boner confessor posted:

its actually a terrible argument because nothing makes fishmech post more than pointing out he's wrong but not technically wrong

The Muppets On PCP posted:

boner confessor posted:

yeah but that's because there's a continuum of cultural and ethnic history in ireland that stretches back from the present day to that point in time

basically every single native american who lived in the eastern half of america was killed or forcibly removed from early america. it's worth talking about government policy towards native americans as well as cultural interactions between native americans and euro settlers/african slaves but the cultural divide is so great that imo it's disrespectful to pretend that there's a historical continuation between pre-colonial america and colonial america

Badger of Basra posted:

I haven't actually read any of his posts but I like to imagine he thinks all the white people in Detroit thought the streets were so illogical that they had to move elsewhere

boner confessor posted:

fishmech posts a lot about street layout and grid shapes and traffic flow and types of trains etc. so i really think he sees cities as a sim city style grand experiment in physically engineered architecture and not as a collection of systems largely revolving around human behavior

i didn't get into his streetcar example but it's also bad, he implied that streetcar coverage correlated with bad design when this is totally ahistorical for a number of reasons but to keep it really brief both streetcars and street plotting at the time was largely left up to the private sector and can in no way be described as "designed" and also the changes he's talking about are completely miniscule anyway in the grand scheme of things unless you study roadmaps like an EE studies printed boards

kustomkarkommando posted:

i don't think covering precolonial history necessary lays claim to a historical continuation in the sense that precontact indigenous American history "belongs" to the United Sates of America, that is that it is integral part of the states history - I guess my issue is more that restricting American history to be simply that of the state rather than a broad sweep of the geographic region is fundamentally a lopsided way of dealing with things.

fishmech posted:

you've got some weird strrawmen to try to defend your position of "bad design can never cause other problems" imo

boner confessor posted:

you are autistic and you don't understand how cities work

Randler posted:

From further down the article. America 2016: Rise of the hotdog hotshots.

boner confessor posted:

im sorry i hurt your feelings fishmech. please stop quoting me. you will be wrong forever. thank you

boner confessor posted:

the problem is that there's such a big difference between colonial settlement and precolonial periods of history that they dont really cover the same forms of history aside from having happened in the same location. look up any american state on wikipedia and you'll see an obligatory paragraph or two that says like "the first people who lived here were the such and such who settled villages ten thousand years ago and maybe built some mounds and stuff" and then it goes into the rest of the article. that kind of contractually obligated white people weren't the first to live here paragraph is the kind of stuff you get when you try to fold native american history into white settler history

also a lot of really worthwhile native american history isn't developed yet because a lot of it is still being established archeologically. because seriously, nine out of ten natives east of the mississippi were killed by various plagues introduced by europeans - some groups wiped out without having ever seen a european - such that by the time europeans showed up they basically came into indigenous mad max and everything was in turmoil so we really don't know much about these societies except in their interactions with colonists, which makes that a useful start date for a curriculum. like i've been to a couple different archeological sites in my region, etowah village and fort mountain, and we still have inconclusive ideas about who built these places or what they were used for

UberJew posted:

also im curious but i don't want to go back is the pipeline thread still the absolute worst thread since the pipeline was delayed or has it gotten better

boner confessor posted:

can it be worse than the left wing media thread

kustomkarkommando posted:

Legit leaving out precolonial history in a course on "early" american history is actually the kind of thing that irks me

Raskolnikov38 posted:

we have a class dedicated to that its just not this one

Avshalom posted:

hi fishmech! thank you for your excellent work as vanya's publicity agent, he's very pleased with your performance

merry exmarx posted:

i think he's posting less because his dad is dying of cancer