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Motto posted:I'm glad we already got to people unironically saying this. If Chapter 13 doesn't end soon I am prepared to take that back. It doesn't help that Square Enix is on an apology tour and claiming that they will fix this disaster through patches and DLC. I am glad I only spent $35 on this.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:31
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I think it's very heartening that Square Enix isn't treating this like "hey we poo poo out this game now live with it". Yeah maybe it's not the perfect version at launch but after everything, it's nice to see them really take criticism to heart and try to fix it.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:32
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Motto posted:I'm glad we already got to people unironically saying this. I'll happily be a voice of dissent and call the game too far from its JRPG roots and with poor female representation if that helps. I mean I didn't buy the game, so take it with the grain of salt that requires, but it's a role I'll happily play.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:34
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FF2, FF3DS and FFXIII will remain as the worst in the mainline series. The troubled development of XV reminds me of what happened to Dark Souls II, where the first director got kicked off halfway through. The second guy had to make sense of the first guy's work and ship in a reasonable time. This led to the base game being somewhat bland and incoherent, (One-foot high ledges you can't scale, high-level invaders who screw over starting players, ugly texture-work, a boss roster half made-up with dudes in armour) but then we got the DLC from just the second director which gave us the best levels and bosses in the series. What other game got muddled from a change in director mid-development?
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Dec 7, 2016 22:35
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Levantine posted:I think it's very heartening that Square Enix isn't treating this like "hey we poo poo out this game now live with it". Yeah maybe it's not the perfect version at launch but after everything, it's nice to see them really take criticism to heart and try to fix it. It's almost like they've had to do this before with another main series title!
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Dec 7, 2016 22:35
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Final fantasy 15: A Road trip Reborn
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Dec 7, 2016 22:38
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I thought the Witcher 3 was garbage until basically the blood and wine life improvements so hey, even the best games still need free updates. Like seriously, fire whoever thought the default running was acceptable.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:41
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Levantine posted:I think it's very heartening that Square Enix isn't treating this like "hey we poo poo out this game now live with it". Yeah maybe it's not the perfect version at launch but after everything, it's nice to see them really take criticism to heart and try to fix it. I don't think they have had a choice with their current track record. With FF13 being a corridor RPG and then following it up with this wet fart, it is the only thing they can do to save the Final Fantasy name save for whatever they manage to chop together for the FF7 remake. The company has slumped hard since the PS2 era and the only thing really saving them for quality is Eidos.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:44
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Nah, they've developed or at least published plenty of good stuff, just not mainline FF.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:47
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The Flying Milton posted:I don't think they have had a choice with their current track record. With FF13 being a corridor RPG and then following it up with this wet fart, it is the only thing they can do to save the Final Fantasy name save for whatever they manage to chop together for the FF7 remake. The company has slumped hard since the PS2 era and the only thing really saving them for quality is Eidos. Except they're still making plenty of games that the fanbase loves. Hell, World of FF has gotten a great reception just last month. Motto posted:Nah, they've developed or at least published plenty of good stuff, just not mainline FF. FF14 counts, and it's been doing great from what I've heard.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:48
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Ff14 is actually the best ff
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Dec 7, 2016 22:48
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half the people that bitch about square today stopped following square since 2007
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Dec 7, 2016 22:49
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I can unironically say that WoFF is the best Final Fantasy released in 2016.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:53
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The Flying Milton posted:With FF13 being a corridor RPG FF13 was not as successful as a lot of FF games, and people got tired of the 5 years of sequels to it, but it did not do any damage to the brand name whatsoever.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:04
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The real 'final fantasy' is that one of these games will be good! HA!
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Dec 7, 2016 23:05
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HOW WILL SQUEENIX RECOVER FROM THIS GAME THAT SOLD 6 MILLION COPIES AND RECEIVED FAIRLY POSITIVE REVIEWS, AND WHO FEMALE FANS IN JAPAN LOVE DEARLY?
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Dec 7, 2016 23:06
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oh, i know, by catering to me and what i want, a crusty american dude in his mid-30s who hasn't bought a final fantasy game on release date since 2002
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Dec 7, 2016 23:07
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A game can sell a lot and still be bad  also lol metacritic
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Dec 7, 2016 23:14
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Inspector Gesicht posted:FF2, FF3DS and FFXIII will remain as the worst in the mainline series. ffxv also reminds me of dark souls 2 in that people are already trying desperately to spin some behind-the-scenes stuff into the reason it's actually the terrible worst most disappointing game ever
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Dec 7, 2016 23:17
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FF14's recovery with ARR is literally the reason Square Enix still exists in its current incarnation and didn't collapse like Squaresoft did after Spirits Within because the company was in dire straights when 1.0 came out and was a massive tire fire of a game.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:17
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Endorph posted:oh, i know, by catering to me and what i want, a crusty american dude in his mid-30s who hasn't bought a final fantasy game on release date since 2002 Inspector Gesicht posted:What other game got muddled from a change in director mid-development?  .
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Dec 7, 2016 23:20
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DACK FAYDEN posted:How many Final Fantasy games is that again? (not that I'm disagreeing with you) 10-2, 12, the entire 13 subseries, 15, both MMOs, plus a handful of remakes and spinoffs like Bravely Default/Second.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:25
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My take on XV is that the core of the game is great. It's just that the there are a lot of things about it that make it obvious that the game just wasn't finished. But I don't think the game would ever have been finished unless the execs had literally pushed it out the door. For me it's the story. I hate the way it's told, I hate its piecemeal nature, and like in XIII I hate that exposition is in supplementary reading material. It's presented in such a way that all buts says "We didn't have time to finish this, but here's what we WOULD have put here!" The story makes or breaks it for me, and this one keeps it out of my Best FF Ever lists.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:33
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Brother Entropy posted:ffxv also reminds me of dark souls 2 in that people are already trying desperately to spin some behind-the-scenes stuff into the reason it's actually the terrible worst most disappointing game ever To be honest, even if FF XV was released with absolutely nothing cut and was a whole, coherent experience, people would still bitch about it because they've got it in their heads that the game has been in development for 10 years and as such have put the game on such a high level of standards that would be completely impossible to reach. Then you've got the crowd who were ready to hate the game because they're huge fans of Nomura and felt he got slighted even though he was by all accounts a loving disaster who'd regularly turn up to work drunk and randomly wanted to turn Versus XIII into a musical. These people willfully ignore that XV was only really in development for 3 years at best and very little of Versus XIII even remains in the game. Very little of the initial reveal trailer for XV was in the game either. The game was a huge money pit that Sqaure-Enix wanted to make at least some money back on that frankly, it's a miracle the game turned out as good as it did despite the huge flaws.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:38
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Yeah, but Squeenix's dire financial straits aren't because their games don't do well - they do - it's because they have the worst development processes in the world and refuse to accept that it isn't the 90s anymore. Game development costs have gone drastically up in the past 20 years and Square Enix is still acting like any amount of sales can make enough money to justify their absurd production values, or that anyone actually cares about CG cutscenes in 2016. They could cut their game budgets in half or even a quarter and still be making the most expensive JRPGs on the market. Like, what's their competition? I loved Tales of Berseria but that game looks like an early PS3 game and tells 60% of its story through the amazing technology of 'showing an image of the character talking on the screen," Atlus survives on slick presentation (and it took them about as long to make Persona 5 as it took Squeenix to make FF15,) and even as someone who likes most of Idea Factory's output, lol, idea factory. I don't know who they're trying to impress at this point. Just make a decent engine, release a numbered FF game every 2.5 years, and rake in the cash.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:40
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e: wrong thread!!
Lumpy the Cook fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 23:47
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They're trying to compete with other AAA franchises, not the relatively small JRPG market. Their dev practices are still dumb though and they'd probably be better off downsizing FF a bit and leaving AAA to their western divisions.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:49
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Squeenix is doing so well they can subsidize the cocaine and champagne parties that pass for Square development, which for whatever reason has been the entire Squeenix relation to Square development since Enix bailed Square out after Spirits Within. FF14 1.0 and the FF13 mire were a low spot in their coffers resulting in the hilarious accounting that called the Lara Croft reboot a financial failure (despite calling for a sequel) but hey they never hit a point like Ubi with someone breathing down their necks putting a call out for stocks for a takeover.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:54
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Endorph posted:Yeah, but Squeenix's dire financial straits aren't because their games don't do well - they do - it's because they have the worst development processes in the world and refuse to accept that it isn't the 90s anymore. Game development costs have gone drastically up in the past 20 years and Square Enix is still acting like any amount of sales can make enough money to justify their absurd production values, or that anyone actually cares about CG cutscenes in 2016. Another part of the problem is that each Final Fantasy game has to play differently from previous games if they aren't numbered sequels. It isn't like Dragon Quest which mostly sticks to a formula that works and iterates on it, Square-Enix feel the need to reinvent the wheel with each game, typically using a new engine, battle system, assets and overall completely different game design philosophy with each game. On the other hand, Square-Enix's competitors for JRPGs tend to reuse a lot of assets and coding from game to game. Persona 5 took a long time to come out because they had to make everything from scratch but you bet that future Megaten games will be reusing assets from Persona 5. They got good mileage out of Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne's assets after all. It does seem kind of a waste that XV isn't getting any planned sequels, because unlike XIII and its sequels, people do generally seem to want a sequel which builds and fixes the issues of XV. I think the Luminous Engine is being used solely for XV and nothing else, whilst VII remake and Kingdom Hearts 3 will be using Unreal 4. Considering the pressure Tabata was under to get XV out even in its current state, I can kind of understand why he doesn't feel the need to do a sequel though.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:55
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they shouldve made sleeping dogs a final fantasy game, that game was good as hell
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Dec 7, 2016 23:55
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Motto posted:They're trying to compete with other AAA franchises, not the relatively small JRPG market. Their dev practices are still dumb though and they'd probably be better off downsizing FF a bit and leaving AAA to their western divisions. Good idea let's have Japanese developers make less big games and have AIDS riddled western bitches make more. Dddrrrrrruuuuuhhhhuuuuuuurrrrrrr!!!!!!!
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Dec 7, 2016 23:56
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xv not having any planned sequels rn doesn't mean much in the long run, i extremely doubt x or xiii had planned sequels when the originals were being made
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Dec 7, 2016 23:58
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I'm not sure XV needs a full-fledged sequel. Maybe a short addressing what happens after XV or something, but I'm not 100% sure it needs a X-2 style sequel. Then again it would be nice to put to rest if the boyband dies after Noct ascends or not.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:08
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Super No Vacancy posted:they shouldve made sleeping dogs a final fantasy game, that game was good as hell Noct can now perform environmental fatalities on enemies. And eat pork buns.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:09
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Brother Entropy posted:xv not having any planned sequels rn doesn't mean much in the long run, i extremely doubt x or xiii had planned sequels when the originals were being made 15 not having any planned sequels doesn't mean as much as it could in the long run because they said they want to flesh out the rest with DLC, which makes sense because the reboot of Versus as 15 was predicated on taking a 14 style stance on player input into development and its hard to do that without the game in the wild.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:11
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I just realized half the non-MMO FF games up to 13 have had follow up games now (and 5 has an anime). Still looking forward to 2-2 where the other half of the world dies.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:15
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Mega64 posted:I just realized half the non-MMO FF games up to 13 have had follow up games now (and 5 has an anime). 2-2 sorta kinda exists in Dawn of Souls, where all the guest characters from that game kill the heavenly half of the Emperor.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:17
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Endorph posted:HOW WILL SQUEENIX RECOVER FROM THIS GAME THAT SOLD 6 MILLION COPIES AND RECEIVED FAIRLY POSITIVE REVIEWS, AND WHO FEMALE FANS IN JAPAN LOVE DEARLY? Honesty a 10 year development and massive marketing campaign might actually make FFXV a financial disappointment. Probably not a loss, but I'm betting it's going to end up nowhere near a blockbuster. Worst case scenario it kills the franchise in the future even if it makes money now. Sorta like how Into Darkness killed the new Star Trek franchise by deflating all enthusiasm for Beyond.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:23
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Thundercracker posted:Honesty a 10 year development and massive marketing campaign might actually make FFXV a financial disappointment. Probably not a loss, but I'm betting it's going to end up nowhere near a blockbuster. Motto posted:Final Fantasy XV is a rushed openworld RPG that began dev a few years back, changed hands, and is loosely based on a canned PS3 game so as to not completely waste prior investment in marketing and promotion. This is just so this isn't an empty quote because boy the idea that this game was in development for a decade solid is just silly
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Dec 8, 2016 00:26
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:This is just so this isn't an empty quote because boy the idea that this game was in development for a decade solid is just silly That said the impression that it is a 10-year development cycle appears to be very strong and when you're talking about reception and enthusiasm that is actually relevant, even if it 'shouldn't' be. That also said FFXV sold gangbusters day 1.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:27
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