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For the final battle I just said gently caress it and powerleveled in a corner for like 20 turns. I think I killed the population Athel Loren a few times over in the process of abusing the rebellion system. On Very Hard having a few high level treemen combined with high powered archers seems a better combination than spending amber on dragons, hawkriders, or eagles, at least for that final battle. Ed Balls.
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Dec 9, 2016 04:07
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Anyone know exactly what the effects of the Wood Elf offices are? I hate it how CA chooses to be so obscure with this poo poo. Just tell me exactly what it does you fucks.
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Dec 9, 2016 04:08
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Some thoughts on the Welf grand campaign so far: -I really loving hate the other Wood Elf factions. You have to get into alliances with them to get their amber, but they cheerfully declare war on literally everyone around them with no provocation whatsoever, which either drags you into endless wars or makes them bitchy and possibly break the treaty since you aren't supporting them. In at least one case I've had them declare war on a faction they couldn't even loving see, only I could. --On top of that, confederating them can dump you into an amber shortage, which seems really bloody stupid. And I don't mean any possible amber units they might have in their stacks - no, since the Welf main settlement building takes amber to upgrade, if they have a lvl 5 settlement you are now -4 amber from confederating them (2 amber from the settlement, -6 from the settlement building). Campaign notes in general: -Is there a mod to put some vague limit on the absolutely ludicrous amount of magical gold and heroes the AI gets? Because this is just stupid. Knock Marienburg down to a single settlement - not even a provincial capital, but literally just a single minor settlement - peace them for a few turns, then have an ally drag me into war with them and they suddenly mug the outposts I have over there with two stacks with - aside from the 2 lords leading said stacks - 23 units, 2 captains (and I already assassinated a 3rd) and 2 wizards. And it's not like they're showing up with generic spearmen or swordsmen - no, they've somehow got 9 units of flagellants and 3 units of knights, among other stuff. I understand the AI needs assistance, but this is complete and utter bullshit. An actual human would have trouble supporting even a mostly full stack of basic troops with a single province, let alone absurd numbers of heros and actual quality troops. -I also have Miragliano, who owns their own province and nothing more, somehow sitting near one of my outposts with two full stacks - a full 40 units. Utterly goddamn insane. edit: This is on Normal difficulty, incidentally. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 04:17
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man the wood elf campaign is fuckin hard
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Dec 9, 2016 04:25
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Whew, the final battle in the mini-campaign is rough on Very Hard. It didn't help that the army I was using wasn't very good, but I eventually prevailed after a lot of trial and error. As lovely as Eternal Guard are, 4 of them holding a chokepoint with a life wizard right behind them were capable of holding off thousands of beastmen while my archers and Orion murdered everybody.
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Dec 9, 2016 04:55
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Grimgor with a limited roster ala the "Grimgor's 'ard Boyz" list from Storm of Chaos that buffs Orcs and Black Orcs even moreso, please. Borgut Facebeater as a unique sub-Warboss. http://redelf.narod.ru/w6/soc/o_grimgor_e.html
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Dec 9, 2016 04:59
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madmac posted:Some quick tests on damage spells with the new lores. I actually had really great results with the Pendulum in the final mini campaign battle. I was racking up a few dozen kills every time I cast it
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Dec 9, 2016 05:05
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Anyone play a campaign far enough to see if the Wood Elves get the Shield of Civilization buff?
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Dec 9, 2016 05:07
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Zyla posted:can someone help me better with my troop composition as greenskins, and more specifically atm, Skarsnik. Choose your main line as either night goblins or regular gobbos. Night Goblins give you fanatics, but will not last as long as regular gobbos, and since Skarsnik's abilities give regular goblins poisoned attacks, I find them to be the better choice, backed by their extra armor. 6-7 units. Have either the 8 peak loonies or the warlord's boyz for some extra melee kick if you're going with night goblins 4 units of nasty skulkers. Put them on your flanks and wheel them in once the main lines hit. These guys are your big killers, but they have no shields, so get them from the sides. 2-4 units of night goblin archers. I just find them better than regular gobbos, and again, fanatics. Add more or less depending on how many armored units you expect to go up against. 2 units of Squig hoppers. They're extremely fast and cause huge disruption when they hit. Excellent for chasing down enemies, which will happen a lot. 1 Night gobbo shaman with Itchy Nuisance and Sneaky Stabbing. 2 Rock lobbas for fire support, or a doom diver if you can swing it. 1-2 Arachnaroks in the late game just to gently caress over anything that looks at you funny. As far as other units go, it depends on what you want. I often run Krimzon Killerz in my Skarsnik stack for the horrendous things they do to low/mid tier enemy infantry, but they are slow, and cannot get vanguard deployment. GET SKARSNIK OR ANY NIGHT GOBBO WARBOSS'S RED SKILLS WHICH RAISE MELEE AND CHARGE BONUSES. I cannot stress this enough, having +40 charge and melee makes even regular goblins loving terrifying swarmers.
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Dec 9, 2016 05:12
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Periphery posted:Anyone know exactly what the effects of the Wood Elf offices are? I hate it how CA chooses to be so obscure with this poo poo. Just tell me exactly what it does you fucks. I'm pretty sure if you hold the mouse over it tells you what they do.
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Dec 9, 2016 05:14
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CaptCommy posted:Hard to send you one if you don't have PMs. What's your email (or equivalent way of sending that won't get sniped)? pppbigppp @gmail.com Much appreciated, friend.  Well, looks like I am going for it. I don't even have a computer powerful enough to run the game at the lowest setting right now... (long story)
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Dec 9, 2016 05:25
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Trujillo posted:I'm pretty sure if you hold the mouse over it tells you what they do. Goddamn Warherd won't stop re-spawning either, its getting to be a pain.
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Dec 9, 2016 05:57
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Lord Koth posted:Campaign notes in general: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=693495451 This guy makes a bunch of mods that remove bonuses the AI gets or penalties the player gets. This one hits all the bonuses the AI gets, but as he says the AI itself is pretty bad so this may make the game too easy.
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Dec 9, 2016 06:00
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Trujillo posted:I'm pretty sure if you hold the mouse over it tells you what they do. Only for unlocked offices. The locked ones just tells you what kind of bonuses you'll get, not actual numbers. 
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Dec 9, 2016 06:19
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The Wood Elves get some *insane* Red buffs in their Lord Tree. I haven't bothered giving Durthu spells before now because I've been too busy giving my entire army +15 armor and +12 attack/defense. The garrisons you get with your outposts are interesting. I've had one fight where the autoresolve would rofl-stomp me, but I *almost* got a win against Brettonia by kiting with the hawks and then pouncing with treefolk. Sadly, I couldn't quite pull it off. Durthu seems stronger than Orion as a faction. Treekin are excellent, and I'm planning to spam them. I can live without too many waywatchers, since Deepwood Scouts seem to fulfill similar functions, and wardancers don't seem fantastic either. Dryads make pretty good line infantry once buffed.
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Dec 9, 2016 06:34
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I've spent a while in Custom Battle checking out unit matchups, and so far I'm not sure what to make of this faction. I'm very early in this analysis and by no means ready to make strong evidence-backed statements, so I'd love to hear whether people's experiences support or contradict mine. Here's what I've seen so far: For a while, Wardancers had me fooled into thinking they were a bad unit. They lose straight-up to greatswords and similar "melee expert" infantry in even numbers or even point cost, sometimes quite badly, and even struggle a little against plain old swordsmen - right up until you start hitting Shadow Coil every 30 seconds like clockwork. Turns out +20 MD more than compensates for -20 MA: Coiled 'dancers will happily slug it out with the Empire's finest and break them again and again. Their high HP-per-model also synergizes well with healing effects - a Wardancer unit taking the bad end of an engagement isn't losing models so much as it's losing health on models - so toss a Life Spellsinger or Treeman Lord in there to make them much more efficient. Wildwood Rangers are consummate heavy cavalry-killers. One on one, they’ll break a unit of demigryphs at 2/3 the cost, but in larger groups at even point cost (i.e., 3 units of Rangers vs 2 units of Demigryphs), the rangers mop the floor with them. Blood Knights initially fare better thanks to Cause Fear breaking the normally rock-solid Wood Elf morale, but in the end they go down, and end up being even less cost-efficient than demigryphs. And of course they do the usual solid work on monstrous units that we've come to expect from AP polearm infantry, such that you can throw a unit of them at an Arachnarok and consider the matter handled. So far I have to agree with Kanos' statement about Wood Elf archery being oddly anemic. Glade Guard with Starfire and Hagbane arrows seem like pretty reasonable archers if you match them up appropriately, but not the devastating murdermachines we were led to expect in pre-release. As a filthy English longbow spammer in Medieval: Total War, I have to say I'm disappointed about that. Maybe I'm just spoiled by Quarrelers - dear, sweet Quarrelers. Speaking of which, Quarrelers will dunk on Starfire Glade Guard pretty hard, losing HP but few models while their bolts rip the fragile elves apart; Hagbanes fare even worse. Deepwood Archers are an improvement. Turns out Parthian shot archers with 35 speed are pretty good if you’re willing to micro them: a single unit of Deepwoods can rout almost twice its cost in Empire infantry before it runs out of ammo, provided you have room to maneuver - but that's a situation more likely in "white box" testing scenarios than actual battlefields. They still get owned in shootouts with Quarrelers, even when they start inside firing range with Swiftshiver Shards. Quite simply, elf missile units don't have enough HP per model to stand up to their dwarven counterparts: yes, the elves take a good chunk of HP off their targets, but an archer with 1% HP remaining is exactly as effective as an archer with 100%, while a dead model is useless. I’m undecided on Glade Riders. With two or more of them running rings around a cluster of infantry raining Hagbane arrows into the rear of whatever unit is exposed, they can handily rout 1-2 units of moderately armored infantry a piece. But it takes a while, and the cost in micro is probably too much to bear unless you're willing to spend half the fight paused. Hawk Riders, on the other hand, seem to be garbage through and through. Despite being 45 WS armor-piercers, they struggle to drop a single unit of swordsmen before running out of ammo. I can’t imagine what their use case is over Glade Riders.
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Dec 9, 2016 06:43
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I just play Wood Elfs like I was playing Greenskins and flood dudes in Tree Boyz and Arrer Elfs. The fact you can't build walls really makes you need a bunch of cheap-rear end armies running around patrolling your towns for beastmen and co. though. Which isn't bad, it's just a vastly different game as Wood Elfs-- you just kinda have to accept that you'll lose a whole hell of a lot of settlements.
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Dec 9, 2016 06:58
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Yeah I think the problem with Wood Elves isn't the wood elves themselves it's quarrelers/rangers. I've min/maxed for best archery possible and they're nowhere near as devastating as those units felt and they have lower speed than buffed rangers and none of the tough infantry dwarves get. I keep expecting to hit some point where I feel like my archers are murder machines and it's just not happening. I've tried Glad Guard, the Deepwood guys and Way dudes but it's just not clicking for me like Dwarves did.
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Dec 9, 2016 07:24
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Quick and possibly dumb question: if another faction's army is besieging a city, I can't do anything but wait till they attack or leave, right? I just started a new Greenskins campaign and the Red Fangs only have their capital left, but a drat stunty army marched in and started a siege right before I got there. Also: jokes posted:I just play Wood Elfs like I was playing Greenskins and flood dudes in Tree Boyz and Arrer Elfs. The fact you can't build walls really makes you need a bunch of cheap-rear end armies running around patrolling your towns for beastmen and co. though. Which isn't bad, it's just a vastly different game as Wood Elfs-- you just kinda have to accept that you'll lose a whole hell of a lot of settlements. Just got the Wood Elves DLC and am happy to know I'll be able to keep using my winning Orcish master strategy with them (buy a poo poo-ton of Boyz and just throw them down the field at the other guy).
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Dec 9, 2016 07:41
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Well, finished the grand campaign tonight. The end was... interesting. As far as I can tell they do get Shield of Civilization bonuses, as once the final invasion started it was ridiculously easy* to pull in enough amber to fully upgrade the Oak of Ages, regardless of what I'd conquered beforehand. This actually does mean that getting the campaign win is relatively quicker with Welves than with other factions, as you don't need to go worrying about mopping up some provinces in some random portion of the map. There is one final event battle to do once it's fully upgraded, and that battle was moderately difficult. You probably want either full ammunition increase skills, and/or be more focused on melee troops, as I was resorting to tossing Glade Guard into melee by the end of the battle. I could have optimized more before doing it too, I suppose. *: Assuming the main factions have done well, at least. For reference, I allied with the Empire and pulled in 13 amber off them alone. edit: One minor thing that bugs me about the faction is that they don't have followers apparently like (I believe) every other faction. Only use for the slots seems to be magic banners and the like. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 07:46
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Wardancers are pretty fantastic, but I've been using Wildwood Rangers for my anti-large needs. Should I even bother with the Asrai Spear Wardancers? Right now, I honestly think that AI Durthu is going to do most of the conquering and Amber-grabbing and I'll just be on Oak defense duty with whatever Amber he gives me. My full stack can barely take on their three stacks that spawn and I can't really afford another. I should have been more aggressive against the other elves faster, especially those Cytheral ones in the bottom right. e: vvvvv I figured that Sisters of the Thorn might be one of the "holy poo poo this unit is good" units, but they're quite disappointing. Maybe I didn't micro them well enough, but they drastically underperformed for poison, high damage, fast cav with decent melee stats and two free spells. They somehow got caught by Centigors even on skirmish mode (I figured a speed that high meant they could handle themselves in a skirmish, but apparently not) and got utterly chewed up. Wood Elves all seem to be about point-per-value without any massive game-turning endgame units. Maybe that's the Treemen or Forest Dragon, but right now, I'm not feeling it. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 08:03
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fnordcircle posted:Yeah I think the problem with Wood Elves isn't the wood elves themselves it's quarrelers/rangers. I've min/maxed for best archery possible and they're nowhere near as devastating as those units felt and they have lower speed than buffed rangers and none of the tough infantry dwarves get. I keep expecting to hit some point where I feel like my archers are murder machines and it's just not happening. The faction as a whole doesn't seem to have anything you could call a murder machine. Every other faction has a unit that you can point to and say, “This thing is good,” like demigryphs, blood knights, ironbreakers, minotaurs, etc. Something that, if you could pack a silly endgame victory-lap army full of it, would trivialize the campaign. Not so much with Athel Loren, whose very best units seem only to rise to the level of "I would field this and not expect to get steamrolled." Further tests continue to suggest that Wardancers and Wildwood Rangers are the cream of the crop, and they're not all that exciting.
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Dec 9, 2016 08:10
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Kestral posted:The faction as a whole doesn't seem to have anything you could call a murder machine. Every other faction has a unit that you can point to and say, “This thing is good,” like demigryphs, blood knights, ironbreakers, minotaurs, etc. Something that, if you could pack a silly endgame victory-lap army full of it, would trivialize the campaign. Not so much with Athel Loren, whose very best units seem only to rise to the level of "I would field this and not expect to get steamrolled." Further tests continue to suggest that Wardancers and Wildwood Rangers are the cream of the crop, and they're not all that exciting. Wild Riders are pretty amazing as shock cavalry.
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Dec 9, 2016 08:14
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I haven't actually played the campaign beyond seeing what there is on the first turn but my initial impression is that the Wood Elves have too many buildings. It's like 1 building = one unit type.
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Dec 9, 2016 08:23
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Aaaaaaaw yeah. Waywatchers are the poo poo. 
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Dec 9, 2016 09:18
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I know this is old news, but holy gently caress why is the encyclopedia so loving bad? Why can't I mouse over traits like Forest Stalker and Master Ambusher to see what they actually do? It's loving 2016 CA, and you've been making games since 2000. That's sixteen years as a professional video game developing company. This poo poo is UI 101, how the gently caress do you not know how to do this by now? I have zero experience designing UIs and I could do a better job. Holy loving poo poo fire the drooling retards you have designing this crap and hire someone who has some idea what the gently caress they are doing.
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Dec 9, 2016 09:29
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Wafflecopper posted:I know this is old news, but holy gently caress why is the encyclopedia so loving bad? Why can't I mouse over traits like Forest Stalker and Master Ambusher to see what they actually do? It's loving 2016 CA, and you've been making games since 2000. That's sixteen years as a professional video game developing company. This poo poo is UI 101, how the gently caress do you not know how to do this by now? I have zero experience designing UIs and I could do a better job. Holy loving poo poo fire the drooling retards you have designing this crap and hire someone who has some idea what the gently caress they are doing. Uh, you can? The green text at the top will give you an idea of what it does and at the bottom the circles are the actual effects and mousing over them will tell you exactly what they do. E: Oh you mean in the actual encyclopedia. Don't that poo poo - all the info you need is right there in the game screen. Funky See Funky Do fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 10:03
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Funky See Funky Do posted:E: Oh you mean in the actual encyclopedia. Don't that poo poo - all the info you need is right there in the game screen. Yeah but I'd like to know what units do before I build the building to unlock them and afaik what you're describing only works from the battle screen once I've already unlocked and recruited them. And it's still no excuse for the worthless encyclopedia, why even include it if it can't tell you what your units' abilities actually do? It'd be nice if I could compare the multiple flavours of Wood Elf archer without having to recruit one of each and go back and forth selecting each one from the battle screen. Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 10:32
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What is the best way to use flagellants? I tried putting them on the flanks but they take a cavalry charge and just get wiped out, should I put them in the middle of my melee line?
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Dec 9, 2016 10:35
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Two flagellants and two spearmen is a decent force for keeping the flanks secure. When they aren't being used as blockers they are good flankers themselves with decent speed and charge bonus.
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Dec 9, 2016 10:48
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Is the WElf minicampaign supposed to lack any chapter objectives?
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Dec 9, 2016 12:30
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Wow, Orion's really not into closing his mouth, is he?
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Dec 9, 2016 12:46
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Wafflecopper posted:Wow, Orion's really not into closing his mouth, is he? Its not as if he can breathe through his Skin!! Also yeah no, Wood Elves have a rough start but uh.. yeah so, right now im 84 turns in on the GC and my spearmen units have 72 armour, up from 40 at the start, my personal wardancers have 47 armour +20% physical resistance and their combat stats are through the goddamned roof with 76 (!) melee attack and 55 melee defence, though they are also rank 7. In other words, the Orion Wood Elves (not done Durthu yet) accumulate some insane buffs, going from being frail to quite tanky and thats OUTSIDE of forest battles, inside they get crazy things like +25% physical resistance (if you have the first tech and "shield of isha" from a branchwraith) move faster and fight even better, though ive not seen the actual stat upgrade there. Edit: oh yeah and the red skills from Orion atleast buffs everything in your army, EVERYTHING, even heroes who have their own personal skillups, that branchwraith i mentioned now has 72 armour for instance and is on its way to become a melee monster as well as a caster. Gejnor fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 13:01
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How the tits do I get enough income for a second elf stack?
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Dec 9, 2016 13:15
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Gejnor posted:Its not as if he can breathe through his Skin!! I assume you build sacrifical pits everywhere? Whats your advice for early welf GC, specifically 2 things: 1. What to do with other welfs, conquer or wait and try to confederate 2. Where to get money, trade is pitiful
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Dec 9, 2016 13:28
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What kind of outposts seem to be the best choices for the wood elves? I feel the growth isn't that great due to the majority of WE settlements being lovely outposts.
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Dec 9, 2016 13:39
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Baron Porkface posted:How the tits do I get enough income for a second elf stack? Take over all of Athel Loren, build Grapevines and Barrel Houses everywhere.
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Dec 9, 2016 13:50
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Fully buffed Tree Kin are basically a living tree fence that nothing can destroy or get past. It's amazing.
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Dec 9, 2016 13:57
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Going full elf for the Spear fight was brutal. I got a whole bunch of rangers to hold the slopes and a fuckton of waywatchers up top. 20 seconds is nowhere near enough to do anything but maybe launch an arrow of kurnous at the wall of invincible chaos spawn and my melee dudes couldn't hold their positions long enough so what I ended up doing was bury morghur under a giant pile of arrow shafts regardless of whether he had his shield up or not, I don't think it's doable without getting some form of tree duders on difficulties above normal.
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Dec 9, 2016 13:59
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Great eagles lose 1v1 to fell bats in the air... Lol
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Dec 9, 2016 14:04
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