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Phi230 posted:yeah venom I'll join MSF if there is a dental plan and health insurance. Don't even care about wage Big Boss is the head of MSF. I'm in charge of the Diamond Dogs
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Dec 8, 2016 04:33
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Phi230 posted:im really eager to see how the USA responds to things like rationing, or even missing meals funny enough it'll be all the people with fast metabolisms that die out first, so if America can recover again it'll be even faster.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:32
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Phi230 posted:yeah venom I'll join MSF if there is a dental plan and health insurance. Don't even care about wage Then you get some weird virus and your boss shoots you in the head
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Dec 8, 2016 04:32
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we just gotta hope that some goon is a like a megasovcit and runs SA on his private server on his compound when The Doom comes
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Dec 8, 2016 04:33
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nobody loving spoil MGSV for me I still have to finish it, I'm still putting in my time in Witcher 3. This game is loving long I've been playing it since it came out but I'm not done yet
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Dec 8, 2016 04:34
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However now the more I think about it I'm guessing that Congress has too many actual Trump-style morons that aren't in anybody's pocket so it might happen  Death is certain, folks.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:35
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Phi230 posted:nobody loving spoil MGSV for me I still have to finish it, I'm still putting in my time in Witcher 3. This game is loving long I've been playing it since it came out but I'm not done yet oh god sorry
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Dec 8, 2016 04:35
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Phi230 posted:nobody loving spoil MGSV for me I still have to finish it, I'm still putting in my time in Witcher 3. This game is loving long I've been playing it since it came out but I'm not done yet Trump becomes president at the end
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Dec 8, 2016 04:35
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i am however, very ready to begin the Immortan Joe society, except as an equitable and tolerant society
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Dec 8, 2016 04:36
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comingafteryouall posted:Trump becomes president at the end the patriots were right, kojima was right and now we pay for our sins
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Dec 8, 2016 04:36
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logikv9 posted:On a side note I don't think we're going to default on the debt. Trump is a moron who thinks this is a good thing but Congress runs on that sweet corporation money and they will not let themselves willingly murder the world economy. It was nice leverage against a Democratic president because "gently caress obama" but now they know if they let Trump do this they're going down with him. Yeah, thats the reasoning that saw the stock markets rebound so quickly after the little dip when Trump was elected. Its presumed someone will be able to get a leash on him and stop him from kicking the legs out from under the world economy. But if he did it, it would be another global depression on par with the Great One, probably with the same decades of recovery time and maybe even a world war to boot as power centers realign. This is the accelerationism people wanted. Its just going to destroy two generations worth of people.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:36
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Yeah, we're not going to default on it in Trump's presidency. And the US is still likely strong enough in our lifetimes that no one can force us to pay - that doesn't make it smart to ignore the problem forever and let it completely hobble the nation in 30-40 years. Then again, ignoring problems until they become insurmountable is just the american way.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:37
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punk rebel ecks posted:Serious question, does the deficit really matter? Insofar as it builds up 'debt' which the country supposedly might have trouble paying back, no. It is impossible for a state to suffer bankruptcy in a currency it controls other than deliberately. Countries that have real debt crises have them in currencies they don't control, whether because they're borrowing in another country's currency or because they have a gold standard or some similar constraint. In abstract economic theory terms, the state running a deficit could contribute to inflation, which you may or may not find desirable. However this effect is overwhelmed by other effects in present conditions in the United States, which is why all the wealthy countries running enormous deficits ever since the financial crisis have also experienced very low inflation. If you encounter someone who thinks the deficit is a serious problem right now in the United States, Canada, stable non-Euro European countries, the Eurozone as a whole*, or Japan, they (I'm serious here) do not know what they are talking about and can be safely dismissed. It may or may not be a problem in other countries depending on circumstances. *Individual Euro countries have a real deficit constraint, but this is an artificial product of the architecture of the Euro (they do not control their own currency) and responsible for their perpetual economic crisis.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:37
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Venom Snake posted:Bernie people taking all posts tonight. The revolution marches onward 
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Dec 8, 2016 04:39
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lol this thread got a page longer while i was typing that up and it's not even long
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Dec 8, 2016 04:39
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Peel posted:lol this thread got a page longer while i was typing that up and it's not even long keep up youngblood
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Dec 8, 2016 04:41
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Not a Step posted:If I remember correctly, the vast majority of Japan's debt is held by it's own citizens, which puts it in a weird situation. Japan has an *astounding* amount of debt for its GDP, and as a tiny island nation hanging out next to an up and coming superpower its geopolitical situation is nowhere near as stable as the USAs. It also has all kinds of long term structural problems that does not make Japanese debt super appealing. But since Japanese debt is overwhelmingly held by Japanese citizens and banks all of those factors end up not mattering that much. As long as the Japanese are willing to continue buying Japanese debt everything will work out, even if the rest of the world regards it as somewhat shaky. This is what I mean, does public debt actually matter? I can understand private debt, but public seems meaningless. tower time posted:Its not a perfect parallel, but there are historical examples of large and powerful nations getting into so much debt they could no longer handle it on any reasonable level. The Ottoman Empire was at one time a technologically advanced world power, and part of their decline was taking on an increasing amount of debt owed to European nations, to the point where nearly the entirety of the national budget near the end went solely to satisfying interest on said loans. And then when they went bankrupt, British warships appeared on the horizon... That's private debt/foreign debt, not public debt.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:46
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Peel posted:Insofar as it builds up 'debt' which the country supposedly might have trouble paying back, no. It is impossible for a state to suffer bankruptcy in a currency it controls other than deliberately. Countries that have real debt crises have them in currencies they don't control, whether because they're borrowing in another country's currency or because they have a gold standard or some similar constraint. I see. I was in the Venezuela thread and people were saying that they ran out of money. How come Venezuela is broke?
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Dec 8, 2016 04:49
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tower time posted:Yeah, we're not going to default on it in Trump's presidency. And the US is still likely strong enough in our lifetimes that no one can force us to pay - that doesn't make it smart to ignore the problem forever and let it completely hobble the nation in 30-40 years. Then again, ignoring problems until they become insurmountable is just the american way. Well, so long as we keep paying it in a timely fashion the debt will never matter, and we're so deeply entrenched in the global economy it's going to take something we can't really predict to dislodge us. But if you're really concerned about the debt, start lobbying your congress people to kill wasteful military spending - not on the troops themselves but on pointless tech fetish programs like DDG-1000 or the F-35. Our Navy is so absurdly powerful that we make up over half of the ENTIRE PLANET's naval forces. Plus it takes generations to build up a strong naval tradition to build, maintain and operate a Navy. Military adventurism, surveillance, drone strikes, masturbatory miltech - all those things cost poo poo tons of money and don't really make us much safer. Its way better to have economic hegemony than it is to cruise around at night pointing guns at people.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:50
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Paul Ryan will not allow a debt default although there are 40 crazy as gently caress republicans in the House who gladly would. Ryan would pass something with Democrats if he had to to avoid default, which would set off an unholy hellstorm among his base, but that wouldn't affect anyone but Republican congressmen.
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Dec 8, 2016 05:04
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there's a big article in the atlantic or somewhere talking about the value of political establishments and the danger posed by outsider insurgent movements and it has some good points and some bad points but it also has a segment where the author says 'and these problems mean we couldn't do important things like raise taxes and cut spending in the middle of a weak economy!' and i swear it's the  est thing i have ever readpunk rebel ecks posted:I see. I was in the Venezuela thread and people were saying that they ran out of money. How come Venezuela is broke? I don't know the specifics, but my understanding is Venezuela has a lot of debt in foreign currency (this is common for poorer countries where they need to import stuff and people aren't as confident in their currency as for something like dollars, euros, pound sterling or yen). If you have debt in your own currency you can, in extremis, just print money to pay it off. This has a potential risk of inflation but it means you can't go bankrupt. You can't do that for foreign country currency. This is the problem the Eurozone countries have - effectively every eurozone country is borrowing in a foreign currency because none of them control the European Central Bank. Venezuela is also having rapid inflation, and my lay understanding (increasingly thin, I learned this stuff from reading the debates over first world austerity) is this can be put down to 'excessive government spending' but in the context of a severe economic collapse. Zimbabwe's inflation was similar. When your national economy falls apart like that and the government is trying to keep the music going things get ugly. The United States isn't anywhere near such a situation and I'm not sure how one could come about short of some level of nuclear exchange.
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Dec 8, 2016 05:04
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punk rebel ecks posted:This is what I mean, does public debt actually matter? I can understand private debt, but public seems meaningless. Debt only matters if people don't trust you (therefore you have to offer higher interest rates to get people to buy your debt, which leads to bigger debt payments, which generally leads to more debt in an unpleasant cycle) or if you don't control the currency your debt is issued in (as Peel mentioned). Other than that it doesn't really matter. Japan can do its thing despite being shaky as a house of cards because the Japanese people have unerring (and probably misplaced) faith in the Japanese government, and so are willing to keep buying debt at low interest rates thus keeping the government afloat. If, for some reason, Japan ever stopped buying up its own debt for cheap and was forced to raise interest rates they could just mint a fuckton of yen and inflate the debt away, but that would cause a massive economic disruption as everyone's yen denominated debt suddenly became worthless. punk rebel ecks posted:I see. I was in the Venezuela thread and people were saying that they ran out of money. How come Venezuela is broke? Venezuela went broke because no one wanted to buy their poo poo anymore. They could mint all the bolivars in the world to inflate away their debt, but no one would take it in trade so they couldnt buy anything, and Venezuela does not produce enough consumer goods to have a functional economy without imports. No one wants their poo poo bolivars, so consequently unless you have money people *do* want you can't buy anything. America has a unique advantage in that the Dollar (and to an extent the T-bill) is the international reserve currency. Someone somewhere will always want your US dollars in exchange for their goods, because they know they can turn around and use those US dollars to buy something they want without even having to exchange them for local currency. This is why America defaulting would absolutely gently caress the world economy, because it wouldnt just be our country going down, it would be every country that uses the dollar as a trade currency. E: Peel is better at the specifics of it. Essentially Venezuela relies on oil exports and the global oil market took a downturn. They have some very expensive social support programs to keep the populace happy despite all the rampant graft and corruption so they were forced into printing more money to keep everything going despite the nationalized oil industry going to poo poo. As they inflated the bolivar merchants abroad and at home decided to stop taking them at face value (or at all) and left Venezuela high and dry. Inside the borders the State could mandate price controls to try and keep things going, but Venezuela doesnt make enough consumer goods and massive shortages in things like toilet paper, which they imported and could no longer find a supplier for willing to take bolivars, served to highlight the failures of the government. Venezuela didn't run out of money - quite the opposite, they have a fuckton of bolivars now. They ran out of people willing to exchange that money for stuff. Nix Panicus has issued a correction as of 05:15 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 05:06
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I bitched about the debt even in high school during the Bush years, but mainly because it was mostly going to Trickle Down Theory and F-31orwhateverfailures25s and poo poo. Spending it on infrastructure and such is the only way to actually eventually come around to making money, but conservatives like to pretend investment doesn't exist and something something "run country like a business" which apparently means spending no capital for eventual income, while still clamoring against the one sure income (taxes) that we can grab. It's great poo poo. But China owning that much in our bonds (which they do) is pretty worrisome even if they'll never demand we pay up, simply because it exerts so much influence, as can be seen with the current Taiwan crisis.
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Dec 8, 2016 05:10
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Don't businesses these days raise tremendous amounts of capital off of over inflated perceived value and then spend it and let future historians determine if they made a profit? Can we run America like that?
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Dec 8, 2016 05:12
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The national debt is quite far from being one of my top concerns, more like a symptom of a very broken system. Maybe the debt is not crushing us at this time, but much of it was taken on for reasons I think we can largely agree did not benefit the average person in the US very much. Tax cuts, wars, corporate subsidies... I'd hope we could shrink the debt over time if the government gets spending priorities and taxation in order, which is to say when 95% of the nation's problems are fixed anyhow.
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Dec 8, 2016 05:13
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I just laugh at all these Tea Partiers who suddenly care about the debt when Cheney argued in his VP debate that because we had a surplus (which didn't mean the debt was gone, but he obfuscated that fact) we have to "give back to the taxpayer." Just not through effective healthcare, clearly.
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Dec 8, 2016 05:17
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Phi230 posted:nobody loving spoil MGSV for me I still have to finish it, I'm still putting in my time in Witcher 3. This game is loving long I've been playing it since it came out but I'm not done yet Witcher 3 owns but it's DLC owns even more.
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Dec 8, 2016 05:24
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Phi230 posted:we just gotta hope that some goon is a like a megasovcit and runs SA on his private server on his compound when The Doom comes Lowtax will draw you a spaceship for only $1,000,000,000,000 2018USD
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Dec 8, 2016 05:25
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:Lowtax will draw you a spaceship for only $1,000,000,000,000 2018USD Think of all the new denominations of money for Trump to put his face on!
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Dec 8, 2016 05:29
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Also not raising the debt ceiling is way less likely with one party in control of everything since it was just used as a political bargaining chip. They now could (and will) cut a shitload of spending instead, which was the point in the first place. Also I don't many of the even hardcore GOP people actually want the country to default on debt because it is such a needlessly stupid thing to do. I'm sure there are a few though.
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Dec 8, 2016 05:31
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Homeless Friend posted:Witcher 3 owns but it's DLC owns even more. Blood and Wine was goddamn amazing still gotta get around to heart of stone
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Dec 8, 2016 05:34
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I will not watch anime until Keith Ellison becomes the DNC Chair. Inshallah.
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Dec 8, 2016 05:35
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Finishing all the DLC and finally uninstalling Witcher 3 was surprisingly sad
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Dec 8, 2016 05:40
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If public debt doesn't mean much, could it be possible if we decided not even to keep track of it?Peel posted:I don't know the specifics, but my understanding is Venezuela has a lot of debt in foreign currency (this is common for poorer countries where they need to import stuff and people aren't as confident in their currency as for something like dollars, euros, pound sterling or yen). Could you elaborate on this please? punk rebel ecks has issued a correction as of 06:00 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 05:47
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The Witcher games aren't very good. Democrats should tack hard into Johnny Cash. The Man Comes Around and God's Gonna Cut You Down are both heavy with the messaging they should be promoting.
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Dec 8, 2016 06:33
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Or how about she Garth Brooks We Shall Be Free and Friends in Low Places
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Dec 8, 2016 06:34
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Pick posted:Apropos of nothing, I found out my mother hung out with Chuck Schumer once and she says he's a "retard" (her word). haha one of the older ladies with whom I was phone banking for hill lived in park slope and was neighbor to chuck, de blasio, and wiener and loving hated all three. Hated Hillary too for that matter.
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Dec 8, 2016 06:49
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FireDooley posted:Looking forward to hearing about that TN Dem meeting too, I'm planning on going to the Nashville one on Friday, assuming they'll let me crash it. Haven't been a part of the party despite voting for them every time, now is probably a good time to start... I would wholeheartedly encourage any TN Democrat to attend. I'm kinda in a special situation, though, as my county doesn't really have much of a local party, so the meetings I have attended has been to network and find out what I could to help get the local party up and running again. My thoughts were that I will leave that meeting either fired up or pissed off. If neither happens, the party may be beyond redemption. It was a long meeting, but productive. I may have to hang out with the Hamblin County and Knox County Democrats for a while until I can get a crowd going on the home turf. I am definitely fired up. Now, as promised, here's some more Appalachian memes:                  
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Dec 8, 2016 06:52
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Bushiz posted:Democrats should tack hard into Johnny Cash. The Man Comes Around and God's Gonna Cut You Down are both heavy with the messaging they should be promoting. gently caress yes. man in black is fuckin' on-point, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY8_vZXo8oY&hd=1
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Dec 8, 2016 07:07
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Lord of Pie posted:"The bernie bros intimidated 14 billion white women into not voting" A while back but seriously, who the gently caress is Peter Daou?
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Dec 8, 2016 08:32
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