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homullus posted:Luke's first taste of the Force was "luckily" buying two droids, one of whom just happened to be made by his father and the other of whom happened to be carrying an SOS from his long-lost sister. Likewise, Anakin's first taste of the Force that we're shown is his winning the pod race. (Although his premonition about the Jedi was earlier.) At this risk of saying something controversial, that was a hell of a lot more exciting than Luke playing with a wiimote. Neo Rasa posted:Did it blow its own brains out rather than continue being wiped and enslaved over and over again? Galaga Galaxian posted:Maybe it just had a bad motivator. As far as we know, these are the same thing.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:06
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Phi230 posted:prequel fan hot take: plot holes are inventions by prequel haters and are imaginary Um? Except it's not a plot hole and Lord Hydronium just explained it like one post above mine. You are so willfully oblivious. It is truly beautiful. Or fuckable(fake idea)
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Dec 7, 2016 22:07
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Whether or not you personally buy into the Jedi's reasoning for using the clone army, its not a plot hole. That's not what a plot hole is.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:13
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Filthy Casual posted:I love that they snuck in Crow T. and B-9 in there. I see Crow, Servo, the Lost in Space Robot, and Bender Bending Rodriguez.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:14
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It's not a plot hole, just difficult to believe. I don't recall anything in RotS indicating that anyone even bothered to look into it after the fact. IIRC Obi-Wan figures out that some vastly rich entity maqueraded as a dead Jedi master to commission this huge slave army. But they take command of it anyway, because they're overwhelmed.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:28
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Halloween Jack posted:It's not a plot hole, just difficult to believe. I don't recall anything in RotS indicating that anyone even bothered to look into it after the fact. IIRC Obi-Wan figures out that some vastly rich entity maqueraded as a dead Jedi master to commission this huge slave army. But they take command of it anyway, because they're overwhelmed. Obiwan actually doesn't figure out that Dyas was a fake. He only figures out that someone named Dyas played a small role in a secret government project: "They said Master Sifo-Dyas placed an order for a clone army at the request of the Senate almost ten years ago." Yoda says the Jedi Order never authorized this order, so he concludes that the army must be the Senate's secret plan. So why not just contact the Senate, to clear up what's going on? Yoda: Blind we are if creation of this clone army, we could not see. Windu: I think it is time we informed the senate that our ability to use the Force has diminished. Yoda: Only the dark lord of the Sith knows of our weakness. If informed the senate is, multiply our adversaries will. Yoda says to just shut up and go along with whatever the Senate is doing. Act like we predicted this, or else we'll look stupid. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."
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Dec 7, 2016 22:46
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 He died to bring them the information
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Dec 7, 2016 22:59
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Phi230 posted:I think the anti-TFA bandwagon has gotten to you Ok, now I think J.J. Abrahms is terrible because his characters try too hard to be 'cute' and might as well just scream 'aren't I adorable' during screen time. Nothing Abrahms characters says requires nuance. The original triliogy didn't require its characters to sweat and scream all the time to earn our compassion, they were just themselves. Plus I hate the prequels too, it just goes to show that when some people try too hard to be likable it annoys some of us. Take moments like "I'm in charge now bitch!!!" or "None of your business that's why!!!!" and you'll see that the characters are only semi effective when they run on the hype we had walking in the theatre.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:06
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Halloween Jack posted:It's not a plot hole, just difficult to believe. I don't recall anything in RotS indicating that anyone even bothered to look into it after the fact. IIRC Obi-Wan figures out that some vastly rich entity maqueraded as a dead Jedi master to commission this huge slave army. But they take command of it anyway, because they're overwhelmed. Which part is difficult to believe? Taking command of the army due to being overwhelmed?
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Dec 7, 2016 23:06
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Maxwell Lord posted:I see Crow, Servo, the Lost in Space Robot, and Bender Bending Rodriguez. Is Bender in the same frame as Crow? I thought it looked familiar, but the mainframe spools threw me.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:07
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I know some people won't give a poo poo about what happened in the cartoon, but The Clone Wars goes into a little bit more explanation of why the Jedi were willing to accept the clone army, aside from the fact that they were out of options. Dyas was apparently a very well known rebel within the Jedi order, he was constantly pushing them to be more decisive. Dooku, knowing this, purposely stole his identity because Dyas secretly commissioning an army was the kind of thing the Jedi wouldn't be overly shocked by. Instead of being overly suspicious, they'd instead say "Well, it looks like Dyas was right after all, good thing he went behind out backs and did this because it turns out we need it" Dyas wasn't just some random no-name Jedi, and Dooku didn't pull his name out of a hat.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:34
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See I thought for years the name Syfo Dyous was a play on the word "cypher" indicating it was a joke fake name by Palpatine but apparently the original idea was it was Palpatine using the name "Sydo Dyous" and Lucas thought that was too on the nose welp *Curb Your Enthusiasm theme plays*
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Dec 8, 2016 00:00
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If anything, Palpatine's plan went way too smoothly. Instead of Syfo Dyas, he should have signed it as Veehs Enitaplap.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:16
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UmOk posted:Which part is difficult to believe? Taking command of the army due to being overwhelmed? It's difficult to believe that they don't aggressively question what the gently caress, that this isn't a driving interest for them going forward, because SOMETHINGS UP. To me it's one of the kind of driving "I cannot buy into this" things in the prequels. The things that nag. The other ones being anything related to Anakin and Padmes Romance (I don't buy it on any level) that the councils dumb choices regarding Anakin (A series of such massive idiot balls that it just seems forced.)
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Dec 8, 2016 00:19
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sure this dark cloaked figure named DARTH SIDEOUS probably isnt a bad guy and we should totally listen to him - trade federation oh yeah he sent us one of his guys to help run things oh he looks like satan nothing wrong here
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Dec 8, 2016 00:19
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Paul Saltines would have sufficed.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:19
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ShineDog posted:It's difficult to believe that they don't aggressively question what the gently caress, that this isn't a driving interest for them going forward, because SOMETHINGS UP. "The dark side clouds everything, impossible to see, the future is" says Yoda "Our ability to use the force has been diminished" says Mace Windu Two of the most powerful Jedi in the order are completely blindsided by everything. Why is it a surprise that they make what we see as foolish decisions? Phi230 posted:sure this dark cloaked figure named DARTH SIDEOUS probably isnt a bad guy and we should totally listen to him From like very early on in TPM the Trade Federation guys are a bit like Lando "this deal keeps getting worse all the time" about working with Sidious but what choice do they have? Satan offered them power for the cost of their soul, in essence. It's why before Anakin kills Nute Gunray that Nute is desperately trying one last plea--on some level the seperatists knew they were flying a bit too close to the sun Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 00:26
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UmOk posted:Which part is difficult to believe? Taking command of the army due to being overwhelmed? Gonz posted:Paul Saltines would have sufficed.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:28
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ShineDog posted:The other ones being anything related to Anakin and Padmes Romance (I don't buy it on any level) I seen too many similar romances in real life to second guess that one.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:47
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Phi230 posted:sure this dark cloaked figure named DARTH SIDEOUS probably isnt a bad guy and we should totally listen to him A lot of people in Star Wars look like satan. You can't cross the street every time of of them walks by.
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Dec 8, 2016 01:14
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Halloween Jack posted:Not questioning who actually commissioned the army at the outset, or investigating it after the fact. They don't need to investigate it. The Council instantly understood that it was a secret plan set up by the Senate. Investigations would, at best, just lead them to Sheev "I AM THE SENATE" Palpatine - telling them what they already knew. That the Senate did it. The actual weird assumption is that Yoda would demand - and get - a big investigation into the space-CIA's secret projects. It's like when people said the 'natural' and tactically-realistic thing to do would be for Padme to randomly buy Shmii a house.
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Dec 8, 2016 01:15
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ShineDog posted:It's difficult to believe that they don't aggressively question what the gently caress, that this isn't a driving interest for them going forward, because SOMETHINGS UP. Obi-Wan senses the dark presence behind everything in his first scene in "Episode" canon. His first lines. The Jedi catch glimpses, hints, but their fixation is on, here, now, this authority, this power structure, this Republic, this status quo. Obi-Wan: I have a bad feeling about this. Qui-Gon: I don't sense anything... Obi-Wan: It's not about the mission, Master. It's something elsewhere...elusive. Qui-Gon: Don't center on your anxieties, Obi-Wan. Keep your concentration here, and now, where it belongs. It's on the viewer to decide whether they are blinded by the dark side, by their own hubris, and whether those are even different things, but despite their eyes-wide philosophy, the Jedi do not see what is before them and in them. I think it's interesting that Qui-Gon decides something elusive and elsewhere is the product of Obi-Wan's anxieties. Anakin's anxious visions of his mother, Anakin's visions of Padme, and Luke's visions of his friends are clearly tied to their fears, and are also quite clear in general (for hazy visions, anyway): they can name names and see faces. Qui-Gon does suppose that Obi-Wan's sense is the future -- maybe in the absence of a sense of a present evil, he turns his senses to that same thing that Obi-Wan senses? maybe he's full of poo poo -- and immediately dismisses its importance.
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Dec 8, 2016 01:31
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The real question is what the cloners were thinking. Dude, you didn't hear from anyone for a decade about this order for hundreds of thousands of clone troopers? Never picked up the phone?
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Dec 8, 2016 01:35
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PostNouveau posted:The real question is what the cloners were thinking. Dude, you didn't hear from anyone for a decade about this order for hundreds of thousands of clone troopers? Never picked up the phone? Hey man, they got paid up front, and they just really fuckin' love the mad scientist thing, okay?
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Dec 8, 2016 01:38
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PostNouveau posted:The real question is what the cloners were thinking. Dude, you didn't hear from anyone for a decade about this order for hundreds of thousands of clone troopers? Never picked up the phone? The hadn't been in contact with the Jedi, but it's not like they haven't heard from [i]anybody.[/] Jango Fett seemed to regularly corrospond with them, at least.
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Dec 8, 2016 01:45
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Kaminoans are reclusive. It's not just that they don't hear from anybody - nobody notices they've been deleted from the library either, so it's not normal for anybody to hear from them.
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Dec 8, 2016 01:49
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Basebf555 posted:The Jedi don't get credit for being right about Anakin because they had a direct hand in making it happen. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy. A bunch of old hippies and aristocrats being undone by a brewing problem they were well aware of but chose not to nip in the bud seems pretty relevant at the moment.
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Dec 8, 2016 02:04
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Is Sheev still canon?
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Dec 8, 2016 03:07
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How do we know the Clone army wasn't investigated? If it was they would not have found anything. They should have thrown it into the opening crawl. "After a lengthy investigation into the accounting records of Camino by Jedi Master Trey-Gowdy no evidence could be found to prosecute" Star wars fans still complain about trade routes being mentioned in TPM opening. I, for one, cannot accept that Luke is a Jedi Knight in ROTJ because there was not a training montage prior to him showing up at Jabbas.
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Dec 8, 2016 03:10
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Kart Barfunkel posted:Is Sheev still canon? I think Sheev was first revealed in the first book of the new Disney canon.
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Dec 8, 2016 03:39
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Good. Goooooooooooooood.
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Dec 8, 2016 03:43
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Kart Barfunkel posted:Is Sheev still canon? Sheev wasn't even introduced until the new Canon. In old canon, the closest we got was in the Plagueis novel, when we're told that Palpatine eschewed his given name and elected to go by his family name only. They named his dad Cosinga, though (in reference to the old "Palpatine's first name might be Cos" thing)
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Dec 8, 2016 04:28
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Is Triclops still canon?
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Dec 8, 2016 05:05
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what about mofferences
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Dec 8, 2016 05:21
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Nope; both of those are from (the same source in) Legends
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Dec 8, 2016 05:24
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(I know that, I was 'avin a giggle)
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Dec 8, 2016 05:25
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I saw Phantom Menace based toys when I was out Christmas shopping today, just to invalidate one of the 'well they don't make any merchandise, these movies are hated' metrics.
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Dec 8, 2016 05:39
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The movie might not be super liked but Darth Maul is the best thing to come out of it. God bless that Sith cockroach, may he outlive the Death Star II in EU stuff.
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Dec 8, 2016 18:58
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homullus posted:Obi-Wan senses the dark presence behind everything in his first scene in "Episode" canon. His first lines. The Jedi catch glimpses, hints, but their fixation is on, here, now, this authority, this power structure, this Republic, this status quo. Qui-Gon never denies that Obi-Wan's anxieties are real or that they may reflect something about the future. He just tells Obi-Wan not to focus on them at the expense of the moment. Which is what everyone else in the films (Anakin, the Jedi Council, the Senate) ends up doing, with the payoff being their own destruction. Qui-Gon is right. Focusing on his vague anxieties wouldn't have availed Obi-Wan of anything. And even if he could see into the future "perfectly", he'd have to be very careful about how he went about acting on that foresight. He'd have to remember to take present circumstances into account, and remember that the future is ever-changing, and that making an irreversible decision in the present in order to stave off a nebulous vision of the future can have disastrous consequences--and even end up bringing about that very future. It's not as if Qui-Gon is completely blind to the Force. He's simply more focused on concrete facts about the current situation: He accurately senses that the Neimoidians are exhibiting an unusual amount of fear for something as trivial as the trade dispute, and later on he senses that the Neimoidians intend to kill Amidala if she stays on Naboo. Qui-Gon's being tuned in to the present feelings of the Neimoidians proves to be more useful than Obi-Wan's clouded vision of a phantom menace. Qui-Gon's way at least ends up very probably saving the Queen's life. But yes, Qui-Gon isn't perfect. And it is somewhat to Obi-Wan's credit that he could detect a slight sense of the Sith plot where neither Qui-Gon nor the Jedi Council could. But it's also true that the Sith plot depended on the Jedi gaining some knowledge of it and making a self-destructive attempt to counteract it. That's the whole reason Count Dooku told Obi-Wan about the existence of Darth Sidious and his influence over the Senate: to increase the Jedi's fear and anxiety and distrust. Those feelings are the primary weapons of the Sith against the Jedi, even when they're accurately directed against themselves. It all connects back to Luke's vision of the future in Empire, which was both accurate and a trap. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 19:14
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Cnut the Great posted:Another cool thing with those Council scenes is that you're able to see the way the passage of time and the increasing climate of conflict has affected the makeup of the Council. Daaaang. Real life ghosts.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:20
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