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Bold Robot posted:This worked, thanks. It is reliable too, I always use it to vassal feed these days.
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Dec 14, 2016 15:42
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Fister Roboto posted:I think the major downside for taking Admin as the Ottos is that it's eventually overkill thanks to admin efficiency. At ADM 23 you'll hit the coring cost reduction cap of 10%. At ADM 27 the bonus from Admin ideas becomes useless. I am even using your "gently caress buildings - hire more mercs" method and it is working well. Each of my armies has 4 std Infantry and 12 merc infantry - I dont lose manpower pretty much ever (I imagine I will in hellwars in Europe one day, or if I dive into India head first). I rarely have a huge surplus but when I do I build a few buildings here and there where they will help the most.
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Dec 14, 2016 15:58
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I am even using your "gently caress buildings - hire more mercs" method and it is working well. Each of my armies has 4 std Infantry and 12 merc infantry - I'd like to see the present merc system go away and maybe make ai countries more willing to rent condottieri.
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Dec 14, 2016 16:27
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Fintilgin posted:I'd like to see the present merc system go away and maybe make ai countries more willing to rent condottieri.
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Dec 14, 2016 16:37
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Does anyone know how poison increased coring cost gets removed? I am playing a game in India right now and I noticed that Gujarat popped out of Mewar, all of Gujarat's provinces did have the plus coring cost when Mewar had them, but now they don't. Did they get released in war or something, does that remove the coring cost? I posted earlier that I inherited Delhi's march when their last province defected to my vassal, and not only that I inherited their negative modifiers with the march, like forced religion. If anyone has any info about that, maybe it's always worked that way. I just haven't seen it before.
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Dec 14, 2016 18:06
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Tsyni posted:Does anyone know how poison increased coring cost gets removed? I am playing a game in India right now and I noticed that Gujarat popped out of Mewar, all of Gujarat's provinces did have the plus coring cost when Mewar had them, but now they don't. Did they get released in war or something, does that remove the coring cost? If Mewar lost their cores on those provinces then the +coring cost modfier goes away. That is, as far as I know, the only way that will happen.
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Dec 14, 2016 18:08
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I think the present merc system is hilariously a-historical (I love reading up on history but I am no expert so I could just be full of poo poo) so any change to it would be cool in my book. I just take advantage of as it is it because it works. I actually wonder if removing/modding out the preset merc system would cripple the AI. I sort of suspect they might be dependent on being able to pull infinite mercs out of their rear end.
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Dec 14, 2016 18:16
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MrBling posted:If Mewar lost their cores on those provinces then the +coring cost modfier goes away. That is, as far as I know, the only way that will happen. Duh, of course. Makes perfect sense, ok, thank you.
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Dec 14, 2016 18:17
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Fintilgin posted:I actually wonder if removing/modding out the preset merc system would cripple the AI. I sort of suspect they might be dependent on being able to pull infinite mercs out of their rear end.
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Dec 14, 2016 18:28
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I think the present merc system is hilariously a-historical (I love reading up on history but I am no expert so I could just be full of poo poo) so any change to it would be cool in my book. How so? Most of the armies (in Europe) were mercenaries, often not tied to a single state, until well into the later parts of the game. I agree they're borderline ruining the game since their overhaul though, and people have been complaining about that on the Paradox forums for months so I reckon the devs are planning on fixing that.
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Dec 14, 2016 18:50
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Mercs coming out of an infinite manpower pool is a little weird
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Dec 14, 2016 18:53
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Yeah that's true. I like them being in the game though.
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Dec 14, 2016 18:54
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Koramei posted:I agree they're borderline ruining the game since their overhaul though, and people have been complaining about that on the Paradox forums for months so I reckon the devs are planning on fixing that. What overhaul? I don't remember any changes other than when they made them auto-update as you tech up.
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Dec 14, 2016 18:56
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Elman posted:What overhaul? I don't remember any changes other than when they made them auto-update as you tech up. They also added a mercenary force limit and removed the limit on how many mercs you can recruit at a time.
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Dec 14, 2016 18:59
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Koramei posted:How so? Most of the armies (in Europe) were mercenaries, often not tied to a single state, until well into the later parts of the game.
It is just really janky to me. Its an archaic system and because they are infinite it negatively affects how the game plays. PleasingFungus posted:They also added a mercenary force limit and removed the limit on how many mercs you can recruit at a time. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 19:01
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early on in my eu4 playtime i was fighting korea as burgundy and after stomping their main army it was like, "oh i can just get a ton of mercs from here" and it was pretty weird
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Dec 14, 2016 19:08
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:[*]The majority of the mercs hired by a state would not have sat there and waiting for an outsider army to stroll by, occupy some land, then say "sure foreigner, we will join you in fighting our brothers who did get recruited by by our lord" for the same price as that same foreigner would have paid for the equivalent amount of men recruited in their homeland. this actually did sort of happen, mercs taken prisoner in the 30YW would often end up getting recruited by the other side
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Dec 14, 2016 19:10
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Other people have said but yeah, I am not going to not take Admin in 1460 or whatever because in 1700 it becomes useless. I could drop it for another mil idea or Humanist or something useful at the time if I continue to be flush with Monarch Points when I hit ADM 23 or 27. Even in 1580 I keep having to develop because I cannot conquer land to core fast enough to spend all of my admin points. I have four armies of 16/4/8 and two navies of 20 Heavies/30 Cogs (one in the Med, one in the Indian) and at times have had two wars going against smaller targets and just cant conquer fast enough. Other times I have had to spend a few years at peace because of the nasty web of alliances in Europe + truce times, but I am about to break into the Sahel and India so I will have even more targets soon. Yeah that's what I mean by overkill. If you can't conquer fast enough, the coring cost reduction just translates to more admin development. Admin is still a top-tier idea group though, even if the coring cost reduction isn't as useful if you get constrained by other factors. If there was any other idea group I'd take in place of Admin it would be Religious for the CB, although Ottos don't really need that in the early game for all the claims they get from missions. Admin and then Religious, with Diplo or Influence and at least one military idea in between, is a pretty solid choice.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:11
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I totally agree with you about the infinite part, and if they add a cap then it'd make sense to add local pools so having a 30yw in Europe wouldn't suddenly mean you're finding yourself short of mercs in Indonesia. quote:
quote:
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Dec 14, 2016 19:12
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while we're at it how historical is it that lategame armies are composed of 50-40% artillery corps
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Dec 14, 2016 19:16
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:The Condottiere system, to my knowledge, better represents how it worked historically. As I see it, the importance of the mercenary system is that it allows you to fight considerably more wars and makes them much more expensive. Wars were, in the period, both very common and ruinously expensive, so that's very helpful for the historicity of the game. As other people noted, the mercenary system also helps the AI not fall over completely once it loses an army or two. I'd appreciate if someone explained how they're "ruining the game", as Koramei put it; I sincerely haven't noticed any major problems with them in my own play. AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I have not played the game a ton and have not gotten into many hellwars lately, but this change has had zero impact to my ability to recruit entire armies of mercs, and definitely has not stopped the AI from recruiting endless amounts (that then die, so they recruit more). Yeah, the mercenary force limit hasn't been relevant at any point since it was introduced, but people were asking for changes 
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Dec 14, 2016 19:20
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StashAugustine posted:while we're at it how historical is it that lategame armies are composed of 50-40% artillery corps with 1000 men each!
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Dec 14, 2016 19:21
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PleasingFungus posted:I'd appreciate if someone explained how they're "ruining the game", as Koramei put it; I sincerely haven't noticed any major problems with them in my own play. It turns every war into a doomwar and basically makes manpower meaningless (for the AI) since it won't hesitate to hire out endless mercenaries. "Ruining the game" was hyperbolic but it's definitely a flawed system right now.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:26
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Koramei posted:It turns every war into a doomwar and basically makes manpower meaningless (for the AI) since it won't hesitate to hire out endless mercenaries. "Ruining the game" was hyperbolic but it's definitely a flawed system right now. The reason every war is a doomwar is because the costs of a war (battles) are front-loaded and the benefits (occupation warscore) are backloaded. That strongly encourages you to fight every war to 100%. Mercenaries reduce this effect, if anything, by extending the cost of battles.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:28
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PleasingFungus posted:with 1000 men each! Those are 1000 cannons. I can just imagine the thunder as 24,000 cannons fire in unison on the Iberian plains.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:30
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That's true for the early game and when you're beating up on someone whose armies you can crush easily, but by the later game with bigger nations, when it's much harder to actually finish off the armies and so get to the occupation phase, mercenaries mean otherwise exhausted empires can and will keep chugging along indefinitely. They're also really not actually that expensive right now especially for the big guys. If that was an actual factor maybe it'd solve the issue too.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:31
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Koramei posted:No, this is pretty much how it worked actually. Nationalism in that sense hasn't been around all that long, people (especially mercenaries) weren't really that squeamish about fighting their "countrymen" in plenty of instances as long as there was pay. If there were limited pools based on the development of a state-size area, and the owner of that state did not recruit all of those mercs and I occupy land in that state, I should be able to recruit a limited number mercs from the local pool from that area. Maybe they would cost more and/or leave my employ if I all of a sudden ship them from the Baltic area to India. Koramei posted:Not really no. Mercenaries mostly weren't tied to a state. PleasingFungus posted:The condotierre system seems like it best models a few, exceptional cases, e.g. 18th-century Hesse-Kassel. As i understand it, most mercenaries (notably including the condotierres themselves) didn't fall under any sort of national control; they were non-state actors. For most of EU4's period, the closest thing to EU4's Condotierre in real life were Swiss mercenaries, but the Swiss Confederacy was not really a functioning state in the way EU4 describes it, so the relevance is perhaps limited. re: "ruining the game" - what Koramei said. Its dumb and annoying that the AI will send itself into a crazy amount of debt to try to keep fighting a hell war that it is losing badly(and each war in EU4 is a hellwar). If they did not have an infinite pool of mercenaries to pull from, they could not keep "fighting" by recruiting 5 stacks of infantry to send to their deaths against enemy doomstacks. The average Paradox poster wants the game to be easier and thus want this to go away. I do not want the game to be more easy, but I want the every-war-is-a-hell-war thing to go away and fixing mercs would go a long way towards that. This would however require updating the manpower system and other changes. edit: to keep this long post going longer, Koramei posted:They're also really not actually that expensive right now especially for the big guys. If that was an actual factor maybe it'd solve the issue too. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 19:41
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It would be a good system to rework in eu5 but changing it in eu4 would make it a significantly different game and I personally wouldn't really like that
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Dec 14, 2016 19:44
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There is a mod which make armies and wars hugely expensive. Quite fun to try out but not for any longer amount of time.
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Dec 14, 2016 20:24
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I've been looking in the wiki/ledger, but is there any list of total development for each cultural group?
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Dec 14, 2016 21:15
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Tsyni posted:I've been looking in the wiki/ledger, but is there any list of total development for each cultural group? Closest I've seen is total development of cultural groups belonging to states in your empire, which you can get by mousing over the group name in the 'promote culture' pane.
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Dec 14, 2016 21:19
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awesmoe posted:Closest I've seen is total development of cultural groups belonging to states in your empire, which you can get by mousing over the group name in the 'promote culture' pane. Yeah, there a few lists of top groups on reddit etc, found using the custom nation designer, but I don't think they are quite up to date. They gave me a rough idea though. Was debating between Hindustani versus Iranian and it looks like Iranian wins handily.
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Dec 14, 2016 21:23
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They should nuke the current system of mercs and instead have independent condottieri just like the CKII merc system. So instead of hiring infinite mercs from the Merc Zone, Europe has a dozen or two bands of roving mercs like the 'Band of the Red Hand' or the 'White Company' or whatever, and they're pre-made, just like condottieri armies, so you're hiring a 6i, 3c, 4a army for X money. So if all the Mercs get hired up in the Wars of Religion and have their manpower depleted you're own your own for a bit. Also Espionage ideas lets you unlock the ability to (maybe) bribe free companies away from your enemy based off your prestige/dip rep/mountain of cash (and the ai can do the same to you). Mercs help, but aren't always.... dependable. If you really want to get funky, each company could have their own morale/discipline rating instead of using yours, so you could literally hire elite units for ~mad cash~ or go for the cheaper ones. Current merc system sucks and they literally have the foundation for something WAY better fully functioning in game right now. EDIT: Also, this would let your hire local African/Indian mercs groups in your trade companies/colonies which would cost you less to maintain but fight more on par with the locals because they'd have the local tech group average and your cool elite euro troops would just be the support for them which would be cool. Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 21:38
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Fintilgin posted:They should nuke the current system of mercs and instead have independent condottieri just like the CKII merc system. So instead of hiring infinite mercs from the Merc Zone, Europe has a dozen or two bands of roving mercs like the 'Band of the Red Hand' or the 'White Company' or whatever, and they're pre-made, just like condottieri armies, so you're hiring a 6i, 3c, 4a army for X money. So if all the Mercs get hired up in the Wars of Religion and have their manpower depleted you're own your own for a bit.
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Dec 14, 2016 21:50
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If you have mercenaries in your army, any loot that the army takes should be penalized by the % of mercenaries that you're running in that army. The province loot bar still shrinks normally, you just get fewer of the ducats because you're running mercs
QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 21:59
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QuarkJets posted:If you have mercenaries in your army, any loot that the army takes should be penalized by the % of mercenaries that you're running in that army. The province loot bar still shrinks normally, you just get fewer of the ducats because you're running mercs That's kind of already what's happening, since you have to pay the mercs more than regular troops anyway.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:06
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:This sounds great. Could add a layer of complexity but at first glance I think it would be more fun to deal with in place of limitless merc spam. I think this is sorta what I was thinking I just didnt put it all together. It would also be fun to have a war where the "Company of the Purple Turtle" really saves your bacon and helps win your war, and a few years later France has hired them to beat the poo poo out of you. I'd be all sad I had to kill those cool dudes who helped me.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:10
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StashAugustine posted:while we're at it how historical is it that lategame armies are composed of 50-40% artillery corps Not very but Napoleon definitely would have approved.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:36
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One day I will remember during a war that the loot bar exists in every province, and make sure to loot every province that I occupy. One day.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:42
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:One day I will remember during a war that the loot bar exists in every province, and make sure to loot every province that I occupy. One day. There's a loot map mode you can use for that.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:17
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