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Haier posted:http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/thrustcycle-self-balancing-gyrocycle/ The angle on the windshield looks perfect for action movie style decapitation. Feature or bug?
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Dec 11, 2016 18:12
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Outrail posted:The angle on the windshield looks perfect for action movie style decapitation. Feature or bug? I'm thinking it would look more like a kid driving his Power Wheels under a patio table.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:55
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courtesy of the D&D thread Trump Suggests Using Bedrock China Policy as Bargaining Chip quote:WASHINGTON — President-elect Donald J. Trump, defending his recent phone call with Taiwan’s president, asserted in an interview broadcast on Sunday that the United States was not bound by the One China policy, the 44-year diplomatic understanding that underpins America’s relationship with its biggest rival.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:20
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Haier posted:IMO, Communism caused this problem the way it is because once it started fading and the money started coming in, people realized they could own houses, cars, big bank accounts, get trophy wives or sugar daddy husbands, and have their kids work their asses off to pay for their parents retirement. It's a combo of filial piety and super-materialism that the giant void of rationed "workers paradise" of suck Mao caused. China values money, brands, and stuff since they went decades without good everything. It's basically an entire country that reflects that kid at school that grew up really poor and dirty and everyone made fun of him, and now he has a decent job but a big chip on his shoulder and he tries to make up for it by being a dickhead and driving the latest BMW without wearing a seat belt. Deffo better than the idea that them abandoning God made them into semi-human barbarians, which has hitherto been my fav
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Dec 12, 2016 03:41
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somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but afaik China has never had a sense of 'civic virtue' comparable to what we have developed from the greeks in the west, even before communism chinese history and development is pretty fun, it's just too bad nobody aside from super weirdo sinophiles cares about anything pre qing dynasty.
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Dec 12, 2016 03:51
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Invisible Handjob posted:somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but afaik China has never had a sense of 'civic virtue' comparable to what we have developed from the greeks in the west, even before communism Everyone has their own theory as to why China "fell behind" and usually cite one or two specific things, but the more likely explanation IMO is just that China wasn't actually as advanced as everyone thinks it was even during highlights like the Ming and Song. Seems more reasonable than "this is the one weird trick, discovered by a white guy, to dominating the tides of history"
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Dec 12, 2016 04:08
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Deceitful Penguin posted:That is one of the most hilarious "explanations" for the moral vacuum in Chinese culture being caused by communism. http://i.imgur.com/TRBrC7r.gifv
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Dec 12, 2016 04:37
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Fojar38 posted:Everyone has their own theory as to why China "fell behind" and usually cite one or two specific things, but the more likely explanation IMO is just that China wasn't actually as advanced as everyone thinks it was even during highlights like the Ming and Song. Seems more reasonable than "this is the one weird trick, discovered by a white guy, to dominating the tides of history" I like to think that it was just a really long string of really short-sighted and narcissistic leaders that imposed a ton of really stupid rules on their society. "We have compasses, and gunpowder. . . let's just stop all further development on them and keep them around as trinkets and showpieces. I don't really see how the up-front costs to really refine them could ever be useful. Hey Long Dong, stop fooling around with that math and design crap. I don't want you wasting paper on that voodoo. You should be using it to further develop and expand our already hideously bloated bureaucracy. Hey! Li! Stop drawing anatomy stuff on that paper, what are we ever going to do with. . . wait, I think we can make Lemonade with this. . . if you really piss someone off, we could use your drawings to make some sort of "Ultimate Punishment", you've already recorded how you cut up that corpse, let's put it to use. Ok, now remember, we're going to ban all contact with outsiders, we don't need any of this "exchanging ideas" crap going on. I don't like it. I think the best thing to do is to maintain and expand the wall, and just sit behind it and forget anything exists outside of it. Also, everyone needs to remember that lies and mistakes don't exist, it's really lame to point them out, so just pretend that it never happens and everything will be cool."
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Dec 12, 2016 04:41
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Invisible Handjob posted:somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but afaik China has never had a sense of 'civic virtue' comparable to what we have developed from the greeks in the west, even before communism Haier posted:It works for me. What's your big smarmy condescending explanation? There's some good theories about why China ~Fell behind~ but most of the good ones share the fact that they're complex, attribute it to multiple things working together and are almost wholly unprovable. Then there's also looking at it the other way around; that it's not that China developed slowly, but that the west did so unusually quickly, which is also a factor in some of those earlier theories.
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Dec 12, 2016 04:56
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Invisible Handjob posted:courtesy of the D&D thread Was that a threat? I sounds like a threat.
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Dec 12, 2016 05:00
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Blistex posted:I like to think that it was just a really long string of really short-sighted and narcissistic leaders that imposed a ton of really stupid rules on their society. "If you're doing a good job and the guy next to you is doing the same job but really poorly, and you both still get paid the same, then what's the point of doing anything well at all or taking pride in your work? You're just over-working yourself compared to the other guy, so just relax and cut as many, or more, corners than he is and everything will be fine."
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Dec 12, 2016 05:04
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Fojar38 posted:Everyone has their own theory as to why China "fell behind" and usually cite one or two specific things, but the more likely explanation IMO is just that China wasn't actually as advanced as everyone thinks it was even during highlights like the Ming and Song. Seems more reasonable than "this is the one weird trick, discovered by a white guy, to dominating the tides of history" this is a kinda lovely thing to think without backing up your assertion and makes you just come off like a contrarian jackass. obviously a 1:1 reading of the historical chinese accounts like we often get isn't accurate either, but there is more than ample evidence that the chinese kicked poo poo up at least until the mongol conquests. reading history or the "accomplishments" of civilizations as a linear thing with progress on the one side and barbarism on the other is also outmoded as hell.
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Dec 12, 2016 05:06
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Koramei posted:reading history or the "accomplishments" of civilizations as a linear thing with progress on the one side and barbarism on the other is also outmoded as hell. This is the whole idea behind "China used to be awesome and then it wasn't and Europe came and beat it up" though. I agree that it's a nonsensical reading of history and probably why nobody can give a coherent answer to "why did China fall behind"; it's because the question is inherently flawed and history is too chaotic and filled with pure chance for there to be any Jared Diamond-esque grand unifying historical theory. Of course this doesn't stop people applying this linear "Sid Meier" view of history to China and ascribing China as being destined to rule the world because it's finally "catching up."
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Dec 12, 2016 05:11
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China will never win a cultural victory, they destroyed too many of their Great Works a few turns ago and they waited too long to switch to external trade routes.
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Dec 12, 2016 05:20
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IMO China was probably always highly materialistic. Its materialism now isn't something that happened to China, it's something that was always there and comes pumping out of the nation by default when nothing holds it back. You can talk about Confucianism or whatever you want but that's just icing on the Chinese cake (that has since washed away). In a similar way talking about Thais do this or that because of Buddhism is very strange, usually they do what they do because of more ancient animist habits and community structures and usually when Buddhism is brought up it's an accidental accord with this deeper underlying way of things. Anyway, the batter that makes the cake in China just seems to have a huge dose of materialism thrown in.
raton fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 05:25
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Then there's also looking at it the other way around; that it's not that China developed slowly, but that the west did so unusually quickly, which is also a factor in some of those earlier theories. I agree that it's much more useful to look at Europe. Slow (to us) development was the norm most places in most of history. Europe changed things by inventing science, which gave them a huge advantage and caused technological progress to just explode like crazy and give them the ability to dominate the world. The other factor IMO is competition. China was the big kid on the block and had no real competitors in its sphere. After the Romans there was never really one European power able to dominate the continent for any extended period of time and that pushed and prevented the kind of complacency that sets in when you have no real peers. But I think inventing science was the big one.
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Dec 12, 2016 05:45
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Grand Fromage posted:] what does this even mean
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Dec 12, 2016 05:55
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aren't you some kind of historian or history nerd how could u write such a dumb thing
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Dec 12, 2016 05:57
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Modest Mao posted:what does this even mean I think he means the scientific method, being logical about poo poo rather than just accepting the world for what it is.
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Dec 12, 2016 06:11
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Lol, he's back.
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Dec 12, 2016 06:12
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Fojar38 posted:This is the whole idea behind "China used to be awesome and then it wasn't and Europe came and beat it up" though. I agree that it's a nonsensical reading of history and probably why nobody can give a coherent answer to "why did China fall behind"; it's because the question is inherently flawed and history is too chaotic and filled with pure chance for there to be any Jared Diamond-esque grand unifying historical theory. The mongols gutting both the Chinese and Muslim civilizations right in the middle of their golden ages but not Europe probably had a pretty big impact.
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Dec 12, 2016 06:12
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Hmm, no I'm pretty sure it's the European invention of logic that did the business.
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Dec 12, 2016 06:13
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MagicBoots posted:The mongols gutting both the Chinese and Muslim civilizations right in the middle of their golden ages but not Europe probably had a pretty big impact. and the europeans being handed 2 whole continents for free. it's kinda silly to boil down "why europe leapt ahead" to just a couple of reasons, as far as i'm aware this has been kind of the constant question for historians for the past several decades and there's really no consensus to it yet
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Dec 12, 2016 06:16
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Stringent posted:Hmm, no I'm pretty sure it's the European invention of logic that did the business. did you know China didn't have logic AT ALL
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Dec 12, 2016 06:23
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN93Jz7N4Xw
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Dec 12, 2016 06:24
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Okay the motorcycle guys did a video on drug abuse in China. The South African guy has some seriously idiotic opions on drugs and some strange misconceptions about how drug use is handled in the United States: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsxVGO87H-g He seems to be under the impression that America "coddles" drug addicts because he heard a radio advertisement to get help for drug addiction. He mentions news broadcasts in China where they show police doing drug raids (as if that doesn't happen in America ten times more). His friend thinks life in America is "comfy." Well, maybe it is for HIM. God, these people are so loving stupid.
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Dec 12, 2016 06:24
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Away all Goats posted:did you know China didn't have logic AT ALL there's deep and really interesting differences between the fundamental philosophies of the greek influenced "west" (which includes the 'middle east' lol) and "east" (which usually doesn't include India because those dudes had their own poo poo that I have not studied at all), where the starting points are usually comparisons between Plato and Confucius, as the sorta 'prime thinkers' that shaped most of the schools of thought that follow Koramei posted:and the europeans being handed 2 whole continents for free. It can still be a fun academic exercise though and if I had to bet some rambos, my money is on the lack of widespread literacy combined with a system of education that focused on the classics a bit too much over the physical sciences (the opposite of today, heh)
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Dec 12, 2016 07:57
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Deceitful Penguin posted:That is one of the most hilarious "explanations" for the moral vacuum in Chinese culture being caused by communism. So do you have an actual rebuttal based on sociological and cultural factors or did you just want to get in a snipe in defense of maoism
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Dec 12, 2016 08:17
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Phlegmish posted:So do you have an actual rebuttal based on sociological and cultural factors or did you just want to get in a snipe in defense of maoism Now, what happens if you just jettison all of that? Under Deng Xiaoping, you have the gradual but very definite erosion of these values, finally ending in their complete abandonment. We learn about cats and how glorious it is to be rich, as capitalism provides us with a way to fulfill our material needs that is arguably better than the old one. But Capitalism doesn't address this moral vacuum left behind by Communism, because unlike it, Capitalism is a purely economic political system; it doesn't really proscribe things or define what is good or bad, only what is profitable and what is not. The CCP provides nothing to replace it. (This ties into the discussion on how they justify their right to rule btw) Some people think this is why religions are once again proliferating, especially the underground churches but also some Buddhist/Confucian revivals (The latter are particularly interesting as a way of trying to adapt their way to a more modern setting) but there are other, possible explanations for that as well. That's why I thought it was hilarious to blame Communism for the current state of China, when it is much more accurate to say that it's the wholesale adoption of Capitalism shorn of any shred of morals that explains the situation much better.
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Dec 12, 2016 08:30
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Dec 12, 2016 08:38
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The issue is EXTREMELY complex, but the consensus is that there are a whole host of factors that lead to this constellation of "poo poo". We can vaguely summarize by saying that China was never good
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Dec 12, 2016 08:38
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It doesn't help that most modern sources on Chinese history go back to Joseph Needham who was an unapologetic sinophile (although ironically eurocentric) and also a communist who spent a lot of time hanging out with the CCP in the 50's and most claims of "China invented X" can be traced back to that even when the actual evidence cited by Needham is spurious as gently caress I'm pretty sure I've complained about this itt before and since his work is also probably why "Why did China fall behind" gained notoriety when it did I genuinely wonder if aside from the problems with the question itself the main problem is that ancient China wasn't actually as awesome as Needham and his handful of colleagues thought and that we've been drastically overestimating the scale and level of Chinese scientific and technological achievement as a result Lots of his sources were semi-obscure religious texts for example that he would then interpret literally Fojar38 fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 08:45
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Fojar when did you study China/East Asian studies exactly Because Needham is more of a historical curiosity these days than someone being taught in real universities afaik
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Dec 12, 2016 08:49
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Fojar when did you study China/East Asian studies exactly A few years back in university. My professor liked Mao a lot lol Needham is still cited for almost every claim ever about China inventing poo poo Fojar38 fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 08:53
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nickmeister posted:Okay the motorcycle guys did a video on drug abuse in China. The South African guy has some seriously idiotic opions on drugs and some strange misconceptions about how drug use is handled in the United States: South Africans having terrible opinions? You don't say...
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Dec 12, 2016 08:54
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Deceitful Penguin posted:The common explanation is that prior to the opening, Maoism did provide a moral and ethical system for people; that the basis for the state was the betterment of the whole and the benefit of its citizens through cooperation, building a socialist state, all that jazz. I could go through their moral/ethical system at length but I'm guessing you are at least somewhat familiar with their ethos. But the highly patrimonial bureaucracy that Maoism built didn't focus on the betterment of the whole, it was constitutionally incapable of doing so! You're asserting that Maoism gave China a solid moral and ethical system in practice and not just in theory, which I find kind of questionable.
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Dec 12, 2016 09:00
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Pirate Radar posted:But the highly patrimonial bureaucracy that Maoism built didn't focus on the betterment of the whole, it was constitutionally incapable of doing so! You're asserting that Maoism gave China a solid moral and ethical system in practice and not just in theory, which I find kind of questionable. an ideology based on hate and resentment is still an ideology I think is what he's saying
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Dec 12, 2016 09:01
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my ideology is pro plungingSheep-Goats posted:In a similar way talking about Thais do this or that because of Buddhism is very strange, usually they do what they do because of more ancient animist habits lol anime is japanese you butt hole
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Dec 12, 2016 09:29
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I think one of the things that they never let develop or had even now was some sort of social contract. It has always been one form of strongman or another where it was "You follow leader or I cut you". It just didn't matter what was the source of that "power" was it just goes "Leader Leader!". They just couldn't culturally move beyond that. It didn't help intellectuals keep becoming dog food repeatedly even now. In western systems the social contract means you look after us and we look after you. Most of the time when this broke down riots happen, heads roll, but they don't burn down the system only to reinstitute the same thing with different people they made improvements. Europe had leaders willing to give out power or step down for the greater good like the Magna Carter. Also see Taiwan when it moved from a Dictatorship to a Democracy. When European countries went to war with each other they generally didn't try to genocide the culture intentionally like China did repeatedly in order to maintain control, burn down libraries, kill everyone in the last administration. Burning down libraries isn't good for science. China lacking a social contract means the government is only beholden to itself. Brute force is used often, plenty of secret police, direct media control. The growing economy is really the only ties anybody together. Calls for justice and reform are unheard with Rule By Law instead of Rule Of Law. It's attempts at "Integration" are open warfare on the other culture; See HK, Western territories, Mandarin. Overt anti-intellectualism is on the rise again with more "Party loyalty" creeping in again and big science with no real results or no goals other that propaganda. China now isn't really different than it was 150 or 300 years ago. In "a Civilisation" term they haven't really moved past despotism.
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Dec 12, 2016 09:41
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i cant believe Two Worlds had the gall to come in here ant tell me to shut up because i was talking about chinese food like that's the worst thing to ever happen to me in my posting career, it is now i who has been "left behind"
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Dec 12, 2016 10:03
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