|
Anime Schoolgirl posted:doesn't help when she went on campaign wording intended to drive a wedge between economic reform and civil rights even though those two are attached at the hip This is my feelings on the postmortem distilled down into one sentence. Good poo poo.
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 19:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 23:27 |
|
|
Phi230 posted:Ignore is for cowards plus whenever tatum or fulcrum start posting every post in the thread tends to be someone engaging with them so it's kind of useless
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 19:26
|
|
|
Fullhouse posted:plus whenever tatum or fulcrum start posting every post in the thread tends to be someone engaging with them so it's kind of useless this is actually a good point, I guess learn to skip their posts and anyone who replies to them because lol
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 19:27
|
|
|
Anime Schoolgirl posted:it rings hollow when you aren't going to speak a single word against the organizations and companies (who are your Precious Donors) who perpetuate that poo poo though um ill have you know wells fargo is deeply committed to minority interests 
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 19:29
|
|
|
Phi230 posted:Ignore is for cowards If you ignore people in C-SPAM, is it truly C-SPAM??? Makes you think.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 19:35
|
|
|
Oh Snapple! posted:um ill have you know wells fargo is deeply committed to minority interests Of course, if minorities dont own houses how can they foreclose on them?
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 19:35
|
|
|
Notorious R.I.M. posted:It actually blows my mind that one can be in such a huff about Trump's *-isms while not being able to see that Clinton was just stirring the identity pot to her own ends. Both are very toxic and they feed off of each other. I blame the BernieBros.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 19:35
|
|
|
Homeless Friend posted:If you ignore people in C-SPAM, is it truly C-SPAM??? Makes you think. nah, only D&Ders who got lost
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 19:35
|
|
|
I like this article: http://www.mtv.com/news/2955564/skin-in-the-game/ quote:The lesson we should draw from Clinton’s loss is not that white supremacy is unbeatable at the polls, but that it’s not going to beat itself. White people are not going to instinctively recoil from racist appeals, and neither are people of color going to flock to the polls to defeat them. If the Democratic Party would like to keep more Donald Trumps from winning in the future, they are going to have to take the extraordinary step of doing politics. Maybe playing a video clip of Trump being bad and then making a funny face while saying "Bwah?!?" is not a winning strategy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 19:48
|
|
|
AngryBooch posted:I like this article: I completely agree with this. We need to talk about the actual dangers of this poo poo not just show him say 'and we're gonna kick Muslims out' and go 'haha get a load of this guy right'. This election was a reminder that for many white voters there was nothing wrong with that, and for many minority voters that was just a super common thing to hear already that wouldn't rush them to the polls.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 19:53
|
|
|
Like I've said before. Intersectionality is a thing. Clinton's campaign focused a lot on minority issues, and I don't think you can focus on that too much, but it clearly didn't intersect with anything on the economic axis which led to the campaign failing to get enough support from voters who voted primarily on economic issues. It had a lot of depth for basically no breadth at all. You can and must address both economic and social issues, because they are heavily intertwined. You can't do just one of them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:04
|
|
|
GlyphGryph posted:trying to keep this forward looking to some extent: TRUMP IS RACIST!
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:04
|
|
|
Tatum Girlparts posted:I completely agree with this. We need to talk about the actual dangers of this poo poo not just show him say 'and we're gonna kick Muslims out' and go 'haha get a load of this guy right'. This election was a reminder that for many white voters there was nothing wrong with that, and for many minority voters that was just a super common thing to hear already that wouldn't rush them to the polls. I think your understanding is mostly right but you're being too harsh on Trump voters because you expect them to have the same advanced understanding of morality as you do. Realize that you're in a tiny minority of people that make ethical decisions based on doing things like weighing good vs bad against your moral axioms. If you go look at voters' decisions from a less morally complex perspective, you'll find a lot more empathy with their decisions. I think something like this is a really good read to put a different Moral Hat on: http://www.simplypsychology.org/kohlberg.html
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:06
|
|
|
Tatum Girlparts posted:I completely agree with this. We need to talk about the actual dangers of this poo poo not just show him say 'and we're gonna kick Muslims out' and go 'haha get a load of this guy right'. This election was a reminder that for many white voters there was nothing wrong with that, and for many minority voters that was just a super common thing to hear already that wouldn't rush them to the polls. I'm not saying Clinton made the right choices, but I am saying I can see what logic she and her campaign used in how they reacted to that rhetoric. Calling Mexicans rapists and saying we have to stop Muslim immigration is straight up evil to me, but it's clear now that I, a completely secular, liberal deviant, have a more stringent moral code than the religious right. Nichael has issued a correction as of 20:11 on Dec 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:08
|
|
|
Nichael posted:In Clinton's defense, the part about kicking out Muslims or putting them in camps is essentially unheard of and unprecedented in modern American politics. It's supposed to be the antithesis of what the United States stands for, and be absolutely repellent to our values. "From now on!" -The WWII generation, probably.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:12
|
|
|
Nichael posted:In Clinton's defense, the part about kicking out Muslims or putting them in camps is essentially unheard of and unprecedented in modern American politics. It's supposed to be the antithesis of what the United States stands for, and be absolutely repellent to our values. Instead, people just shrugged and didn't care. That was shocking to me. Lol if that was shocking to you you must not know a lot about America
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:12
|
|
|
Here's an idea--perhaps you're both right, and Hillary had enough money to cover both ends. Their polling told them that white working class Rust Belt voters were not going to vote for her, so she concentrated instead on turning out her base and appealing heavily to minorities. The problem came in the inherent assumption that speaking to people who disagree with you--or in Hillary's case, maybe don't even like you all that much--is a waste of time. We saw it with Bernie--his willingness to talk to people who normally would never even bother listening made them think "hey, you know, he might be a filthy liberal, but at least he has the courage of his convictions. I can respect that." She had this baked-in reputation as an out-of-touch elitist snob, and instead of trying to confound expectations she intentionally fulfilled them. That, more than anything, was what was so aggravating. She cloistered herself away from the media, threw huge fundraisers with wealthy donors, and said things like the "basket of deplorables" poo poo. I'm not saying she should have pasted on a fake Southern accent and tried to be folksy and plain-spoken, but she didn't even make an effort to look like she cared.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:13
|
|
|
Nichael posted:In Clinton's defense, the part about kicking out Muslims or putting them in camps is essentially unheard of and unprecedented in modern American politics. It's supposed to be the antithesis of what the United States stands for, and be absolutely repellent to our values. Instead, people just shrugged and didn't care. That was shocking to me. I don't remember Trump ever saying he was gonna deport all Muslims. Just stop immigration of Muslims. Banning immigration of certain races or nationalities actually has a rich history in the US.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:13
|
|
|
Venom Snake posted:I'm a filthy NOVA yank but I love me some cornbread Yankee or otherwise, them what don't hate cornbread I call cornrade. RENEGADE CUCKSKY posted:it just pissed off a lot of the AFLCIO affiliates because they feel that the AFL is yet again giving us no real choice on who to endorse (the Bernie v Hillary stuff was v tumultuous for a lot of unions. vast majority of many of our rank-and-file wanted Bernie and felt betrayed that their Executive Boards went against their will and endorsed Hillary) How big of a push would you say there is to change the executive board when elections come or would the hope be that the Ellison endorsement would take the heat off?
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:17
|
|
|
Alter Ego posted:Here's an idea--perhaps you're both right, and Hillary had enough money to cover both ends. I would add to this that she took her base for granted. Sure, she was never going to appeal to the out-of-work factory workers who would never ever vote for a Democrat in a million years, but surely the people in Milwaukee and Detroit and Flint and Philadelphia will offset them and hand her those states anyway. (People were saying this even on election night, And for good reason, since that's how it usually turns out.) And then, for a variety of reasons, that didn't happen.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:20
|
|
|
Nichael posted:In Clinton's defense, the part about kicking out Muslims or putting them in camps is essentially unheard of and unprecedented in modern American politics. It's supposed to be the antithesis of what the United States stands for, and be absolutely repellent to our values. Instead, people just shrugged and didn't care. That was shocking to me. Maybe people got tired of the double standard of government officials running sanctuary cities in violation of federal law while simultaneously putting people in jail for not issuing marriage licenses or refusing to bake a cake. I will agree with you that calling Mexicans rapists and scapegoating Muslims is a bad thing, but outright refusing to enforce federal law to pad your voting rolls seems like a pretty lovely thing to do if you want to use the law as a cudgel at the same time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:20
|
|
|
Nichael posted:In Clinton's defense, the part about kicking out Muslims or putting them in camps is essentially unheard of and unprecedented in modern American politics. It's supposed to be the antithesis of what the United States stands for, and be absolutely repellent to our values. Instead, people just shrugged and didn't care. That was shocking to me. I see you came from the America that didn't have a Chinese Exclusion Act.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:20
|
|
|
Notorious R.I.M. posted:I think your understanding is mostly right but you're being too harsh on Trump voters because you expect them to have the same advanced understanding of morality as you do. Realize that you're in a tiny minority of people that make ethical decisions based on doing things like weighing good vs bad against your moral axioms. If you go look at voters' decisions from a less morally complex perspective, you'll find a lot more empathy with their decisions. I think something like this is a really good read to put a different Moral Hat on: http://www.simplypsychology.org/kohlberg.html I don't think I'm being too harsh because I've literally never claimed every single Trump voter is a KKK member who went to the polls shouting MUSLIMS AND MEXICANS OUT OF AMERICA despite what some people seem to think I'm saying. My stance has always been that white nationalism was a major part of his campaign, and a large draw to a good bit of his voters. White nationalism is a specific term, it's the umbrella that white supremacists and white separatists and all those other groups fall under. That's why that term is used, because it can mean a ton of things. The woman who's quote sparked all this was speaking from a place of white nationalism. That doesn't mean she was demanding that we kick everyone darker than her out of the country, but it means her lens was one where 'white' is the default for 'real america' or whatever term she used I forgot. His framing of 'one america under one god under one flag' was one of white nationalism, because before saying that he spent his speeches talking about how immigrants are dangerous and the evil outside (((globalists))) conspire against real america and all that jazz. White nationalism is a danger that has to be confronted not because every single person who subscribes to it is gonna go lynch a black guy or burn a church down, but exactly because that woman talking about how horrible it was that Clinton talked too much about those immigrants and minorities and not real everyday americans absolutely does not think there was anything wrong with that view of things. It's a pervasive, cancerous, mindset that Trump was able to tap into just like countless other politicians have, and that's why we need to do more than go 'get a load of THIS rear end in a top hat, right guys? Right?' Nichael posted:In Clinton's defense, the part about kicking out Muslims or putting them in camps is essentially unheard of and unprecedented in modern American politics. It's supposed to be the antithesis of what the United States stands for, and be absolutely repellent to our values. Instead, people just shrugged and didn't care. That was shocking to me. and, springboarding off that bit, I think while it's true Trump was a whole new level of overt bigotry, if you talk to Muslim activists and all most of them met that with 'well yes that's loving horrible but also it's actually nothing new'. There are plenty of functions in the government that are basically used to put muslims on a list and give the government just cause to do things like, say, tap mosques and all. That's the other side of the issue with just making a funny face at bigotry, a lot of the groups being targeted by it just kinda go 'yea, so he thinks the same as the past few presidents have?' Obviously they want that to stop, and yea a guy having surrogates go around saying 'hey ya know the internment camps worked for the Japanese...' is a for sure new flavor of horrible, but you need to give them more than 'this is bad' to hold onto. I guess what I'm saying is a lot of the people shrugging who were actually part of those communities weren't so much going 'haha that wacky Trump, what WON'T he say' as they were going 'yea this is just what america has been for us anyway for the past while'.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:21
|
|
|
Guy Goodbody posted:I don't remember Trump ever saying he was gonna deport all Muslims. Just stop immigration of Muslims. Banning immigration of certain races or nationalities actually has a rich history in the US. Phi230 posted:Lol if that was shocking to you you must not know a lot about America Admiral Ray posted:I see you came from the America that didn't have a Chinese Exclusion Act. I said modern American history. I knew people would respond with these points so that's why I said modern.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:22
|
|
|
So two important things I was reading about. The 1st is health related: U.S. life expectancy declines for the first time since 1993.
I can only believe things will worsen if the ACA is rolled back without a replacement. The 2nd is economic related: Upward mobility has fallen greatly and income inequality has surged.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
Tatum Girlparts posted:and, springboarding off that bit, I think while it's true Trump was a whole new level of overt bigotry, if you talk to Muslim activists and all most of them met that with 'well yes that's loving horrible but also it's actually nothing new'. There are plenty of functions in the government that are basically used to put muslims on a list and give the government just cause to do things like, say, tap mosques and all. That's the other side of the issue with just making a funny face at bigotry, a lot of the groups being targeted by it just kinda go 'yea, so he thinks the same as the past few presidents have?' Obviously they want that to stop, and yea a guy having surrogates go around saying 'hey ya know the internment camps worked for the Japanese...' is a for sure new flavor of horrible, but you need to give them more than 'this is bad' to hold onto.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
Gene Hackman Fan posted:Yankee or otherwise, them what don't hate cornbread I call cornrade. GHF post more funny redneck commie memes plz. Thanks in advance. Also, thanks for trying to fix this hosed up idiot state at a local level. When I went to vote in the primaries the poll lady gave me a Republican ballot 2 times in a row even after correcting her, I can only assume it's because I was the only Democrat that voted in person that morning.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
Nichael posted:I said modern American history. I knew people would respond with these points so that's why I said modern. not to be a dick, but modern American history probably starts sometime before our entry into World War 1.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
Serf posted:not to be a dick, but modern American history probably starts sometime before our entry into World War 1. Uh I would say post World War II, or even later really. It's a nebulous term, admittedly. It definitely doesn't include the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:25
|
|
|
Now this thread is really starting to look like a thread with word "Democrats" in the title. Way to go.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:26
|
|
|
Nichael posted:Uh I would say post World War II, or even later really. It's a nebulous term, admittedly. It definitely doesn't include the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. all I'm saying is, if a person is still alive right now, they probably experienced modern American history
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:26
|
|
|
Nichael posted:Trump's stance, while practically not that different (as far as we know), is still extremely different and more hostile than past presidents to a degree I never thought we'd see. Yeah, you guys can call me naive or whatever, but I never thought we'd see discussions of loving ethnic camps in my lifetime. Even if he doesn't do the more outrageous aspects of his policy proposals, the very fact that it's discussed seriously, with merit, is a new frontier for modern America, and can lead down a lot of very dark paths. We tortured people, we all know about it, and everyone got away with it. We are already in the darkness. We have been for centuries.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:26
|
|
|
Tatum Girlparts posted:I don't think I'm being too harsh because I've literally never claimed every single Trump voter is a KKK member who went to the polls shouting MUSLIMS AND MEXICANS OUT OF AMERICA despite what some people seem to think I'm saying. If you're holding up the underlying tenets of White Nationalism as evil while twisting yourself into a pretzel to defend Islam you're basically undercutting your own argument. The problem is that both of those belief systems largely demand superiority over modern, secular, multicultural Democracies.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:27
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:If you're holding up the underlying tenets of White Nationalism as evil while twisting yourself into a pretzel to defend Islam you're basically undercutting your own argument. what on earth
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:29
|
|
|
Grondoth posted:We tortured people, we all know about it, and everyone got away with it. a bit flowery but yea pretty much. We've tortured muslims because some dude said 'uh yea I saw him at a terrorist club meeting, now give me my sweet sweet reward money'. We've sent moles into holy ground to say "BOY I SURE LOVE TERRORISM, WHO ELSE LOVES TERRORISM? YOU GUYS WANNA BOMB SOME WHITE PEOPLE?" and then when the imams don't instantly kick them out went 'SEE THE MOSQUES ARE HAVENS OF TERRORISTS'. We've elected countless people who ran on platforms of hate and bigotry to the Muslim world. There is nothing new about Trump other than he switched the dog whistle for the bullhorn and got praised for it because suddenly it meant he was 'telling it like it is'.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:30
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:If you're holding up the underlying tenets of White Nationalism as evil while twisting yourself into a pretzel to defend Islam you're basically undercutting your own argument. The problem is that both of those belief systems largely demand superiority over modern, secular, multicultural Democracies. new phone who dis posted:Maybe people got tired of the double standard of government officials running sanctuary cities in violation of federal law while simultaneously putting people in jail for not issuing marriage licenses or refusing to bake a cake. I will agree with you that calling Mexicans rapists and scapegoating Muslims is a bad thing, but outright refusing to enforce federal law to pad your voting rolls seems like a pretty lovely thing to do if you want to use the law as a cudgel at the same time. Tatum Girlparts posted:a bit flowery but yea pretty much. We've tortured muslims because some dude said 'uh yea I saw him at a terrorist club meeting, now give me my sweet sweet reward money'. We've sent moles into holy ground to say "BOY I SURE LOVE TERRORISM, WHO ELSE LOVES TERRORISM? YOU GUYS WANNA BOMB SOME WHITE PEOPLE?" and then when the imams don't instantly kick them out went 'SEE THE MOSQUES ARE HAVENS OF TERRORISTS'. We've elected countless people who ran on platforms of hate and bigotry to the Muslim world. There is nothing new about Trump other than he switched the dog whistle for the bullhorn and got praised for it because suddenly it meant he was 'telling it like it is'.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:31
|
|
|
Tatum Girlparts posted:a bit flowery but yea pretty much. We've tortured muslims because some dude said 'uh yea I saw him at a terrorist club meeting, now give me my sweet sweet reward money'. We've sent moles into holy ground to say "BOY I SURE LOVE TERRORISM, WHO ELSE LOVES TERRORISM? YOU GUYS WANNA BOMB SOME WHITE PEOPLE?" and then when the imams don't instantly kick them out went 'SEE THE MOSQUES ARE HAVENS OF TERRORISTS'. We've elected countless people who ran on platforms of hate and bigotry to the Muslim world. There is nothing new about Trump other than he switched the dog whistle for the bullhorn and got praised for it because suddenly it meant he was 'telling it like it is'. We drone striked a guy and his buddies because he was "around" the height of Osama bin Laden.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:31
|
|
|
Concerned Citizen posted:what on earth If your belief system prioritizes your own sub-group over the rest of the population it's bad, no matter what the motivations are.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:32
|
|
|
Nichael posted:Are you saying that undocumented people are kept around to pad voting rolls? Because you know they can't vote right? And they don't? actually I believe you'll find that president Trumps said they do, and therefore that makes it fact
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 23:27 |
|
|
new phone who dis posted:If your belief system prioritizes your own sub-group over the rest of the population it's bad, no matter what the motivations are. except no one is asking for priority over anyone else, only equality?
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 20:33
|
|