have the money for it? Because if so, it's never really come into play for me.
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Dec 7, 2016 17:47
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I figured something was a bit off because as Ethiopia I conquered my first coastal province (and thus had 0 sailors to start with) and I still have never had to think about how many sailors I had while filling out my entire naval fleet. I actually tend to just forget they're even a mechanic.
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Dec 7, 2016 17:51
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Mechanical Ape posted:What's the intent behind sailors? Is it to put another limit on shipbuilding, like if your navy gets wiped you can't just replace it in a year, even if you have the money for it? Because if so, it's never really come into play for me. That, and also about a landlocked country not being able to secure a coastal province and immediately pump out a billion heavies. I always assumed the sailors I was hiring for my ships were essentially mercenaries anyway? It was a silly, pointless mechanic and the last thing EUIV needs right now is more of those, so I'm glad they're floating the idea of removing it.
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Dec 7, 2016 17:53
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Sailors were actually pretty important during the period. Often in terms of their quality and so on more than just their number though, which I guess is represented through naval morale and so on.Mechanical Ape posted:What's the intent behind sailors? Is it to put another limit on shipbuilding, like if your navy gets wiped you can't just replace it in a year, even if you have the money for it? Because if so, it's never really come into play for me. I think so, basically. Along with making it so someone like Austria with 1 coastal province has a much harder time keeping up navally with someone like Venice with a whole bunch. As it is right now, yeah, they are completely loving worthless. But I'm surprised they're leaping straight into removing them entirely, when to my knowledge they haven't even tried to rebalance them a single time yet.
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Dec 7, 2016 17:53
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I do think that there should be a limiting factor on small countries and/or large countries with very little coastline being able to spam heavies or whatever, but I do not have a good suggestion as to what that should be. Based on my experience, Sailors as they stand have the effect of being a limiting factor on "small countries and/or large countries with very little coastline" so I do not think that they should go. I guess. I figured Sailors would get rebalanced (instead of removed) but if they remove them I'd be okay with it. They only ever come into focus if you have limited coastline or were landlocked and just reached the ocean. I had some trouble with Sailors as Mali because I was huge and could afford a navy, but only had seven coastal provinces because :africa in EU4:. Otherwise they are a non issue.
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Dec 7, 2016 17:59
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Removing sailors would be really nice. Mainly so countries like England could get a better national idea than the sailor related. I don't think I ever had to worry about how many sailors I had, regardless of what country i Played. it's such a non-issue mechanic.
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Dec 7, 2016 18:00
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Would rebalancing naval force limit work? Maybe lowering the minimum from 12 to something else?
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Dec 7, 2016 18:17
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Make it dependent on number of coastal provinces, maybe. Increase the number up and/or reduce cost of going over in Naval ideas.
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Dec 7, 2016 21:39
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They should get rid of sailors, and instead: 1) Penalize naval tradition if you have very few coastal provinces and are a mostly land-locked nation. If you have 1 coastal province and 100 inland provinces, your naval morale should suck, but if you have 10 coastal provinces then the penalty should be nil. And if you're primarily a coastal nation (aka >= 50% of your provinces are coastal) then you shouldn't have a naval morale penalty at all. 2) Penalize ship building costs when naval tradition is very low, to represent a smaller pool of qualified sailors who are willing to join your lovely demoralized navy.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:05
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QuarkJets posted:They should get rid of sailors, and instead:
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Dec 7, 2016 22:07
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Perhaps they coyld get rid of corruption at the same time. I wouldn't object to something radical as well, like removing stability or merging legitimacy and prestige
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Dec 7, 2016 22:14
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I want a naval battle mini-game a la sid meier's pirates, or maybe total war.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:20
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pointsofdata posted:Perhaps they coyld get rid of corruption at the same time. I wouldn't object to something radical as well, like removing stability or merging legitimacy and prestige I also wouldnt mind if they changed how converting worked. I always thought it was silly that the Muslim Ottomans in like 400 years of overlordship over the Balkans, only a very small percentage of the native population converted to Islam. In EU4 it is 100% converted before 1500. I definitely dont have a good suggestion on how to change it but still also leaving it fun and engaging for the player, but yeah.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:32
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Stability is actually really rear end and could be done away with easily since there are far more meaningful modifiers which do similar things now (especially with devastation being added) Between that tweet and the recent DD I am getting (even more) excited for future EU development, it's cool that they're obviously willing to reiterate on stuff which works but isn't compelling (which was kind of obvious with instituitons but having that reinforced is good news!).
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Dec 7, 2016 22:37
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Eej posted:This is a cool mechanic and the immediate things I can think of are that central Europe is gonna be a devastated hellhole forever and that the traditional "meh you can occupy like 25% of my territory I'm still sitting on your capital" strategy might be hindered if the autonomy cap penalties take decades to go away. So basically its a realistic handling of Germany 
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Dec 7, 2016 22:40
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Can people who've done this before let me know how I'm looking for some achievements? sitrep:  Allied with Poland, Lithuania (who are allied to each other) and Shan. Nogai vassal. Europe is obviously a complicated clusterfuck of alliances, but aside from getting boots on the ground in GB I think I can take anyone + allies in a fight. I'm primarily going for: 1) Dar al-Islam, which I think I should be fine with. 2) Over a Thousand! looking okay? Maybe? 3) World Conquest - no idea if I'm on track or not When will I need to head to the americas (and how - do I have to take exploration ideas or is there another way)? Any advice?
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Dec 7, 2016 22:40
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awesmoe posted:Can people who've done this before let me know how I'm looking for some achievements?
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Dec 7, 2016 22:50
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Honestly I'd rather they try to rebalance sailors before tossing them entirely. I agree they're an irrelevant resource 99% of the time, but sailors are already in a ton of NIs, events, etc so it seems like a lot of work to remove them. Maybe try a rebalance in the next beta and see how players respond? I'd suggest two things, 1) reduce sailor gain or increase costs so they are actually a meaningful strategic resource and 2) add some other ways to "spend" sailors. Maybe we could be able to convert sailors to cash, mercantilism, naval tradition, maybe even development in coastal provinces, etc?
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Dec 7, 2016 22:58
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awesmoe posted:Can people who've done this before let me know how I'm looking for some achievements? I doubt you can WC from there, not enough progress in Europe. What are your ideas? If they're not Admin/Influence/Quantity/Diplo it'll be especially tough. But your first two should be fine, Silk Road, Master of India, the 10 gold mines one, At Every Continent, Three Georgias.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:08
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