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Fojar38 posted:Great way to become an international pariah. China still has some plausible deniability regarding North Korea but the Washington security establishment would turn on them hard if it looked like they were trying to proliferate nukes in the middle east. Europe would too. Hell, Russia might too. What is washington security establishment and how much per pound do they do for in 2017?
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Dec 12, 2016 16:33
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If there were an actual government that weren't inept buffoons in favor of independence in Taiwan then I am sure China would be much more worried. They are more like out democrats, screwing the pooch even when things look good, than a real democratic independence threat.
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Dec 12, 2016 16:33
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I'd argue that the most powerful nation in the world can't be an international pariah by definition. By being the most powerful nation, your influence is so great that you can't really be ignored or pushed aside.
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Dec 12, 2016 16:41
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Fojar38 posted:Good to see we can all look forward to 4 years of "my batshit theories and beliefs have been validated because people thought Donald Trump wouldn't be President." Good to see we can look forward to your inane drivel on global politics based on things you read online and barely understood.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:10
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Judakel posted:Good to see we can look forward to your inane drivel on global politics based on things you read online and barely understood. You and Fojar just need to hurry up and gently caress already, I can't stand the sexual tension building up in this thread.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:11
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Franks Happy Place posted:I love goons writing off invading Taiwan as a slam dunk despite the PLA's total lack of a navy and the fact that Taiwan is one of the most heavily fortified islands in history. Bombs will do.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:11
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whatever7 posted:What is washington security establishment and how much per pound do they do for in 2017? Not to get all up in your business, but for some reason I have a vague feeling you are the only actual mainland Chinese person here. It makes your perspective a lot more interesting, but it's been so many years on these stupid forums I don't know if I'm crazy and remembering wrong or not. If you aren't then disregard.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:15
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Mozi posted:My basic beef with all of this is that we need cooperation with China on two issues that are actually critical right now (climate change and North Korea) so picking a fight over Taiwan is going to make sure that those things absolutely cannot happen, regardless of the extent to which the Taiwan issue escalates. I doubt this incoming administration gives two shits about climate change. Nothing they've done so far indicates that they do.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:16
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Judakel posted:I doubt this incoming administration gives two shits about climate change. Nothing they've done so far indicates that they do. Well, yeah. The idiocy compounds on itself. When some climate catastrophe happens, likely within five years, it will be too late to do anything. So I guess by that logic, sure, let's have a war with China, why not.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:20
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Invisible Handjob posted:Not to get all up in your business, but for some reason I have a vague feeling you are the only actual mainland Chinese person here. It makes your perspective a lot more interesting, but it's been so many years on these stupid forums I don't know if I'm crazy and remembering wrong or not. If you aren't then disregard. I am in NY but I grew up in China and would probably take China's side in a world war. Matter of fact I just mailed out my wife's naturalization form for her today. I really don't come in this thread anymore because there are other Eng forums on the web that let me fulfill my armchair strategist fantasy.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:25
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whatever7 posted:I am in NY but I grew up in China and would probably take China's side in a world war. Matter of fact I just mailed out my wife's naturalization form for her today. I don't blame you. Grats on your wife's naturalization. Sorry for the callout, it's just been bugging me for a while and I couldn't remember if you were or not.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:26
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whatever7 posted:I am in NY but I grew up in China and would probably take China's side in a world war. Not that I think the US is good at all, but why?
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Dec 12, 2016 19:31
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angel opportunity posted:Not that I think the US is good at all, but why? Ah poo poo I'm sorry whatever7
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Dec 12, 2016 19:37
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HOW DARE I ask a question!!!
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Dec 12, 2016 19:38
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Mozi posted:Well, yeah. The idiocy compounds on itself. Don't let your propensity for strawmen get in the way of the fact that climate change will not be one of the issues that makes the Trump administration reconsider its nonsense attitude towards diplomacy.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:40
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Strawman, meet thyself? I didn't say anything about the Trump administration reconsidering anything. I was merely making a point about the depths of idiocy on display.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:47
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whatever7 posted:I am in NY but I grew up in China and would probably take China's side in a world war. . oh boy here we go
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Dec 12, 2016 19:57
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angel opportunity posted:HOW DARE I ask a question!!! No that's cool, it's not your fault, just you won't be the only one asking when he probably just wanted to chill incognito in the thread. My bad for the rude call out.
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Dec 12, 2016 20:09
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whatever7 posted:I am in NY but I grew up in China and would probably take China's side in a world war. Matter of fact I just mailed out my wife's naturalization form for her today. Noted.
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Dec 12, 2016 20:12
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angel opportunity posted:Not that I think the US is good at all, but why? I haven't thought about it that much. I think Chinese who understand Chinese writing/literature and Chinese American whose native language is English have fundamental different world views in many different areas. My cousin who was in China until 5-6th grade; and my younger cousin who was in kindergarden when he came to New York. I can see this split between them.
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Dec 12, 2016 20:12
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whatever7 posted:I haven't thought about it that much. interesting, honestly thank you for sharing
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Dec 12, 2016 20:21
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whatever7 posted:I haven't thought about it that much. Can you elaborate more on that?
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Dec 12, 2016 21:08
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Fojar38 posted:Great way to become an international pariah. China still has some plausible deniability regarding North Korea but the Washington security establishment would turn on them hard if it looked like they were trying to proliferate nukes in the middle east. Europe would too. Hell, Russia might too. "Yeah, China may do [thing bad for US interests], but actually that will *furious hand waving* PLAY RIGHT INTO THE AMERICA'S HANDS" -Fojar38's one argument for everything
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Dec 12, 2016 22:39
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Vladimir Putin posted:Can you elaborate more on that? I can't sum it up in a short paragraph. I will just say acknowledging a strong cultural pull exist entirely outside of the US social sphere that resonate with your core value as strong as the American identity. I have multiple people in my family who worked in Chinese language schools (private ones, not Confucius Institute ). IMO the effect is comparable to Jewish language schools.
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Dec 12, 2016 22:40
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It honestly just sounds like you are talking about encultured values being the deciding factor.
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Dec 12, 2016 22:44
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Chomskyan posted:"Yeah, China may do [thing bad for US interests], but actually that will *furious hand waving* PLAY RIGHT INTO THE AMERICA'S HANDS" Invading Taiwan would be a lot worse for Chinese interests than for the American though? They would in fact become an international pariah, such an invasion would be bloody as hell. There's really not a lot Chna could do if Taiwan declared independence beyond blockade that wouldn't be extremely costly to them. Taiwan existed for a long time without substantial trade with China, it can do it again. Whether the Taiwanese public wants that is a different story, but not much is unilateral on China's part icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 22:45
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Dec 12, 2016 23:03
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Chomskyan posted:"Yeah, China may do [thing bad for US interests], but actually that will *furious hand waving* PLAY RIGHT INTO THE AMERICA'S HANDS" China's hand is so weak that even if they overtly do things against US interests it would still end up in self-ownage. But okay, explain to me how you think that China giving Iran or North Korea weapons would play on the international stage Forums Poster Chomskyan. Explain in detail the enormous foreign policy coup that it would entail for China. whatever7 posted:What is washington security establishment and how much per pound do they do for in 2017? A fair amount actually; lots of Trump's security advisors are part of the security establishment and it looks like those that won't toe the line are going to be blocked by the Senate.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:43
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sincx posted:Tsai's approval rating is already only at 40%. Xi can simply cut trade with Taiwan (28% of Taiwan's exports are to the mainland), watch unemployment soar in the ROC (the PRC will be affected too, but much less so), and wait for the KMT to be voted back in. I have serious doubts about this theory, in large part because I think such an overt act by the mainland, with the explicit purpose of manipulating Taiwanese politics, would cause a backlash that would cause Tsai's support to rally. We actually have a historical example of this, when China's escalations during the Third Strait Crisis raised Lee's approval ratings by 5%. More to the point, having the KMT or DPP in power really doesn't make much difference to China's interests, because the Taiwanese public isn't about to accept reunification. Ma was about the most pro-Beijing recent president, and he lost. The mainland won't change the public's perception by bullying them.
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Dec 13, 2016 00:12
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whatever7 posted:I can't sum it up in a short paragraph. I will just say acknowledging a strong cultural pull exist entirely outside of the US social sphere that resonate with your core value as strong as the American identity. Do you feel this is this is a different view in regards to the narrative around blood ties to the mainland? Being born with Chinese blood parents gives you particular privileges, and you're automatically considered Chinese if one of your parents is Chinese, no matter where, or what cultural conditions, national identity or core values you may hold. Indeed, the PRC is insisting that blood ties are the important ties, when determining nationality and travelling in respects to Canadian citizenship for example.
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Dec 13, 2016 00:17
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I can't speak for anyone else, but in my experience anyone who grew up in China is considered Chinese for ever, even if they gently caress off and never come back. This is a cultural condition distinct from citizenship and race, and is not inherited. I don't think political status and personal values come into play at all. There is no shortage of people who despise the political establishment but still consider themselves Chinese.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:04
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maybe if america treated asian americans better people like whatever7 would be on this side instead of the other side
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Dec 13, 2016 01:16
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New-worlders often have a hard time with the concept of blood citizenship. It's a very different concept toward citizenship in general.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:17
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Peven Stan posted:maybe if america treated asian americans better people like whatever7 would be on this side instead of the other side Well, there's a distinction to be made between Asian-X born in X and first-generation immigrants. I don't think there's any force in the world that would cause my parents to be on "this side" rather than "the other side". 國內 means China and 國外 means everywhere else, and that's that. For later generations, I think the situation is analogous to other peoples of recent immigrant descent who find themselves politically marginalized.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:31
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Redmark posted:Well, there's a distinction to be made between Asian-X born in X and first-generation immigrants. I don't think there's any force in the world that would cause my parents to be on "this side" rather than "the other side". 國內 means China and 國外 means everywhere else, and that's that. Are your parents from Taiwan? Just guessing since you use traditional characters. I agree with this though and your other post. Being 'Chinese' is a lot more than just nationality. It's actually a massive pain in the rear end to renounce your Chinese citizenship too, which as Trammel posted is required to do at least as a Canadian citizen if you don't want China to automatically recognize you as Chinese when you go back home to visit.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:42
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Trammel posted:Do you feel this is this is a different view in regards to the narrative around blood ties to the mainland? Being born with Chinese blood parents gives you particular privileges, and you're automatically considered Chinese if one of your parents is Chinese, no matter where, or what cultural conditions, national identity or core values you may hold. I am not aware of any mainland rooted American Chinese who brag about his tie with mainland. I don't think its a thing. I know a few Hong Kongers who were very smug about being from Hong Kong, but that was at least 10 years ago. IMO the language/writing itself is the strongest "blood tie". As a 2nd gen Chinese, you can't just have simple conversational Chinese with your parents. You have to learn a bit of the writing, speak in Chinese with your friends or watch a tons of Chinese language tv shows to develop an identity different from the mainstream American identity.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:44
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Invisible Handjob posted:Are your parents from Taiwan? Just guessing since you use traditional characters. I uh... actually I just used http://www.pinyinput.com/ and forgot to check simp/trad  I'm from Tianjin, but I can mostly read traditional and on a small font it all kind of blends together.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:46
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Invisible Handjob fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Dec 13, 2016 02:04
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I'm more like 1.5th gen I guess. Half my life in China, half in Canada. I wouldn't say that I support China unconditionally, but I really feel that if somehow a shooting war breaks out China won't be the initiator. As far as tensions go I think it all depends on what happens with the current political hot topics. Trump says he's going to make America great again, and the primary bearers of that burden seems to be Mexicans and Muslims at the moment. If one deports the Mexicans and detains the Muslims, and America is not made great again... well, it's not a far stretch to guess at what comes next. But I'm not convinced that Trump actually sincerely gives a gently caress, so none of this may come to bear.
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Dec 13, 2016 02:34
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Invisible Handjob fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Dec 13, 2016 02:45
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