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Shimrra Jamaane posted:It's disappointing that the 7700k still doesn't seem like a worthwhile upgrade over my OC 2500k. I want to build a whole new PC already but I might as well continue to wait as SSDs continue to fall in price.
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Dec 6, 2016 18:57
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ufarn posted:Are they counting on people to buy PCI expansions or something? Or hooking them up to hubs. It does seem a bit curious if it's supposed to be the future. Dongles. Dongles everywhere.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:16
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:It's disappointing that the 7700k still doesn't seem like a worthwhile upgrade over my OC 2500k. I want to build a whole new PC already but I might as well continue to wait as SSDs continue to fall in price. My plan is 2nd half of 2018 to build a new machine to replace mine. (I don't even overclock the 2500k. My motherboard doesn't do overclocks without disabling lower power states for some dumb reason, and really, I don't play demanding enough games to care! Although, I'm going to pay attention more to the motherboard more when I do my next build... drat it.) I'm hoping it'll be a sweet spot that year. I think things are internally bandwidth starved right now, and PCIe 4 might be out then. I think that extra bandwidth will make a difference for things like multiple USB-C ports that do 3.1gen2 or whatever bizarre versioning they come up with next. Maybe 10 Gbps NICs. SSDs are likely to get even faster, and need that bandwidth, too. In addition to all that, maybe 6 cores from Coffee Lake. Hopefully monitors that do 1440p at 144Hz with *Sync come down in price a bit, and the GPUs capable of driving them might be more affordable. Crossing my fingers for a good couple of years here.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:33
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Z270s have a questionably valuable additional feature over the Z170 in that they'll will be Optane-ready.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:40
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ufarn posted:Are they counting on people to buy PCI expansions or something? Or hooking them up to hubs. It does seem a bit curious if it's supposed to be the future. To expand on my last post, here's the thing I think might be standing in the way right now. (Lacking any insider knowledge, just guessing from the outside here.) A single PCIe 3.0 lane offers 980 MB/s bandwidth. A single USB 2.0 port was 60 MB/s, so you could easily fit like 16 ports into a single PCIe lane allocation. A USB 3.1gen2 port is 1200 MB/s. So you need more than 1 PCIe lane allocation per port! With PCIe 4.0, you get 1900 MB/s bandwidth per lane. Which means with 2 lanes, you can fit 3 ports at full speed. So my suspicion is that we're waiting on PCIe 4 for things to become standard here. They don't want to offer more ports because people might get upset when the port doesn't offer the speed it's supposed to, and allocating more PCIe lanes to offer that speed gets expensive fast. (And for similar reasons, hopefully we'll also get 10 Gbps NICs standard as well. They'll fit into 1 PCIe 4.0 lane, too.)
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Dec 6, 2016 19:54
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crazypenguin posted:My plan is 2nd half of 2018 to build a new machine to replace mine. (I don't even overclock the 2500k. My motherboard doesn't do overclocks without disabling lower power states for some dumb reason, and really, I don't play demanding enough games to care! Although, I'm going to pay attention more to the motherboard more when I do my next build... drat it.) That all makes good sense but man, I really don't want to wait until 2018. But I feel that 2017 might just be an incremental year for everything and 2018 will be some hardware breakthroughs. But I'm sure we say that every year when looking toward the next.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:56
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Are you just waiting for prices to fall to just upgrade to a bigger SSD, or do you have none at all?
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Dec 6, 2016 20:33
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I went from 2500k->6700k and honestly the only noticeable difference is the way more awesome heat sink/fan making it 10x quieter. Yeah, hang on to those at least until real zen benchmarks come out.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:43
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Z270s have a questionably valuable additional feature over the Z170 in that they'll will be Optane-ready. RAM you can't flush by rebooting. *shudder*
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Dec 6, 2016 22:43
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dont be mean to me posted:RAM you can't flush by rebooting. *shudder* Not to mention the first inklings from Optane aren't that impressive save for IOPS.
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Dec 7, 2016 00:03
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Combat Pretzel posted:Are you just waiting for prices to fall to just upgrade to a bigger SSD, or do you have none at all? The former. I'd love a 1tb 960evo since it would cover everything.
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Dec 7, 2016 00:34
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:The former. I'd love a 1tb 960evo since it would cover everything. The problem is that flash prices are actually increasing lately. It's not Taiwan 2011 bad, but they're up 6-10% in the last quarter and expected to continue to rise. It's a combination of the fact that Samsung trashed an entire model of their smartphone, generally increased demand, fabs wanting to move away from older/less profitable processes and certainly not wanting to increase production, a general wafer shortage, etc. quote:Specifically, SSD costs have increased 6 percent to 10 percent this quarter compared to the third quarter, TrendForce said in a Wednesday report. Those prices will increase further next quarter, too, the analyst firm predicted.
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Dec 7, 2016 02:29
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No SSDs are not getting more expensive, you should not rush out and buy one while you still can just ignore this silliness.
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Dec 7, 2016 02:31
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Pryor on Fire posted:No SSDs are not getting more expensive, you should not rush out and buy one while you still can just ignore this silliness. Look at this goon tryin' to hog all the reasonably priced SSDs for himself!
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Dec 7, 2016 02:59
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ufarn posted:Are they counting on people to buy PCI expansions or something? Or hooking them up to hubs. It does seem a bit curious if it's supposed to be the future. There are USB-a to USB-c cables. Most devices won't need the bandwith of USB 3.1 or the power delivery features (and i doubt you'd want to power several 100 watt devices through the traces of your motherboard).
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Dec 7, 2016 18:40
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How would Samsung Trashing their Notes cause Flash to rise? I would think if anything they could re-purpose the Flash for those phones (maybe not the already used ones, but all the flash that was to go into ones being built) into other devices since it was their UFS stuff that was supposed to be really good. Wouldn't that cause a bit of a surplus if anything in that neck of the woods?
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Dec 7, 2016 19:24
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samsung trashing their notes isn't a thing causing shortages, it's replacing them with a doubled S7 production rate and recycling BGA chips of any kind is not a simple matter at all and you might as well recycle it for the trouble it causes the bigger reason is that OEMs and embedded device makers are realizing that SSDs/eMMC are really really loving good, replacing their fleets of lovely embedded HDDs, more things are taking up flash storage capacity like car computers and TVs, adding to the strain to the global flash supply already being eaten up by mobile devices and the next big thing, 3D nand production, isn't going online as fast as people want it to and everyone's already maxed out their incredibly finicky to produce 15-16nm processes (though only sandisk managed to make a good product out of that) Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 19:37
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There is no flash memory shortage. I don't know how to put it more plainly than that, it's complete clickbait horseshit don't believe it.
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Dec 7, 2016 19:56
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Pryor on Fire posted:There is no flash memory shortage. I don't know how to put it more plainly than that, it's complete clickbait horseshit don't believe it. Source your quotes
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Dec 7, 2016 20:27
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Yeah the only thing the note 7 thing did to samsung was cut profits by a third by paying for refunds, returns, damage control, sticking them with a stock of exynos specifically modified for the note they have to find new homes for, the other ic stock they probably returned or sold, broken contracts for supply as they manufacture that poo poo in house in korea, and trash an entire ddi chip line. The only place the flash chips would come into play are the ic stocks, which they could resell or repurpose unless they somehow were compatible with the note 7s board and stuff only, which seems dumb.
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Dec 7, 2016 20:37
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PerrineClostermann posted:Source your quotes Jesus christ people it's not exactly a newsflash that tech journalism is terrible, please don't actually fall for the bait when a nobody at a nowhere firm makes a dumb projection then a bunch of dumb words get written in the most convoluted way around around that bad projection to get you to click and post dumb fake poo poo. There is no loving flash memory shortage. I can't believe I even had to type these words, what a waste of time.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:46
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There can still be tons of spare flash and what the articles mean is that demand may simply just be outstripping production, but they're not going to shift in price until they actually run out of flash that is yet to be sold (hence the clickbait/investor speculation), which is unlikely. 3D nand is pretty much all but figured out by now.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:21
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Sorry to be snippy, it's just getting so tiring, every day there are all these stories in the tech world like this that people think are true that have absolutely no basis in reality. Like zero, none at all. Some shithead writes a report, emails his buddy who already has the lovely article laid out. Not sure why I'm bothering to fight them it's just something like this every 5 minutes: Amazon denies to CNET it’s opening 2,000 grocery stores: “It’s absolutely not correct” But people will still repeat that there is a flash shortage and Amazon is opening 2000 stores for the next 18 months and I will bash my loving head into the keyboard every time.
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Dec 8, 2016 00:30
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Yeah, now people will rush to buy flash futures, hoarding all the flashes in tankers off shore >
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Dec 8, 2016 00:35
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Pryor, you sound pretty knowledgeable about this, so when do you think the shortage will end (either through reduced demand or increased production)?
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Dec 8, 2016 03:21
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The real shortage was the friends we made along the way
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Dec 8, 2016 03:23
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VostokProgram posted:The real shortage was the friends we made along the way Joke's on you, I didn't make any friends. 
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Dec 8, 2016 05:22
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I'm looking for a processor to run a home server for a storage RAID (backups, videos, music), certificate training (linux VMs for RHCSA), and whatever else I might want to experiment with. Is something from the Atom line going to be enough for my needs (something like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182855 )? I'm out of my depth when it comes to server-oriented processors, and there's so many to choose from that I'm really lost. Should I be looking for a cheap Xeon processor instead? Also here is a friend for all of you. 
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Dec 8, 2016 08:27
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So Intel has started their holiday 2016 deal. $200 i7-6850k or $134 i7-6700k. I don't really need either of them, but a $600 CPU for $200 is a drat good deal. Too bad though 2011-3 is basically dead now. I already have a 4790k and there isn't anything I do that would actually benefit from having a 6850k or 6700k. Though, eventually at some point, I kind of would like to try my hand at an unRaid server.
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Dec 8, 2016 10:22
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SlayVus posted:So Intel has started their holiday 2016 deal. $200 i7-6850k or $134 i7-6700k. I don't really need either of them, but a $600 CPU for $200 is a drat good deal. Too bad though 2011-3 is basically dead now. I already have a 4790k and there isn't anything I do that would actually benefit from having a 6850k or 6700k. Though, eventually at some point, I kind of would like to try my hand at an unRaid server. Is this the retail edge thing where you have to work somewhere that sells their products?
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Dec 8, 2016 10:27
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Rexxed posted:Is this the retail edge thing where you have to work somewhere that sells their products? Must work at any of these stores. https://retailedge.intel.com/50/fullterms#Approved Edit: yes this is the retail edge program. Tired spent like 2 hours already getting the learning activities to qualify for this at 5am now. SlayVus fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 10:33
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Actuarial Fables posted:I'm looking for a processor to run a home server for a storage RAID (backups, videos, music), certificate training (linux VMs for RHCSA), and whatever else I might want to experiment with. Is something from the Atom line going to be enough for my needs (something like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182855 )? I'm out of my depth when it comes to server-oriented processors, and there's so many to choose from that I'm really lost. Should I be looking for a cheap Xeon processor instead? I wouldn't advise using an Atom system for a system that you expect to handle virtual machines, even if they'll be lightweight ones. But you also don't need a full on new Xeon system for this either. If you're looking to go with new chips, a recent i5 system would probably be the best. Otherwise, try to get a hold of an old used Xeon from like 2013 or so - like one using the E3-1240 v3.
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Dec 8, 2016 16:30
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It looks like Intel either paid money or provided free optimization help in exchange for game developers making some game modes i7 only: https://steamcommunity.com/app/342180/discussions/0/152391285458876458/?ctp=2 If this continues to be a trend going forwards, would older slower i7s end up "better" for gaming than future faster not-i7 CPUs? Or is there some really simple low-level way to make an i5 spoof being an i7 at the OS level? The meat of it: quote:Working with Intel allowed us to create even more content than we originally planned, including these modes and the physics systems in the game, making Arizona Sunshine one of the richest VR experiences possible. We want to give 5th, 6th and 7th gen Intel® Core™ i7 owners first glimpse into these additional modes, but they’ll be available March 6, 2017 to everyone who owns the game.
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Dec 8, 2016 16:55
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They actually whitelisted only newer gen i7 variants, even the 4xxx parts are "incompatible". Only they ran fine as long as you patched away the whitelist with a hack, particularly on overclocked k series parts which are quite popular among VR users. It was just a timed exclusive marketing deal with intel to prod people into upgrading their processors for no reason. They've since disabled the whitelist in a patch because people who bought their game felt a bit ripped off.
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Dec 8, 2016 17:05
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SlayVus posted:Must work at any of these stores. https://retailedge.intel.com/50/fullterms#Approved Do you also work at the retail spots? Wish I knew someone who did, a bunch of friends are looking to rebuild their systems and this is the kind of deal that is a big difference maker.
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Dec 8, 2016 17:11
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Twerk from Home posted:It looks like Intel either paid money or provided free optimization help in exchange for game developers making some game modes i7 only: https://steamcommunity.com/app/342180/discussions/0/152391285458876458/?ctp=2 "Free optimization" probably just means money.
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Dec 8, 2016 17:18
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Actuarial Fables posted:I'm looking for a processor to run a home server for a storage RAID (backups, videos, music), certificate training (linux VMs for RHCSA), and whatever else I might want to experiment with. "Cheap" (E3) Xeons are just like normal i5s or i7s with ECC support and a few other business-oriented features added. You can get a lot of cores with a more serious E5 or E7 model, but you'll spend a lot of money to do it. Honestly for home server stuff and VM tinkering an i5 is probably fine from a performance perspective at least. I have a Linux home server (torrents, a couple VNC sessions, FTP, routing/NAT) running on a "Celeron" (Atom) N3150 and it's quite adequate, but like fishmech said for VMs you'll want a bit more oomph. My recommendation from a price:performance perspective is to wait for a deal like the one I got last Friday, a Poweredge T20 (Dell microATX Haswell server) for $250 with an E3-1225v3 which is basically an i5-4460. I've also seen similar deals on eBay for Lenovo's TS140, another microATX Haswell box ($190 with an i3-4150 to be specific). Either of these will be able to go up to 32GB of memory and 4 internal HDDs (or more with 2.5" + a SATA card), which is a pretty good amount for casual tinkering. They have proper server chipsets in case you want ECC, and you're definitely not paying extra for it like you would with a custom build. I'm not aware of a deal that's this good right now but I see similar ones pretty frequently on slickdeals/techbargains so you should too if you want to keep an eye out for them. If you'd like I can try to remember to PM you when I see one. I'd only recommend doing a custom build if you don't care about ECC because you will pay through the nose for any recent aftermarket board with a server chipset. Even with a consumer board you will still pay more money to build something similar than you would for a prebuilt system like those above, because they are benefiting from huge economy of scale on their parts. Still, if you want a lot of drives or something else specific then it might make sense and in that case I would go with a Skylake i3 or i5 in a B150 or H170 board depending on how many cores and what other connectivity you would like. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 17:43
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NewFatMike posted:Do you also work at the retail spots? Wish I knew someone who did, a bunch of friends are looking to rebuild their systems and this is the kind of deal that is a big difference maker. I work at one, buy kind of plan on taking advantage of this offer.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:04
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I had been hoping there would be some discounts at least somewhere for folks not in the retail space, but I'm not seeing any. Rats.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:02
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Yeah when retail edge comes up in forum posts it's kind of a tease for most people to read about it. Not useful info unless you have a personal friend working at a participating retailer. Retail edge isn't really a discount or a sale, it's a training program for people who work in retail selling intel stuff and as part of it a couple times a year they run a deal where you can buy processors really cheap if you have participated in enough training. You have to spend time doing intel online training that teaches you intel marketing sales pitches, product knowledge etc and it is limited to one processor per person. The retailedge website and training are there all year round, the summer deal and winter deal where you can buy cheap processors are just something they do a couple times a year to drum up interest, otherwise nobody would ever bother doing any of their online training. You'll never see pricing anywhere near that good available to the general public. In the past I worked in a retailer that was part of it, at that time if you bought a retail edge deal processor you were agreeing to terms and conditions saying you cannot sell it within 6 months or it voids the warranty. After 6 months it would be okay. Of course if you have a friend working at a retailer who wants to let you use their deal, then if you need an RMA you just get your friend to set it up. That was in the past, I don't have that job anymore so I'm not sure if that info is out of date.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:16
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