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KakerMix posted:Maybe you can crack open the mod have have to go through the tunnels again Those tunnels freaked me out so hard when I first did the mod, I was running as fast as I could just to get away from the wailing noise, never mind the hurty ghost. Never play Clockwork at 1 am in the morning, is what I'm saying.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:28
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Amppelix posted:You will get approached in a random location by some cultist goons who will proceed to attack you and leave behind a note which starts the questline. I thought it was level-based but if you're already that far in and haven't started it it must have to do with the main quest. Nah I got attacked with the note already. Haven't followed up with it, thought it was a vanilla quest.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:31
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wiegieman posted:You're clicking "download with manager", right? It's not intercepting the file, it's intercepting the link type. You can probably uninstall MO then NMM, then reinstall NMM to get the association set correctly again. Yep, was clicking that button. I did that and now my computer fails to recognize nxm addresses, despite having NMM as .nxm's default program. 
Forsythia fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 20:35
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Gyre posted:Those tunnels freaked me out so hard when I first did the mod, I was running as fast as I could just to get away from the wailing noise, never mind the hurty ghost. Man I know it, at the end there it became too much and I also ran and then thought to myself 'this is exactly what my character would be doing right now' Killer immersion and lots of neato spooks happening in Clockwork. I loved that they explained the reason why that noise was a thing too.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:41
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TipsyMcStagger posted:How do you start dragonborn btw? Edit... Too slow.
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Dec 9, 2016 00:17
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Waah, apparently the destruction skill affects some enchantments (potency/cost?), and not just the obviously elemental ones. Is this still true w/ SPERG? (Academic because I am a God among men (and dragons) regardless, but I'm curious.)
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Dec 9, 2016 01:40
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Wow, I almost can't believe I just beat the civil war questline. I think I correctly received and completed a quest without any bugs occurring once. How is it such a buggy mess??? My favourite part of that whole ordeal was definitely when, after once again not getting my orders from Rikke and trying out all the methods listed on uesp to no avail, I stumbled across somebody on steam saying they fast traveled a bunch of times in a row and it worked. I thought, there's no way in hell that's gonna do anything if waiting 30 days or loving with Rikke with the console doesn't work, but hey, let's do it anyway. And what do you know, somehow fast traveling to the camp from the camp repeatedly made the proper flags trigger! God damnit, Skyrim.
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Dec 9, 2016 03:04
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The civil war questline just pisses me off for so many reasons and bugginess isn't even one of them. NONE OF IT MAKES ANY TALOSDAMNED SENSE.
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Dec 9, 2016 04:16
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Amppelix posted:Wow, I almost can't believe I just beat the civil war questline. I think I correctly received and completed a quest without any bugs occurring once. How is it such a buggy mess??? I got to stand in a corner outside the camp somewhere waiting out a full werewolf transformation each time, which was the only thing that consistently worked in order to receive the next quest from Rikke. The whole questline is...not great either way, but that didn't help.
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Dec 9, 2016 15:43
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Eric the Mauve posted:The civil war questline just pisses me off for so many reasons and bugginess isn't even one of them. NONE OF IT MAKES ANY TALOSDAMNED SENSE. I just went through it and it's a terrible questline. Attacking Whiterun as the Stormcloaks is fun but there's no substance afterward, no feeling that it's an actual war where you have to painstakingly make progress. They honestly should have created radiant quests to push your side's control of a hold to build up for the big main quest in each hold. Another thing that really annoys me is that you should be able to get more done by virtue of being Dragonborn, especially once you complete the main questline. Yes, you shouldn't be able to just do everything, but your word should count for something among people. For all of Arthmoor's weirdness, the Paarthrunax Dilemma is a good mod because you actually get to use being Dragonborn to enforce something.
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Dec 9, 2016 23:14
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Do you have to do the dragonborn quests before you can join the Stormcloaks/Legion? If you can go straight to the civil war quests after escaping Helgen that would mean doing a whole second set of dialogue. I think that's the big problem with the civil war quests, after they got the Battle of Whiterun finished, they ran out of time to make anything else interesting.
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Dec 9, 2016 23:38
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The thing that bugs me about the civil war in Skyrim is that its premise was way more interesting to me than any of the dragon poo poo but was basically a really long radiant sidequest.
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Dec 9, 2016 23:49
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It's just preposterous that whichever side you take in the civil war, its leader makes the Last Goddamned Dragonborn swear an oath of obedience and then tells him to go do whatever this other person tells you to do. It's asinine and the Last Goddamned Dragonborn would never agree to such a thing. His course of action would be less "loyal subject of the Emperor just doin' work with the rest of the legionnaires" and more "yo Ulfric, you can stop your rebellion and endorse Elisif right the hell now and I promise your life will be spared, or I will kill you just the same way you killed Torygg right here, right now." I mean I know it's a video game and you have to give the player some stuff to do, but the way Bethesda went about framing it is just pants on head stupid.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:47
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Isn't there a big divide in preferred faction between people who've played TES games before and people whose first TES game was Skyrim? Like, you're thrown into the game about to be executed by "The Empire" and you learn that the native Nord people are rebelling for independence and religious freedom. If you've never played another TES game, the civil war looks at first like a basic conflict between good vs evil, at least until you get later in the game and start learning about the Stormcloaks' elf-racism and the delicate political situation with regard to the White-Gold Concordat and the Thalmor, and by that point there's a good chance the player's already picked a side.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:05
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Gyre posted:For all of Arthmoor's weirdness, the Paarthrunax Dilemma is a good mod because you actually get to use being Dragonborn to enforce something. But he's such an unrepentive rear end in a top hat that just oozes 'I don't get respect irl so I lord over people asking for help and information about mods using my uber-specific and minor e-cred to do it'. Ars Metallica, right, is a mod he's made that adds the ability to melt down things to get ingots of metals out of it. Dwarven bowls and struts and poo poo. He also decided to add perk requirements to the act of melting down things. Not iron or gold or silver though, just steel and the like. I was wondering how to make it so I don't need perks to do this since melting things in the ~my immersion~ world shouldn't require the same skills as making something out of the thing you are melting. In the comments section of his Ars Metallica mod he's just making GBS threads on people with legit criticisms and god what a loving rear end. These dudes were everywhere in the Minecraft modding community until they were pushed down because of the rise of modpacks and it makes me v. angry to see him not getting slapped around. Anyway the point is my hatred of the dude's online persona has forced me to work out how to remove his whack-rear end perk requirements from the item -> ingot recipes within SEEedit and  Pakled posted:Isn't there a big divide in preferred faction between people who've played TES games before and people whose first TES game was Skyrim? Like, you're thrown into the game about to be executed by "The Empire" and you learn that the native Nord people are rebelling for independence and religious freedom. If you've never played another TES game, the civil war looks at first like a basic conflict between good vs evil, at least until you get later in the game and start learning about the Stormcloaks' elf-racism and the delicate political situation with regard to the White-Gold Concordat and the Thalmor, and by that point there's a good chance the player's already picked a side. Playing through Skyrim now post-US election really highlights a lot of the Stormcloak politics for me, their supporters and the language that's used. Heck I bet there is a Gizmondo article waiting to be written about it! KakerMix fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Dec 10, 2016 |
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Dec 10, 2016 01:13
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I think that TES6 will show the Dragonborn siding with the Stormcloak and with the Dark Brotherhood to be canon.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:18
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Cat Mattress posted:I think that TES6 will show the Dragonborn siding with the Stormcloak and with the Dark Brotherhood to be canon. Ideally they'll treat it like Daggerfall and every possible permutation will be canon.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:42
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Cat Mattress posted:I think that TES6 will show the Dragonborn siding with the Stormcloak and with the Dark Brotherhood to be canon. I think TES6 will be set in a world wherein the Stormcloaks won, but probably the canon will be the Dragonborn just dealt with Alduin and then hosed off to chill with the Greybeards or something. Similarly the Emperor can have canonically been assassinated without the Dragonborn having to be involved.
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Dec 10, 2016 02:05
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I'm betting that the emperor's murder will have happened and the empire will have been pushed out of Skyrim. Possibly also High Rock for other reasons, putting an end to the empire as, well, an empire.
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Dec 10, 2016 02:07
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Pakled posted:Isn't there a big divide in preferred faction between people who've played TES games before and people whose first TES game was Skyrim? Like, you're thrown into the game about to be executed by "The Empire" and you learn that the native Nord people are rebelling for independence and religious freedom. If you've never played another TES game, the civil war looks at first like a basic conflict between good vs evil, at least until you get later in the game and start learning about the Stormcloaks' elf-racism and the delicate political situation with regard to the White-Gold Concordat and the Thalmor, and by that point there's a good chance the player's already picked a side. This is me IRL playing Skyrim, my first TES game, for the first time, slowly reaching the uncomfortable conclusion that "Stormcloak" and "Stormfront" don't just share a first syllable.
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Dec 10, 2016 02:34
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Also that reminds me how much it sucks that they didn't do anything interesting with the Dunmer ghetto in Windhelm.
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Dec 10, 2016 02:36
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Skyrim's writing is pretty bad, but flipping the dynamic to war first, dragons second, it might have made a better main quest.
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Dec 10, 2016 02:43
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GunnerJ posted:Also that reminds me how much it sucks that they didn't do anything interesting with the Dunmer ghetto in Windhelm. Like always, the towns are too small to do anything at all with any of them. Solitude is the bustling capital, Whiterun is a tiered mountain metropolis that the whole central plain can see. But that doesn't come across in a town with like 50 people. Novigrad, these aint.
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Dec 10, 2016 02:43
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I went Stormcloak the first time because of the intro stuff. And I never really pegged the entirety of the Stormcloaks as racists, being that they were ok with my Redguard character. You can also find random non-nord NPCs travelling to Windhelm to join up. Yeah, the citizens of Windhelm are lovely, but I didn't really see the Stormcloaks in the same light. Ulfric's also a huge jerk, but he's not the huge jerk that tried to execute me. Then they replaced Balgruuf as jarl of Whiterun with some rear end in a top hat, and that soured me on them since.
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Dec 10, 2016 02:43
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:I went Stormcloak the first time because of the intro stuff. And I never really pegged the entirety of the Stormcloaks as racists, being that they were ok with my Redguard character. You can also find random non-nord NPCs travelling to Windhelm to join up. Pretty sure it's less that the Stormcloaks are OK with your not-Nord character and more like Bethesda never wants to lock players out of anything. How can you be the Arch Mage, Dragonborn, Companions leader and thane of every hold but NOT fight for the Stormcloaks because you're a dark elf?
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Dec 10, 2016 03:11
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Ulfric fought in the Great War. The side he fought with lost and was forced to sign a humiliating peace treaty. Move forward several years and Ulfric became a populist leader who used the unrest and dissatisfaction with the established government to build a powerbase for himself. And while Ulfric is careful to avoid the topic, certain followers of his have no qualms to rant about the superiority of the blond, blue-eyed human race. I wonder that description fits a certain historical figure? I don't think Bethesda was being all that subtle about it. Orcs and Ostriches posted:I went Stormcloak the first time because of the intro stuff. I wonder if Bethesda realized that they made the Stormcloaks a bit too evil/stupid.. So they tried to balance that by introducing the uncaring Imperial officer who wanted to kill you because she felt lazy. While not realizing that players would form their opinions in the first few minutes of the game and stick with those.
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Dec 10, 2016 03:16
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Raygereio posted:Ulfric fought in the Great War. The side he fought with lost and was forced to sign a humiliating peace treaty. Move forward several years and Ulfric became a populist leader who used the unrest and dissatisfaction with the established government to build a powerbase for himself. And while Ulfric is careful to avoid the topic, certain followers of his have no qualms to rant about the superiority of the blond, blue-eyed human race. Hitler analogy becomes complicated when you find out what dirt the Thalmor have on Ulfric because I am pretty sure Hitler was not a super secret pawn of the Elders of Zion or some poo poo.
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Dec 10, 2016 03:20
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The situation of siding with the Empire (collaborationist with the fascist Thalmor whose ultimate aim is the destruction of the world) or siding with the Stormcloak (very fascist themselves) kind of reminds me of the choice people in Eastern Europe during WW2 had to do: side with the Nazis against the Soviets, or side with the Soviets against the Nazis? Both sides are awful. I've never played the Civil War questline because I can't bring myself to choose a side.
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Dec 10, 2016 03:20
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Cat Mattress posted:The situation of siding with the Empire (collaborationist with the fascist Thalmor whose ultimate aim is the destruction of the world) GunnerJ posted:Hitler analogy becomes complicated when you find out what dirt the Thalmor have on Ulfric because I am pretty sure Hitler was not a super secret pawn of the Elders of Zion or some poo poo. Though personally, I like the idea that dossier was just some Thalmor agent claiming credit for starting the Skyrim civil war. Just like the Thalmor claimed they stopped the Oblivion crisis or brought back the moons after they disappeared for a while. I'm convinced we're going to see the Thalmor claim they killed Alduin in TESVI. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Dec 10, 2016 |
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Dec 10, 2016 03:37
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Raygereio posted:I wouldn't say the Empire is collaborating with the Thalmor. The ban on Talos worship wasn't really enforced until Ulfric started making a ruckus. When the Empire left Hammerfall they left "invalids" behind who formed the core of army that drove the Thalmor out. I think the game is fairly clear about the Empire gearing up for Great War Pt2. iirc when you play the civil war from the Imperial side, they're pretty open about how they have to put up with the Thalmor's poo poo until they can pose a challenge. Raygereio posted:They don't have any dirt on him though? All I recall the dossier you find in the Thalmor embassy saying is that the Thalmor fed Ulfric some misinformation several times. Well, I guess it's less "dirt they have on him" than "facts about how they used him as a pawn" which would qualify as dirt. I don't really see it as plausibly being just some bullshit taking credit thing because it's secret info, who's the audience for that who wouldn't know better? Dunno. GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Dec 10, 2016 |
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Dec 10, 2016 03:42
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GunnerJ posted:Well, I guess it's less "dirt they have on him" than "facts about how they used him as a pawn" which would qualify as dirt. I don't really see it as plausibly being just some bullshit taking credit thing because it's secret info, who's the audience for that who wouldn't know better? Dunno. Internal politics and ladder climbing. Makes perfect sense to me that some dude in the espionage sector of the organization of highly ambitious and ruthless Fantasy Nazi Party would try to spin things to make it look like they and their team were responsible for starting a costly civil war in their enemies ranks because they hosed with the insurgent leader once to try and score some Fascist Gold Star Points with the bigwigs, when really it was just a series of coincidences that just so happened to favor the Thalmor overall.
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Dec 10, 2016 04:02
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Kerning Chameleon posted:Internal politics and ladder climbing. Makes perfect sense to me that some dude in the espionage sector of the organization of highly ambitious and ruthless Fantasy Nazi Party would try to spin things to make it look like they and their team were responsible for starting a costly civil war in their enemies ranks because they hosed with the insurgent leader once to try and score some Fascist Gold Star Points with the bigwigs, when really it was just a series of coincidences that just so happened to favor the Thalmor overall. In theory sure, but the dossier just describes it all in this matter-of-fact tone. It's not like some huge boast, it's treated as something everyone already knows. This actually got me curious so I looked it up. Thalmor Dossier: Ulfric Stormcloak posted:Status: Asset (uncooperative), Dormant, Emissary Level Approval Elenwen is the local, like, viceroy of the Thalmor so it's not like this is some rando talking poo poo, there's a paper trail leading to an important person who can confirm or deny it. It also never really comes out and personally takes credit for anything as big as starting the war. It's a reference document, not anyone's personal claim to fame.
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Dec 10, 2016 04:10
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What happens with the thalmor embassy if the stormcloaks win?
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Dec 10, 2016 04:26
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I wish the two sides had fought the war using separate and unique tactics. It's essentially the same missions on both sides and empires and insurgencies usually fight differently. It would give you a reason to have a play-though on both sides.
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Dec 10, 2016 04:42
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Darth Brooks posted:I wish the two sides had fought the war using separate and unique tactics. It's essentially the same missions on both sides and empires and insurgencies usually fight differently. It would give you a reason to have a play-though on both sides. idk if the Stormcloaks really count as an insurgency. They have the backing of actual governments with regular military forces and bases.
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Dec 10, 2016 04:55
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GunnerJ posted:idk if the Stormcloaks really count as an insurgency. They have the backing of actual governments with regular military forces and bases. They absolutely count as an insurgency. An insurgency is any independent body that seeks, as its primary goal, recognition by the populace as the legitimate government, usually by a combination of disruption, military action, covert action, and political action. If the Stormcloaks can win their military victory against the Empire, they will attain that legitimacy -- however thin it may be. Conversely, the Empire can defeat the insurgency by addressing the root causes of it (rebellious local leaders, a charismatic figurehead, and the existence of organized combat groups among them.) They are helped in this regard by not being a truly foreign power. During the time period of the game's story, the Stormcloaks are shifting from their initial political action into military action, and the Empire is responding with targeted military strikes combined with a broad campaign against the insurgency's support centers. Both powers put a great deal of effort into wooing or the local leaders or replacing them with more loyal members of the populace, since they can't really say they've won until all the Jarls are behind them. e: \/That's good to recognize, but compare them to the Communist Chinese, themselves a successful insurgency. Very similar timeline. wiegieman fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Dec 10, 2016 |
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Dec 10, 2016 05:05
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In this context though what counts is how they operate as a fighting force, and "insurgency" basically means "has to use asymmetric tactics because they don't have a conventional military backed by a strong state." They don't have to make recourse to asymmetric warfare because they already have the allegiance of like half the semi-autonomous governments of Skyrim. eta: All of this is to say that this is a revolt by the vassals of an elective feudal kingdom in a controversy over both the succession and the kingdom's subservience to a larger empire, the sort of thing where feudal armies rather than scrappy freedom fighters are the main force. This officially ends my semi-serious examination of the political and military situation of a fake fantasy kingdom. 
GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Dec 10, 2016 |
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Dec 10, 2016 05:09
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GunnerJ posted:In this context though what counts is how they operate as a fighting force, and "insurgency" basically means "has to use asymmetric tactics because they don't have a conventional military backed by a strong state." They don't have to make recourse to asymmetric warfare because they already have the allegiance of like half the semi-autonomous governments of Skyrim. All my jarls have tits
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Dec 10, 2016 05:25
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KakerMix posted:All my jarls have tits Good call.
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Dec 10, 2016 05:32
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I will contribute one bit of  to this conversation: just how many people were willing to overlook the wickedness of - and even argue in favor of - the Stormcloaks should've helped prepare me for the results of the election. 
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Dec 10, 2016 05:37
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