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CainFortea posted:Shut the gently caress up and leave Daco. Stop talking about it. Just goooooooo I did my part. Sooner or later his sadbrains will post something VG won't overlook here and hopefully he eats a 100000 hour or something.
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Dec 11, 2016 13:48
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| # ? May 30, 2024 15:37 |
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WTS a cyno for 420bil space bux
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Dec 11, 2016 16:03
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j/k gently caress all of you
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Dec 11, 2016 16:04
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Rhymenoserous posted:They are already sucking eachother off here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/5hn1xu/everybody_take_a_drink_to_the_keepstar_and/  incomingIt's the endgame of EVE. Ultimately, the current state of "nomadic entities" and the now-banned casinos exhibit the same fundamental premise: you cannot lose if you cannot be attacked. Whether your ISK is generated entirely out-of-game, or whether you are an entity that has no specifically attackable holdings, you cannot lose. Some of this has been true for a while, informing third-partying as much as day-tripping for wormholers. The same held true for GSF and the CFC more generally (until it didn't anymore): as long as you are either unreachable, non-existant or too entrenched, you can act with impunity. If HK or Lazerhawks or another WH entity decides to hunt in nullsec, they don't run the risk of retaliation. No target there is going to go out of its way to somehow try to roll into HK's home or try to evict them or anything. Thus, outside of WH space, HK can only lose what they are willing to bring in the first place. Similarly, PL, NC and various lowsec entities function in much the same way. You cannot "evict" an alliance that lives out of non-conquerable or non-destructible space, so you have no way of retaliation beyond destroying what is brought to the fight. You might kill some supers or a fleet or whatnot, but that's it. The best you can hope for is that the attacker cannot be bothered to bring anything more in the future. This is very different from an entity which makes itself vulnerable (for whatever reason, be it ideology or ISK-making): If GSF decided to poo poo on somebody, there exists a specific place for retaliation -- you can go to This is perhaps the final meta-game development in EVE, one without the fatal flaw of having anything left attackable or left open for retaliation. Casinos, a "trade network" that is protected by most major groups in the respective areas, nomadic alliances and partnerships with wormholers* share one fundamental trait: they have no counterplay. You cannot "evict" a casino any more than your usual k-space or lowsec entity can "evict" a major wormhole alliance. You cannot "evict" a lowsec alliance any more than you can evict an entity held by the decidedly "neutral" third-party Chribba with cross-alliance backing. It will be interesting to see what will happen next (apart from taking apart TEST, since PL+NCDOT+EE+? seem to have started shooting some towers etc. in Vale as well), and more specifically, it will be interesting to see what the long-term plan is for Pandemic Horde. Are they going to stay "nomadic" or are they going to become a proxy sov-holder, occupying whatever space is freshly evicted? For all other entities (EE, Snuff, PM, NCDOT, PL, MC etc.), they will move on, like a locust swarm, and while you can kill what they bring, it won't really change a thing. People complained about the "blue donut" and about nullsec stagnation. In exchange, we now will get an opaque structure of neutral entities that might as well be considered NPCs (the "natural" Trade Network, which is designed to be unassailable) and a game of whack-a-sov-holder, travelling across nullsec. Instead of stagnation, sov-null is turning into musical chairs, without any sov-holding alliance in charge of the music. *: Somebody here (Landsknecht?) keeps suggesting that PL and HK are naturally completely separate entities who only share a love of goodfights, happily forgetting that Noobman literally has a Titan character in PL and is thus as well-integrated as one can be, far from an "external" contact. However, the potential riskfree nature of engagements for wormholers only holds true for engagements in k-space, not between j-space entities.
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Dec 11, 2016 17:10
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Hollow Talk posted:*: Somebody here (Landsknecht?) keeps suggesting that PL and HK are naturally completely separate entities who only share a love of goodfights, happily forgetting that Noobman literally has a Titan character in PL and is thus as well-integrated as one can be, far from an "external" contact. However, the potential riskfree nature of engagements for wormholers only holds true for engagements in k-space, not between j-space entities. They also share an IRC server, channels, whatever. Most people I know don't consider PL and HK separate. I'm pretty sure if you asked them to tell the truth they'd probably say "yeah, we're the same". Oh, and Lazerhawks is HK's NC.. And Quantum Explosion was Nulli 
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Dec 11, 2016 17:11
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Landsknecht posted:the spaceguild kismesus is in Was* in. we now running our own corp. Endie posted:Init are really good, and have been for a while. They almost always do their own thing. Init has long been one of my favorite groups in EVE because no matter who they were with, it was always a loose alliance and they did their own thing. IMO they are one of the best alliances in the game ATM. lucifirius posted:I think NC/PL needs to be the next target. This has been said for years.
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Dec 11, 2016 18:38
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Orange Red Bull posted:looks manually generated You honestly think that they managed to manually generate *that* in a matter of two or three minutes? Whether it was generated by the usual code or not, no way was it *manual".
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Dec 11, 2016 18:44
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https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie/status/807971339286020098
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Dec 11, 2016 19:36
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The problem of nomadic entities being unable to lose isn't nessesarily a problem, it's the fact CCP cannot balance the game in a way that makes it so holding or putting assets up for contest is worth it.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:07
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"Eve is real. Hold this hat while I continue to inhale my own farts. I made this happen, all me."
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Dec 11, 2016 20:14
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i like how everyone in this thread is hurf durfing on dogpiling plnc and plnc being unable to lose; b-r was only 2 yrs ago? everyone dogpiled on plnc and they lost v0v
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Dec 11, 2016 20:17
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Nowadays you lose because you hit jump instead of bridge. In B-R you had to make a decision between bringing in the hammer and risking your fleet or get your assets locked into a station you no longer have access to. Is this even possible with Citadels, asset safety and so on? You lose the Citadel but all your assets are safely teleported away. You can lose when you gently caress up and get cocky, but not because anyone forces you into a fight.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:35
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Landsknecht posted:i like how everyone in this thread is hurf durfing on dogpiling plnc and plnc being unable to lose; b-r was only 2 yrs ago? everyone dogpiled on plnc and they lost I mean being unable to lose is relative to the amount of ISK and assets they have. I think the general consensus is that they may lose battles and sov, etc, but you can't do a "killing blow" to them because they have so much ISK. So how do you dogpile a plnc if they dont care about any sov you take from them and will just move to another area. Lets say the dogpile group follows them around eve as they move and deploy, move and deploy. They will love the content of farming the dogpile, or they just go AFK until everyone gets bored. So i think most leaders just look at it as a waste of time. 1001 Arabian dicks posted:The problem of nomadic entities being unable to lose isn't nessesarily a problem, it's the fact CCP cannot balance the game in a way that makes it so holding or putting assets up for contest is worth it. The only way to "win" is to successfully defend your area from their attack so they can't progress, get bored, and leave. Circle of Test held for 6 weeks which was drat impressive. The ideal time to dog pile them would have been in the defense of tribute so they lose an offensive war and go away. To your point, though, currently being the target of a nomadic deployment means a loss of all your assets pretty much. Unless you have enough friends to hold. justsharkbait fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Dec 11, 2016 |
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Dec 11, 2016 20:45
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1001 Arabian dicks posted:The problem of nomadic entities being unable to lose isn't nessesarily a problem, it's the fact CCP cannot balance the game in a way that makes it so holding or putting assets up for contest is worth it. So instead of holding Delve, building masses of supercaps, mining and ratting huge amounts and so on you reckon that Goons would be better off as itinerant npc sov dwellers?
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Dec 11, 2016 20:49
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eve without the classic nullsec rivalries over sov sounds boring as hell to me. does anyone really care about "lowsec with bubbles" fightclubs and gudfights?
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Dec 11, 2016 21:15
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nex posted:eve without the classic nullsec rivalries over sov sounds boring as hell to me. for the line members of most alliances they do care about the good fights and such. But so many high level FCs and Alliance Leadership don't, or get side tracked by money.
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Dec 11, 2016 21:18
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Endie posted:So instead of holding Delve, building masses of supercaps, mining and ratting huge amounts and so on you reckon that Goons would be better off as itinerant npc sov dwellers? no because they don't have the talent nor the type of players to roleplay pl likewise many elite pvp alliances died after trying to hold sov and get rich
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Dec 11, 2016 21:26
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Rhymenoserous posted:or we can take everyone triggered by this, punt them into their own corp and eject it to TEST. Did someone say "cultural honeypot"? Blazing Zero posted:i dont know if you know this, but the husky is a regal large breed who can rip an intruder's intestines out easily Do you train it to attack before or after you swing your Hanzo steel? Re: Capitals Online I wonder if CCP should just do away with insurance entirely for capitals. It would nerf dread bombs, but would also nerf FAX blobs. It just seems silly that large sets of capital ships are mostly an up-front investment. Innominate had a good post a few pages back around the original logarithmic progression of ship cost and ship power. I think the logarithmic progression of cost/ability is one of EVE's best design elements, and it's a shame the designers in recent years think entirely linearly. Logarithmic cost/ability makes for genuinely interesting risk-reward scenarios. "Hmm, I could increase my DPS by another 2%, but that increases my total exposure by 20%...". Re: CCP Sale Chat A $900B valuation is hilarious, but typical of venture capitalists. "I put $30M in last year, but it's totally worth 30x that now because we made so many technological advances." Still, if they get bought, who would do the best job keeping EVE alive and interesting? Orange Red Bull posted:a 3000 nerd blob will kill anything who knew No no no. It's totally the fleet comp, see. (TBF, a Cruise Phoon fleet sounds fun.) Discussion Quorum posted:My alt email addresses all follow the same format (myemail+eveX@) and for some reason their verification system doesn't like the number 3 Change the email address for that account?  Landsknecht posted:hell yeah man, it's great to have spacefriends Quoting for posterity. Re: PL Turning On Their Allies It took us years to finally say "enough" (and I'm not sure some of our leaders really have), so I'm not sure why we're surprised everyone is lining up to provide PL with super-cap staging next door. The ironic thing is that if they really just wanted a trade network, they'd stick with Fortizars and 10ly distances Landsknecht posted:i like how everyone in this thread is hurf durfing on dogpiling plnc and plnc being unable to lose; b-r was only 2 yrs ago? everyone dogpiled on plnc and they lost They didn't lose B-R because they got out-blobbed. They lost B-R because they made bad tactical choices while Laz made good tactical choices. It was a near-run thing for a while, and the outcome was not certain until several hours in.
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Dec 11, 2016 21:37
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Endie posted:So instead of holding Delve, building masses of supercaps, mining and ratting huge amounts and so on you reckon that Goons would be better off as itinerant npc sov dwellers? If we were able to make the transition (which we are not), it would certainly be more assured long term. Do you think GSF would survive a second Casino War / WWB2 and loss of space? I think that would be the point of mass exodus and quitting. But we can't because GF has always been based around the weekend warrior: guys who join fleets and want to win, but don't live for pvp. PL has the bulk of the players who can do the PL lifestyle already, and there's not enough of those around for a second power alliance in the same mold. (As shown repeatedly by groups like BL, Tishu, etc.) You were the guy who wrote a big idea blog about a sov system where a small group with a hundred or two players could hold off a PL or GSF.
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Dec 11, 2016 21:44
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Landsknecht posted:i like how everyone in this thread is hurf durfing on dogpiling plnc and plnc being unable to lose; b-r was only 2 yrs ago? everyone dogpiled on plnc and they lost That's not what happened at all though? PL could have won that fight but Manny decided to waste DD's early on on dreads, and then Sort's bait tanked Titan. Meanwhile Laz made the call to keep all subcap fleets out (Save those that were already in) and used mass DD's on nothing but Titans and if one was tanking he'd swap out. By the time PL realized that the only effective ship on field was Titans due to everything else glitching out we had already zonked enough that we held the advantage. Basically if Manny had picked the right targets from the start at best we'd have seen a bloody stalemate or a loss, not the win we got. N3 likes to scream and sob about how we were technically the blob but between PL/NC./Nulli and all the pets they had available they could absolutely pull similar numbers to us, and their clubbing solar to death every 6 months with all their combined might is just cherry on the "Shut up you giant hypocrites" sundae. Rhymenoserous fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Dec 11, 2016 |
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Dec 11, 2016 21:46
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Rhymenoserous posted:That's not what happened at all though? PL could have won that fight but Manny decided to waste DD's early on on dreads, and then Sort's bait tanked Titan. Meanwhile Laz made the call to keep all subcap fleets out (Save those that were already in) and used mass DD's on nothing but Titans and if one was tanking he'd swap out. By the time PL realized that the only effective ship on field was Titans due to everything else glitching out we had already zonked enough that we held the advantage. Basically if Manny had picked the right targets from the start at best we'd have seen a bloody stalemate or a loss, not the win we got. Someone post The Mittani's comment after that fight that was just an emptyquote from the the Nulli/NC./PL FC at the time.
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Dec 11, 2016 21:54
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Klyith posted:If we were able to make the transition (which we are not), it would certainly be more assured long term. Do you think GSF would survive a second Casino War / WWB2 and loss of space? I think that would be the point of mass exodus and quitting. Yeah, but it was *furiously* unpopular! I do think GSF would survive a second WWB, though. Test has had plenty of downs (hoho) as well as ups, but they've recovered. GSF would shrink again - to a greater extent, I grant you - then grow again via the current, very successful open recruitment route when they had space again. I say that assuming (fairly safely, I would suggest) that this isn't based on the assumption that it happens soon. Two collapses separated by months would hurt, yeah. And I agree with you that while there *are* people who could very happily survive as NPC-dwellers, or in the old, 2010 Aryth plan as NPC-dwellers who project into sov on an opportunistic basis, they are probably mainly in amok, sundering, some of waffe and so forth. The bulk would not enjoy it and it would be a bad choice. They're probably the sort of people who could just enjoy something like holesquad instead.
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Dec 11, 2016 22:03
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Endie posted:Yeah, but it was *furiously* unpopular! Fozziesov could have been that system, though it would require stronger benefits from the ADM index and longer decay under pressure. And it would need a different meta where an outclassed side could make an attacker bleed more. Wars should be for conquest or real grudge matches. Endie posted:And I agree with you that while there *are* people who could very happily survive as NPC-dwellers, or in the old, 2010 Aryth plan as NPC-dwellers who project into sov on an opportunistic basis, they are probably mainly in amok, sundering, some of waffe and so forth. The bulk would not enjoy it and it would be a bad choice. They're probably the sort of people who could just enjoy something like holesquad instead. I mean I personally like the weekend warrior model and think it's just about the strongest base for a nullsec alliance -- it's been a big part of GSF's success over the years. But it's not as strong as the PL model.
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Dec 11, 2016 22:20
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I agree with all of the weekend warrior stuff and nomadic entities etc, except for one small thing:Endie posted:So instead of holding Delve, building masses of supercaps, mining and ratting huge amounts and so on you reckon that Goons would be better off as itinerant npc sov dwellers? Realistically, it wouldn't necessarily be sole "npc sov dwellers". One potential route post-Deklein (and to a degree already with the move to Saranen) could have been a massive shift away from nullsec ISK-making to alternative means, namely missioning, incursions, FW and wormholes (via Hole Squad or otherwise), shifting large numbers of alts around. Only then would a basis have existed for a continued existence without sov while staying liquid and relevant. Just like with PL, NC. and others, GSF could never have solely sat around in lowsec, but it would have been a question of shifting people into shell alliances, ratting groups, renting arrangements etc. Ultimately, it would have meant to still produce supers, to still rat, to still produce and moon mine etc, but without doing it under one unified umbrella. Split everything up into notionally independent splinter groups and entities, and move parts of overall wealth generation away. That way, if somebody kills a ratting super, it's "Renter XYZ loses a ratting super" or "No-name ratting corp loses three carriers" etc., rather than allowing for each and every action to have a direct relationship to the big whole. If somebody in NC lost a bunch of carriers in some B0T alliance, it only meant that somebody in a renter alliance lost a bunch of carriers; in turn, if you dropped on carriers there, you only ever dropped on notionally independent entities, not "on NC". This is the same idea as the Trade Network etc. Notionally, these citadels are all independent and are certainly open for everybody. That they ultimately benefit some more than others and that they also allow to deflect responsibility and ownership is a given. Right now, it's "CO2's Keepstar dunked", which means -- for CO2 members -- that they lost the biggest thing you can lose in the game. If you externalise these things and split them up, you relinquish ownership, which means you only retain ownership in those things that you can control and choose. The same hypothetical NC carrier dude might have lost 5 carriers that week in B0T, but if he wins big with NC flying a carrier on his main, what do you think he will identify with? Ultimately, he will remain a NC member with alts, not a renter with a capital alt in NC. In turn, if somebody kills 5 moons -- whether privately held or not -- that belong to a GSF member, it's an attack "on the goonies". However, this shift didn't really happen for various reasons, partially because that's not really how GSF works. That's fine in some ways, and Delve will do wonders for mining, ratting and escalations, but the fact that there exists an identifiable home means that a nullsec-holding GSF will never be as resilient as a hypothetical "nomadic" GSF that externalises and subdivides all of its holdings into a myriad of shell alliances, corporations and generic activities via alts. Hollow Talk fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Dec 11, 2016 |
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Dec 11, 2016 22:44
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I wonder if some arbitrary minimum time in Corp or Alliance would (albeit artificially) make more consequences stick. Want to fly or fit anything T2? You need to be in a Corp. Did you just join a Corp? You're stuck with them (and they with you) for 30 days. This is probably a terrible idea with all sorts of ramifications (awoxing, etc.) but perhaps someone smarter could come up with something better.
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Dec 11, 2016 23:09
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Ynglaur posted:I wonder if some arbitrary minimum time in Corp or Alliance would (albeit artificially) make more consequences stick. Want to fly or fit anything T2? You need to be in a Corp. Did you just join a Corp? You're stuck with them (and they with you) for 30 days. This is probably a terrible idea with all sorts of ramifications (awoxing, etc.) but perhaps someone smarter could come up with something better. that's a shittier idea than this entire thread to date
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Dec 11, 2016 23:19
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Viva Miriya posted:that's a shittier idea than this entire thread to date and it's up against some pretty stiff competition, there
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Dec 11, 2016 23:26
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Ynglaur posted:I wonder if some arbitrary minimum time in Corp or Alliance would (albeit artificially) make more consequences stick. Want to fly or fit anything T2? You need to be in a Corp. Did you just join a Corp? You're stuck with them (and they with you) for 30 days. This is probably a terrible idea with all sorts of ramifications (awoxing, etc.) but perhaps someone smarter could come up with something better. 1: open door 2: walk inside 3: poo poo on the floor 4: slip on your own poo poo, faceplanting into someone else's poo poo 5: die from cerebral hemorrhaging 6: welcome to goonfleet >> 
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Dec 11, 2016 23:27
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Ynglaur posted:I wonder if some arbitrary minimum time in Corp or Alliance would (albeit artificially) make more consequences stick. Want to fly or fit anything T2? You need to be in a Corp. Did you just join a Corp? You're stuck with them (and they with you) for 30 days. This is probably a terrible idea with all sorts of ramifications (awoxing, etc.) but perhaps someone smarter could come up with something better. Sir, the question was, "Is this your handwriting?"
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Dec 12, 2016 00:04
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Wow, just realized I have played EVE for 8 months and it feels like years. As much as people talk poo poo here EVE is still fun and GSF owns pretty hard, imo. Today in a random squad roam in EUTZ there were 7 GoonWaffe in fleet, this was a first for me. It seems like a bunch of old farts are coming back. 
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Dec 12, 2016 00:30
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Every additional Planet you have sovereignty over allows your alliance to deploy another titan. Make sov required to support super cap ownership.make people be forced to plant the flag.
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Dec 12, 2016 00:36
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nex posted:there were 7 GoonWaffe in fleet 
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Dec 12, 2016 00:37
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Endie posted:You honestly think that they managed to manually generate *that* in a matter of two or three minutes? whoa endie relax its just a killmail buddy i know killmails are life in the legion but 
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Dec 12, 2016 00:43
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mfw looking at fleet members
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Dec 12, 2016 00:45
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iospace posted:Sir, the question was, "Is this your handwriting?" I've made some good posts on this here forum. I'm allowed to make some bad ones too.
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Dec 12, 2016 00:55
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Ynglaur posted:I've made some good posts on this here forum. eehhhhhhhh...... Ynglaur posted:I'm allowed to make some bad ones too. 
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Dec 12, 2016 02:22
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Magic Rabbit Hat posted:Someone post The Mittani's comment after that fight that was just an emptyquote from the the Nulli/NC./PL FC at the time. That would be the one by Richter Endsomethingorother. He's also the same guy who had a complete loving meltdown in coms over the cultural revolution when he was test.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:33
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https://twitter.com/Macabrevotum/status/808057704862384128
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Dec 12, 2016 02:35
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viral tech tricks.com
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Dec 12, 2016 02:52
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gently caress gigX imo
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Dec 12, 2016 04:37
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