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Pollyanna posted:So I know gun control is a huge issue that gets Republican voters to turn out in droves in opposition to it - is there a similar push from the opposite side? Are there pro-gun control voters that are as frothing at the mouth as their opposition? For like five minutes after a major shooting, maybe? I mean, I'm pretty strongly in favor of a handgun ban and disarming most police (though I accept there would be logistical concerns, particularly for the latter), but it's not like I'm going to insist anyone campaign on that. It's like even Trump wasn't dumb enough to campaign on nuking Medicare and Social Security (and smart enough to campaign on, you know, doing the opposite of those things). Only Ed would have the Balls to do such things.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:08
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Concerned Citizen posted:a modern campaign is very large with a lot of moving parts. a lot of stuff has to be done right in order to be maximally effective Just to point out because no one else seems to, Trump's campaign was 100% not that, so clearly messaging might matter if you can basically fly back home to your tower every night, constantly fire staff, genuinely not give a poo poo about ground game, and still win against a massive machine.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:14
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Democrats argument wrt guns should be silence, and if that's not tenable, universal background checks and literally that's it. If you feel strongly about gun control you should realize it's not a winner in campaigning or image, get elected on issues we can win on, and then once you've won pass common sense gun control legislation.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:15
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mugrim posted:Just to point out because no one else seems to, Trump's campaign was 100% not that, so clearly messaging might matter if you can basically fly back home to your tower every night and still win against a massive machine. Most campaigns will not be run against Evil P.T. Barnum, mind.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:17
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Ace of Baes posted:Democrats argument wrt guns should be silence, and if that's not tenable, universal background checks and literally that's it. If you feel strongly about gun control you should realize it's not a winner in campaigning or image, get elected on issues we can win on, and then once you've won pass common sense gun control legislation. uh, you can't fool people now that everyone loving knows you are all frothing at the mouth gun takers
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Dec 12, 2016 01:19
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it was only through the constitutional efforts of thousands of heroic pro gun folks that obama was barely prevented from taking everyones guns and outlawing gun ownership throughout the world and the blue helmeted UN troops marching through main street USA enforcing itnernational & maritime law
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Dec 12, 2016 01:20
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Baloogan posted:uh, you can't fool people now that everyone loving knows you are all frothing at the mouth gun takers In fairness to the Avatar of Drunken Canadian Shitpostery, we're certainly going to be called frothing-at-the-mouth gun takers regardless of the position we actually take.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:20
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fight the stigma by having all Democratic speakers appear wearing revolvers at the hip like cowboy times don't talk about why you're doing it, just do it bring back all cowboy times fashions while we're at it, but that's more of an aesthetic thing tbh
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Dec 12, 2016 01:25
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i'm not gay for guns
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Dec 12, 2016 01:28
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docbeard posted:In fairness to the Avatar of Drunken Canadian Shitpostery, we're certainly going to be called frothing-at-the-mouth gun takers regardless of the position we actually take. this cuck here just said even if yall fuckin stopped loving with guns vv Ace of Baes posted:Democrats argument wrt guns should be silence, and if that's not tenable, universal background checks and literally that's it. If you feel strongly about gun control you should realize it's not a winner in campaigning or image, get elected on issues we can win on, and then once you've won pass common sense gun control legislation. it would be a RUSE and yall would be frothy gun takin IRL secretly you guys have that insidious evil poo poo in your DNA and everyone loving knows it
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Dec 12, 2016 01:28
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Nancy Pelosi should carry around a big ol hunting knife at all times imo bring back swords while we're at it
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Dec 12, 2016 01:30
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etalian posted:The contrast is great, while Bernie is trying to rally people like some sort of socialist gandalf, Hillary is holding apology brunches with her millionaire donors. to brunch
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Dec 12, 2016 01:31
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also no sane leftist should be in favor of gun control in a capitalist state
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Dec 12, 2016 01:32
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I can't make up my mind if Hillary Brunch Song or DNC Fight song is more cringe worthy
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Dec 12, 2016 01:33
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I love that in the very serious DNC reform thread we keep going back to guns as if we'll ever win any votes from the people who's side literally send out fliers saying 'OK SURE GUNS DIDN'T COME UP AT ALL THIS TERM BUT THAT'S JUST A PLOY TO GET YOU TO BE OFF GUARD WHEN THEY TAKE YOUR GUNS NEXT TIME' and who constantly use the very idea of Democrats winning elections to drive gun sales. Like, this isn't an actual issue for them, it's profits, these people only give a poo poo about guns because it makes them money. This isn't a culture clash it's an industry fighting any possible damage to it by saying 'we just have to accept a poo poo ton of shootings as reality'.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:39
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The billionaire class kill more americans each year through things such as rip off medicine prices or not paying a living wage. Things like gun control are just hang-ups bad dems use to distract people from the more critical issues.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:41
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or maybe you can think more than one thing is a problem.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:44
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in any case, gun control is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outta your loving grasp now lamo, trump gonna get 2-3 supremes go after poo poo you can protect like murdering children
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Dec 12, 2016 01:44
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mandatory guns for every property owning male
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Dec 12, 2016 01:45
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Tatum Girlparts posted:or maybe you can think more than one thing is a problem. You can think something is a problem while putting it on the back burner until you can actually do something about it, Clinton supporters should be all too familiar with this concept.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:45
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I love that in the very serious DNC reform thread we keep going back to guns as if we'll ever win any votes from the people who's side literally send out fliers saying 'OK SURE GUNS DIDN'T COME UP AT ALL THIS TERM BUT THAT'S JUST A PLOY TO GET YOU TO BE OFF GUARD WHEN THEY TAKE YOUR GUNS NEXT TIME' and who constantly use the very idea of Democrats winning elections to drive gun sales. Like, this isn't an actual issue for them, it's profits, these people only give a poo poo about guns because it makes them money. This isn't a culture clash it's an industry fighting any possible damage to it by saying 'we just have to accept a poo poo ton of shootings as reality'. we fix the shootings by giving people adequate psychological and social support. gun control is a losing fight considering we'd need a constitutional amendment at this point but if you really really really want gun control tatum, you don't need president hillary for that. just go organize a couple of big open-carry rallies with some socialists or black panthers and the republicans will be howling for gun control in no time
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Dec 12, 2016 01:46
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Imagine a future where Democrats win a wave election with gun control as a major platform plank.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:46
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Baloogan posted:trump gonna get 2-3 supremes Man, I just recalled the joy I and others shared when Antonin Scalia died earlier this year. 2016 truly has found a way to turn everything good to ashes.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:47
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Heaven Spacey posted:Man, I just recalled the joy I and others shared when Antonin Scalia died earlier this year. 2016 truly has found a way to turn everything good to ashes. bowie tried to warn us all with his dying breath
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Dec 12, 2016 01:50
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Serf posted:fight the stigma by having all Democratic speakers appear wearing revolvers at the hip like cowboy times I too have been watching Westworld
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Dec 12, 2016 01:51
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with his loss only vermin supreme stands as a surviving great shaman of the human tribe to administer the vibrations of north america i fear the alt-right will shatter his staff and take his true name in the days to come
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Dec 12, 2016 01:52
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loquacius posted:I too have been watching Westworld my obsession with cowboy times goes back to when I was a kid and I first watched Bonanza and for real anybody who doesn't want a gun after we just elected a homegrown fascist has got their head real far in the sand
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Dec 12, 2016 01:55
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I want body armour
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Dec 12, 2016 01:56
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Serf posted:my obsession with cowboy times goes back to when I was a kid and I first watched Bonanza hell naw if it comes to that I'm running away usin my j-pass to get into israel free  (ok not really, fleeing to amsterdam would probably be plan A)
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Dec 12, 2016 01:57
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going forward i think arming and training the poor should be a priority
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Dec 12, 2016 02:00
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Grondoth posted:I want body armour pff, body armor it's killdozer time bby
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Dec 12, 2016 02:02
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ain't nobody leaving once the Trumpenreich gets into full swing unless you count the trains to Mexico. of course nobody ever asks why they never actually go past Texas
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Dec 12, 2016 02:05
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I love that in the very serious DNC reform thread we keep going back to guns as if we'll ever win any votes from the people who's side literally send out fliers saying 'OK SURE GUNS DIDN'T COME UP AT ALL THIS TERM BUT THAT'S JUST A PLOY TO GET YOU TO BE OFF GUARD WHEN THEY TAKE YOUR GUNS NEXT TIME' and who constantly use the very idea of Democrats winning elections to drive gun sales. Like, this isn't an actual issue for them, it's profits, these people only give a poo poo about guns because it makes them money. This isn't a culture clash it's an industry fighting any possible damage to it by saying 'we just have to accept a poo poo ton of shootings as reality'. The reason it didn't come up was because the Republicans controlled congress and killed off any legislative action, this is like complaining about Planned Parenthood warning you about the dangers of Republicans taking control of a state that had formerly had a Democratic majority. It's in the platform, and the priorities and ultimate aim of the people who are driving the party's policy are well known. It's a wildly disingenuous talking point that immediately undermines your credibility with anyone who has even passing familiarity with the issue and is not already sympathetic to what your "health of the mother"-style "virtuous lie" is trying to accomplish. There was a point in time during the mid-late 2000's when the Democrats had been somewhat successful at separating themselves from the "gun grabber" image by not talking about it, but any good they did there was undone by the legislative proposals and statements made by principal democratic figures in response to various mass-shooting incidents. It's also 100% a culture clash, for all of its many, many flaws the NRA only gets between about 9-14% of it's money from industry sources rather than member dues/contributions/merchandise/royalties/etc., and most of the non-NRA gun rights organizations are similarly member-driven (usually by people who think the NRA are wishy-washy sellouts). e: I mean hell, the only time the congressional Democrats showed an ounce of spine or tried to directly sell an issue to the public during the last few years was when they did a sit-in to protest the government's inability to arbitrarily deny/seize people's guns if the government decided it had unchallengeable secret evidence you were a terrorist. Did they do this for healthcare, income inequality, jobs, or education? No, and that should tell you a lot about the actual priorities and values of Democratic legislators. LGD has issued a correction as of 02:19 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 02:06
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hell, even marx thought that the working class ought to be armed, and that any attempt to disarm them should be frustrated, and by force if necessary.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:10
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loquacius posted:I too have been watching Westworld It's a big fat mess and none of the characters are remotely likeable.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:10
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:hell, even marx thought that the working class ought to be armed, and that any attempt to disarm them should be frustrated, and by force if necessary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6Ex2rVOUWs
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Dec 12, 2016 02:11
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Joementum posted:I think you might have missed the point of socialism. you can't bring socialism to the masses if you can't get elected in the first place
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Dec 12, 2016 02:13
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Nerses IV posted:What happens if Hillary had gone "Okay we're throwing out the NFA and all that poo poo, but now you need to apply for a license in order to own firearms" based on statistics showing a moderate decline in gun violence in permit-to-own systems honestly a real effort at increasing regulations on ownership while removing other restrictions (even something as simple and harmless as reopening registration for certain categories of automatic weapons e.g. that Sturmgewehr or MP-40 granddad brought home from the ETO) would be taken by most gun owners who aren't already rabidly partisan as a sign of at least a pretense at good faith Vincent Van Goatse has issued a correction as of 02:18 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 02:16
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If the Democrats were willing to shed their antigun desires they could get a permanent majority and save way more lives every year through good policy than are lost exclusively due to guns. But they wont. Instead they are at best going to pretend not to be antigun, but even refuse to do that in a convincing way, and then they are going to get mad when the average person successfully calls them on their transparent deceits and refuse to budge... or they will succeed in getting elected and then implement their stupid bullshit anyway and cement even harder in peoples minds that democrats cant be trusted on the issue
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Dec 12, 2016 02:17
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GlyphGryph posted:If the Democrats were willing to shed their antigun desires they could get a permanent majority and save way more lives every year through good policy than are lost exclusively due to guns. there are countries with lax gun control laws that don't have tons of murder. while i agree w/ strong gun regulation, educating and feeding people will... probably reduce gun deaths anyway. guns are part of the constitution so its gonna be way harder to get rid of them, why bother right now.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:19
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