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SousaphoneColossus posted:Maybe one small silver lining is that Clinton didn't manage to eke out a win in spite of these colossal fuckups and someone who is not directly in that campaign's orbit will learn a thing or two from this. You would think, but centrists on Twitter have doubled down on how it was all Bernie's fault that ruined Hillary and she can't fail but can only be failed YAS QUEEN SLAY. Not only that, but there's plenty of Dems who have decided that Keith Ellison is no good by association and they need to nominate someone else with better labor credentials despite his numerous endorsements, including the AFL-CIO. https://twitter.com/Gaius_Publius/status/808844510134341633 I actually like Granholm a lot, but we're going to lose again in 2020, aren't we?
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Dec 14, 2016 19:31
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I don't completely buy the narrative that Tom Perez is a Clintonite out to sabotage the Bernie wing of the party (there's another Clinton guy in the running, can't remember his name), but the degree to which some of these people blame Sanders for Clinton losing is alarming both for the sake of having a decent party and from a mental health standpoint.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:34
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To be frank constantly having to read over and over again on how evil and stupid and subhuman liberals and centrists are and how they all have to join the DSA or be shunned from everywhere because they didn't immediately weren't sold on the leftist podcast d'jour and constantly rting/quotetweeting whatever is the wacky bad liberal/centrist take of the day isn't mentally healthy either.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:54
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Coheed and Camembert posted:You would think, but centrists on Twitter have doubled down on how it was all Bernie's fault that ruined Hillary and she can't fail but can only be failed YAS QUEEN SLAY. Not only that, but there's plenty of Dems who have decided that Keith Ellison is no good by association and they need to nominate someone else with better labor credentials despite his numerous endorsements, including the AFL-CIO. at least granholm says, downthread, that everyone needs to unify behind Ellison if he wins. Also I don't think Perez is a lock just because the clinton and obama wings support him; those folks are in retreat and Ellison has a lot of big name support already
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Dec 14, 2016 19:55
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Kunster posted:To be frank constantly having to read over and over again on how evil and stupid and subhuman liberals and centrists are and how they all have to join the DSA or be shunned from everywhere because they didn't immediately weren't sold on the leftist podcast d'jour and constantly rting/quotetweeting whatever is the wacky bad liberal/centrist take of the day isn't mentally healthy either. Eh, the centrists dicked the dog this year in a big way. I'm happy to sit in a big tent with them if that leads to getting things done, even recognizing that the Left isn't going to get everything they want once/if the Dems ever retake power. That said, if they can't manage to run a winning campaign against Donald Trump, they deserve to be shunned and new blood given a chance.
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Dec 14, 2016 20:26
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Tom Perez is very good on policy. Not sure what his chops are as a political organizer. I'd prefer to see Ellison win just for the symbolic value of asserting a victory over Obama and Clinton, but a Perez win would not be worth melting down over imo.
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Dec 14, 2016 20:30
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Kunster posted:Part of it is not advertising it as "common sense" or "logical" or whatever in the first place, which Matt wisely stays away from. I couldn't think of a better term, which is why I put "common sense" in quotes, but I like his clarity and directness, and it doesn't seem like there's enough of that on the left. GalacticAcid posted:Tom Perez is very good on policy. Not sure what his chops are as a political organizer. I'd prefer to see Ellison win just for the symbolic value of asserting a victory over Obama and Clinton, but a Perez win would not be worth melting down over imo. He's more Muslim and socialist than Obama ever was. Pomplamoose fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 20:36
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I getcha Sebatoh, no worries.Walka Blocka Shame posted:Eh, the centrists dicked the dog this year in a big way. I'm happy to sit in a big tent with them if that leads to getting things done, even recognizing that the Left isn't going to get everything they want once/if the Dems ever retake power. That said, if they can't manage to run a winning campaign against Donald Trump, they deserve to be shunned and new blood given a chance. I'm aware of that, but it gets to the point even other non-Chapo-listening/non-DSA-leaning lefties are getting a similar treatment and getting pegged as "libs" for it.
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Dec 14, 2016 20:42
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Kunster posted:I getcha Sebatoh, no worries. You're not wrong of course and everyone needs to have a little grace with each other over the next few weeks/months. The Left has every right to be mad as do folks closer to the center. That said, this isn't trivial, this is probably the one chance in a generation that a voice from the left could take some modicum of control in the Democratic party. I remember thinking Obama was our chance and then being gut punched by his cabinet picks. I don't want folks to moderate their criticism only to watch the turds slide right back in. I do hope we can avoid the hero-worship cycle of Chapo though.
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Dec 14, 2016 21:01
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Sebadoh Gigante posted:I couldn't think of a better term, which is why I put "common sense" in quotes, but I like his clarity and directness, and it doesn't seem like there's enough of that on the left. lol, nice Also, in response to that disgusting Daily Kos article, consider taking a look at the UMWA's Current Legislation Guide. Call your congressperson's office and register your support for their proposed bills, and urge your senators to stand with Bob Casey over the spending bill. Think this goes especially for those of us with Democratic representatives in non-mining states.
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Dec 14, 2016 21:10
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Walka Blocka Shame posted:That said, this isn't trivial, this is probably the one chance in a generation that a voice from the left could take some modicum of control in the Democratic party. I remember thinking Obama was our chance and then being gut punched by his cabinet picks. I don't want folks to moderate their criticism only to watch the turds slide right back in. I don't think DNC leadership will be in any way affected by woke circlejerks, quotetweet ownages and account tourneys on twitter. Might as well believe in meme magic or screaming "SIR DO YOU HAVE NO DECENCY SIR" at tv. very easy to go brokebrain if you invest too much care in this poo poo, like freddie de boer
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Dec 14, 2016 21:26
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taser rates posted:Read of the day, some of the stuff in here from the HRC campaign is insane http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547 these people should legit be executed
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Dec 14, 2016 21:42
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fatherboxx posted:I don't think DNC leadership will be in any way affected by woke circlejerks, quotetweet ownages and account tourneys on twitter. Might as well believe in meme magic or screaming "SIR DO YOU HAVE NO DECENCY SIR" at tv. I'm not active on twitter and don't give a poo poo what grab-rear end goes on there so I guess I'm out of my element with this. Ultimately movements have to start somewhere, a lot of folks were laughing at the alt right/tea party and their stupid bullshit but it ultimately was successful. I think there may be some lessons to learn from them in how to enforce demands and put pressure on leadership. I guess I do believe in meme magic now, smh.
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Dec 14, 2016 21:44
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I don't know what would lead you to believe that Memes don't reflect and influence public thought
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Dec 14, 2016 22:28
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Capital M Memes
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Dec 14, 2016 22:29
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Memes as units of ideas are super useful in this era of Facebook. They're simple; repeated, and shared. Basically free advertising. Memes as images with impact font are usually stupid of course, but that goes with the territory. The left needs to seize the memes of production.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:12
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Russian revolutionaries treated slogan-development with deadly seriousness. Off the top of my head, "Peace, Land, Bread" was arrived at after considerable debate, and "Enrich Yourselves" in the NEP era provoked immense fury from what would become the Left Opposition. What I'm saying is, yes, there's a place for "memes" in political propaganda, but it has to be in the form of distilling complex policy mixes into comprehensible and attractive units.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:34
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Memes are self organizing by nature of the necessary repetitions required to become a meme. Top-down committees gave us "I'm with her." The magic of memes gave us the Bernie bird.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:39
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Man I think these genius annotations are one of my favorite new internet things, sort of MST3k for utter poo poo articles/twitter meltdowns
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Dec 14, 2016 23:47
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GalacticAcid posted:Russian revolutionaries treated slogan-development with deadly seriousness. Off the top of my head, "Peace, Land, Bread" was arrived at after considerable debate, and "Enrich Yourselves" in the NEP era provoked immense fury from what would become the Left Opposition. this is something that the wonks fundamentally misunderstand and why they end up so horribly confused that everyone hates their 1000-page policy documents
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Dec 14, 2016 23:56
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fatherboxx posted:I don't think DNC leadership will be in any way affected by woke circlejerks, quotetweet ownages and account tourneys on twitter. Might as well believe in meme magic or screaming "SIR DO YOU HAVE NO DECENCY SIR" at tv. Oh I'm aware that it won't affect DNC leadership but its just grating to watch and holy poo poo I thought I was the only one that disliked FDB. That guy along with others ran along shrieking about identity politics and more or less gave all of those "Heh, berniebroes and commies and too left for obama types JUST are secret bigots" types enough ammo for weeks, maybe months. Kunster fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 00:23
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Grondoth posted:I remember thinking during election day that there's gonna be a lot of interesting discussion about how important it was to have a ground game, since Clinton's was so good and it proved so ineffective. ADA was secretly AWESOMEO.
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Dec 15, 2016 00:27
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I have no fuckin' idea what's going on in Syria. My TL is kinda split, even people who were extremely in agreement on Palestine. Nobody likes Assad, but it's either "NATO/the CIA is financing the rebels" or "Iran and Russia are financing Assad"
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Dec 15, 2016 00:39
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Kunster posted:Oh I'm aware that it won't affect DNC leadership but its just grating to watch and holy poo poo I thought I was the only one that disliked FDB. That guy along with others ran along shrieking about identity politics and more or less gave all of those "Heh, berniebroes and commies and too left for obama types JUST are secret bigots" types enough ammo for weeks, maybe months. who cares seriously
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Dec 15, 2016 00:48
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Sushi in Yiddish posted:I have no fuckin' idea what's going on in Syria. My TL is kinda split, even people who were extremely in agreement on Palestine. Nobody likes Assad, but it's either "NATO/the CIA is financing the rebels" or "Iran and Russia are financing Assad" Same, but that's because Syria since 2011 has been complex as gently caress, everyone is financing everyone else and the large amount of ethnic and religious minorities present in the country complicates things further. For everyone who says "Assad is bad", "Russia is bad", "PissPigGranddad is cool" or "the Kurds [anything]", there's always someone else going "WELL ACTUALLY" and getting into an Internet slapfight. Even calling it a civil war is controversial, for reasons I don't entirely understand. There's not even any safe, room temperature take - "perhaps we help the refugees and people who are getting literally executed in the street" is cause for disagreement.
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Dec 15, 2016 00:49
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BBJoey posted:who cares seriously I don't think you *get* podcasts (Edited for inclusivity)
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Dec 15, 2016 00:49
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Counterpoint: Freddie is good.
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Dec 15, 2016 00:59
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Barracuda Bang! posted:I don't think you *get* podcasts i get podcasts, i don't get why we care about inconsequential twitter personalities giving other inconsequential twitter personalities fodder in their war for the hearts and minds of the lumpen twittertariat
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Dec 15, 2016 01:02
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https://twitter.com/VixMaren/status/809167739625447424
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Dec 15, 2016 01:52
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Coheed and Camembert posted:Same, but that's because Syria since 2011 has been complex as gently caress, everyone is financing everyone else and the large amount of ethnic and religious minorities present in the country complicates things further. For everyone who says "Assad is bad", "Russia is bad", "PissPigGranddad is cool" or "the Kurds [anything]", there's always someone else going "WELL ACTUALLY" and getting into an Internet slapfight. Even calling it a civil war is controversial, for reasons I don't entirely understand. There's not even any safe, room temperature take - "perhaps we help the refugees and people who are getting literally executed in the street" is cause for disagreement. PPG is great, uncontroversially.
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Dec 15, 2016 02:44
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Coheed and Camembert posted:There's not even any safe, room temperature take - "perhaps we help the refugees and people who are getting literally executed in the street" is cause for disagreement. Part of the issue is that some of people we funded to help with the humanitarian issue, the white helmets, have also been (allegedly) been committing war crimes. Which might be Russian propaganda, but who knows anymore? We are so post-truth it's paralyzing.
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Dec 15, 2016 03:39
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Sushi in Yiddish posted:Man I think these genius annotations are one of my favorite new internet things, sort of MST3k for utter poo poo articles/twitter meltdowns Hopefully this is a decade+ out of date SA reference, because if people are posting like that I want to report them post haste.
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Dec 15, 2016 04:06
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don't go to pyf
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Dec 15, 2016 04:09
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To be fair, Germany did basically say "roflmao no" to the non-aggression pact.
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Dec 15, 2016 04:14
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to be fair, shut up idiot
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Dec 15, 2016 05:06
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BBJoey posted:to be fair, shut up idiot Uh, no.
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Dec 15, 2016 05:25
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i'm a roflmaoist and i will NOT accept the erasure of my people in this thread.
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Dec 15, 2016 05:44
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That game theory twitter meltdown was one of the most GBS things I've read in ages and it's great Genius allows people to make FYAD mock threads on the fly.
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Dec 15, 2016 06:36
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I went and watched that Adam Curtis documentary like the good gray wolf I am and man was it some hot garbage. I had seen one of his earlier ones and I remembered it as being along the lines of loose change or other 9/11 truth poo poo. When I heard the Adam Curtis cold open to chapo a while back I assumed they were mocking him. And I honestly enjoy watching conspiracy poo poo going back to when i read illuminatus! back in high school. I heard the interview on chapo and he seemed like a reasonable not-crazy person. How he could have put that documentary together i do t understand.
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Dec 15, 2016 06:39
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...you realize the point was just charting the trends and policies that led to the state we're in, not that they were somehow orchestrated as part of a singular design... right?
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Dec 15, 2016 07:24
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