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Harrow posted:The whole medicine healing mechanic really killed the combat in the Ezio games for me. Not only did you end up with a huge health meter, but you could instantly restore it by taking medicine, so combat had no tension at all. It was still fun to mess around with, though. I feel like the combined health/synchronization gauge in the first game should have been expanded on. It's a neat idea and makes sense for the simulation narrative.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:00
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oddium posted:the best witcher build is the star wars kid spin in the light attack tree. also the toxicity ones so you down a bunch of buffs and get even more buffs instead of dying oddium posted:i feel like a lot of people didn't make and constantly use the super good potions, or know that meditating for an hour (like three buttons presses) will use up one of your 50 alcohols to replenish all of your potions  If you don't like look a murder mutant that is high on all the drugs and has all the veins popping out of his face, you are doing it wrong.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:02
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Palpek posted:Comically AC: Unity had many different fighting styles put into it depending on what weapon you used with varying ranges, animations etc. but...combat was still just pressing one button. It's sometimes comically weird in Assassin's Creed how they put an enormous amount of work into some system vs how much influence they actually have on the gameplay - see also bomb crafting in Revelations. I had a conversation about this in this thread a couple days ago, but I'd love an Assassin's Creed game that didn't let you be a one-man army. You can't take many hits. Carrying weapons bigger than knives or wearing armor would make noise and make it harder to be sneaky. What makes you special is your perception (Eagle Vision) and your mobility (climbing, running, jumping), and if you get caught by guards, you have to rely on those--you can't just fight off 20 guards without breaking a sweat. You have to run, maybe try to separate the guards and pick them off individually like fuckin' Predator or just find a place to hide, or lose your pursuers by taking routes they can't, climbing walls and jumping between rooftops. I'd find that a ton of fun, myself. Mak0rz posted:I feel like the combined health/synchronization gauge in the first game should have been expanded on. It's a neat idea and makes sense for the simulation narrative. Yeah, I've wanted "synchronization" to come back in the AC games for a while now. It makes sense in the simulation narrative and it lets your health not be literal. Why can your character walk off a gunshot? Because they were never actually shot, that was just you loving up and now you're not perfectly synced. Plus I liked how you lost sync by hurting civilians, because Altair didn't do that, so you're loving up the synchronization. It was a good concept.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:06
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Lurdiak posted:If I want to play as Zero I can just play the Zero games, which are much better than X4. Gah, either that's mouselook or crazy high camera sensitivity but watching those fights is almost stomach lurching. Doesn't help that I'm hungover though, I guess. Edit: Uh, now it's a different video than the one I watched. n/m! Lobok fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 22:06
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Witcher 1 had frankly horrendous combat but I liked how the potions made a huge difference, whereas in 2 they were like, pretty useful, but just fighting good and healing sometimes would get you by most situations.Lobok posted:Gah, either that's mouselook or crazy high camera sensitivity but watching those fights is almost stomach lurching. Doesn't help that I'm hungover though, I guess. I think he's trying to show off the animations best as he can, thus the crazy camera movements. But the combat in that game really is quite fun and visceral, even if it's just reskinned Batman.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:06
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Palpek posted:I loved Pan's Labyrinth the most, I should rewatch it. For some reason I was convinced that was a children's movie the first time I saw it, and I kept feeling weirder and weirder about it until the scene with the bottle being smashed into a guy's face, paused it, took a moment to recover, and then continued, now aware of what kind of movie I was watching.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:07
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Bicyclops posted:For some reason I was convinced that was a children's movie the first time I saw it, and I kept feeling weirder and weirder about it until the scene with the bottle being smashed into a guy's face, paused it, took a moment to recover, and then continued, now aware of what kind of movie I was watching. It's certainly structured like a children's fairy tale movie where the princess escapes her crappy life into a wonderful imaginary world, just that the real world is full of violent nazis instead of rude stepmothers, and the fantasy world is equally dark and violent. I think my favorite scene in that movie is when the nazi stitches his own loving face back together. He's a completely despicable character throughout the film, and yet they constantly humanize him, to remind you that he is indeed a man who does monstrous things, not a simple monster.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:09
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wizard on a water slide posted:Witcher 3 and GTA 5 if you didn't already play it last gen are great games and worth the money
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Dec 14, 2016 22:25
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Palpek posted:Comically AC: Unity had many different fighting styles put into it depending on what weapon you used with varying ranges, animations etc. but...combat was still just pressing one button. It's sometimes comically weird in Assassin's Creed how they put an enormous amount of work into some system vs how much influence they actually have on the gameplay - see also bomb crafting in Revelations. This is probably a result of having a game that is made by like twenty different sub-teams across multiple studios.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:27
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Red Bones posted:This is probably a result of having a game that is made by like twenty different sub-teams across multiple studios. Also a result of being ordered to make the same game for the third time in a row and running out of good ideas.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:29
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Final Fantasy XV talk for a change. I'm going through Google Translate to see the customer reviews in Japan. Are they happy about the new game? Well, uh...Final Fantasy XV review snippets posted:I like games. I've been enjoying the game as my favorite pastime for over 20 years.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:30
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Rexroom posted:Final Fantasy XV talk for a change. I'm going through Google Translate to see the customer reviews in Japan. Are they happy about the new game? Well, uh... Pretty much every big-name release gets Amazon reviewbombed these days unless it's a huge unqualified success (and sometimes even then.)
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Dec 14, 2016 22:31
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At a certain point, ubisoft decided that "batman combat" just meant a bunch of enemies attack you and when you press a button you dodge their attack and auto-kill them. They completely missed that part of the reason the batman games have great combat is because it encourages you to mix in your gadgets and different techniques to look cool and score well. Sleepy dogs got the closest in terms of depth and made up the gap by making the combat absolutely brutal.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:32
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The combat in the Batman Arkham games is better than AC, but I wouldn't call it great.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:38
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:The combat in the Batman Arkham games is better than AC, but I wouldn't call it great. Well I would  I spent many hours with the nightwing challenge rooms in arkham city. I always wished nightwing had gotten some more love, I thought he had the most fun combat by far.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:41
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I need to fix my good ol' reliable Dreamcast
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Dec 14, 2016 22:51
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I liked it in Arkham Asylum/City but i think the Batman combat was kinda bloated by Arkham Knight where you have like 20 gadgets and 15 enemy types that you each have to fight in a very specific way
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Dec 14, 2016 22:52
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I'm not sure that I've ever seen anything even nearing consensus on a a game that has good combat, like I'm legit not sure I've ever seen a thread for a game where there were not more complaints about the combat than compliments.
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Dec 14, 2016 22:57
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(Which is not to say that all these complaints, here, aren't totally legit, it's just interesting.)
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Dec 14, 2016 22:57
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Bicyclops posted:I'm not sure that I've ever seen anything even nearing consensus on a a game that has good combat, like I'm legit not sure I've ever seen a thread for a game where there were not more complaints about the combat than compliments. That is because there is no such thing as objectively perfect game design because every combat system has different goals. Batman, for example, is designed to simple, accessible and function on a rhythm and self-challenge atmosphere. Winning combat isn't the goal, winning the combat while never breaking your flow for bonus EXP/maximum score is. In comparison something like a Devil May Cry is designed to challenge you and THEN encourage you to self-improvement once you can handle the initial challenge. There are games like Dark Souls where winning through any means necessary is the only real goal and you're encouraged to be dirty, cheap and effective more than anything. All are completely legitimate gameplay design elements which focus on different types of players. A game being hard is both a strength and a flaw. A game being easy is both a strength and a flaw. It depends on the person you're talking about and the best you can do in terms of objective discussion is to discuss how it succeeds/fails at its goals.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:00
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It's more than just "there's no consensus," though, like every single game has more critics than supporters specifically when it comes to combat. It seems more universal than other aspects of game design.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:04
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Help Im Alive posted:I liked it in Arkham Asylum/City but i think the Batman combat was kinda bloated by Arkham Knight where you have like 20 gadgets and 15 enemy types that you each have to fight in a very specific way I loved the variety but in the challenges I would have liked some kind of checklist I could reference of what attacks I've performed or have yet to perform. Trying to get those Variation Bonuses by having to remember every single move and remember if you've done every single move is daunting. Bicyclops posted:I'm not sure that I've ever seen anything even nearing consensus on a a game that has good combat, like I'm legit not sure I've ever seen a thread for a game where there were not more complaints about the combat than compliments. Not everyone speaks up equally so it's hard to gauge, like wondering if a product or restaurant review is representative of how people feel generally or if the only people speaking up are the ones who had an especially good/bad experience.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:05
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Bicyclops posted:It's more than just "there's no consensus," though, like every single game has more critics than supporters specifically when it comes to combat. It seems more universal than other aspects of game design. I think that is because there is more to discuss with flaws than successes, especially if people tend to agree on the successes.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:07
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Bloodborne's combat is dangerously close to perfect and everyone who doesn't think so is wrong 
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Dec 14, 2016 23:09
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http://i.imgur.com/snOOPM0.gifv
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Dec 14, 2016 23:14
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ImpAtom posted:Batman, for example, is designed to simple, accessible and function on a rhythm and self-challenge atmosphere. To add to this, I would say a big part of Arkham's combat is focusing the player less on Batman or a singular target at any given moment and more on the whole crowd. Counters aren't just a saving grace mechanic meant to make things easier - they tie in to the notion that you/Batman are aware of what's going on all around you. Attacking can be as simple as one button press but moving the camera around and maintaining good position is vital to your success because of the threat of guns, projectiles, charging enemies, etc.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:15
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Bicyclops posted:I'm not sure that I've ever seen anything even nearing consensus on a a game that has good combat, like I'm legit not sure I've ever seen a thread for a game where there were not more complaints about the combat than compliments. metal gear rising, outside of having to buy dodge and not explaining it
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Dec 14, 2016 23:22
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Harrow posted:Bloodborne's combat is dangerously close to perfect and everyone who doesn't think so is wrong It's perfect at being Bloodborne combat for sure, and also I am very bad at it. Bayonetta or Dynasty Warriors or similar brawlers are more my speed. I love brawlers that are satisfying to just mash buttons in and take no time to get into some action. Even the variation within brawlers or stylish action games is really cool. Like Devil May Cry is nearly as different from Bayonetta as it is from Bloodborne. My biggest pet peeve in brawlers is enemies who can block mid combo or just power through without any staggering at all, particularly if they're bosses. It kills the pace and doing slight chips away at them is unsatisfying.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:23
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I think there were games reviewers who disliked Metal Gear Rising's combat but they may have been literal babies
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Dec 14, 2016 23:25
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Metal Gear Rising's combat is fun but the zandatsu mechanic honestly feels mostly stapled on as a legacy of the original version of Rising. It's only used well a small handful of times and at least one of those times is optional because it's easier to beat the boss without doing the trick. I don't think it would have lost much for not having it.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:27
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Bicyclops posted:I'm not sure that I've ever seen anything even nearing consensus on a a game that has good combat, like I'm legit not sure I've ever seen a thread for a game where there were not more complaints about the combat than compliments. Super Mario World has perfect combat
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Dec 14, 2016 23:30
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If I could make one big improvement to Bloodborne, I'd make enemies in NG+ drop Chalice Dungeon-level blood gems. NG+ is balanced around you having decent blood gems and by far the most reliable place to get those is in the deepest Chalice Dungeons, which some people really hate doing. (I like them, myself, but they're a very different experience from Bloodborne itself.) Having NG+ enemies drop the blood gems that you need to have a good time in NG+ would both make NG+ feel more exciting (new drops!) and also more fun (you can do the amount of damage the game expects you to!).
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Dec 14, 2016 23:30
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I like running NG+'s without blood gems as it gets harder and less forgiving
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Dec 14, 2016 23:31
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I just found it tedious after a while. I don't mind enemies having an easier time killing me than at a comparable level in normal NG, but normal enemies taking a bunch more hits to kill isn't that fun for me. Luckily, I like the Chalice Dungeons and had done a decent amount before going to NG+, so I never had the issue other people seemed to. I only noticed it when trying out new weapons without gemming them up. I could also be remembering the damage-to-enemy-HP ratio being worse than it actually is. Harrow fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 23:33
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A cool thing I appreciate about the Arkham games is that if there's more than a certain number of enemies in a given fight, the camera will start slowly rotating around Batman while the fight drags on. That wayyou don't have to worry about moving your thumb away from the face buttons and back to the camera controls. The fov also zooms way way out when you get into a fight.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:34
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I'm not sure if you can say there's a "perfect" combat system, but Arkham City comes closer to it than any other game by a mile in my opinion.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:37
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ImpAtom posted:Metal Gear Rising's combat is fun but the zandatsu mechanic honestly feels mostly stapled on as a legacy of the original version of Rising. It's only used well a small handful of times and at least one of those times is optional because it's easier to beat the boss without doing the trick. I don't think it would have lost much for not having it. Not sure what trick you're referring to (maybe sundowner if you mean blade mode in general?). Anyway I think it's a neat mechanic but it's lame how the scoring system demands you do it X number of times in every encounter, including bosses that summon grunts, barring the no-damage bonus.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:42
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Motto posted:Not sure what trick you're referring to (maybe sundowner if you mean blade mode in general?). Anyway I think it's a neat mechanic but it's lame how the scoring system demands you do it X number of times in every encounter, including bosses that summon grunts, barring the no-damage bonus. Yeah, I mean Sundowner where dodging behind him and smacking his back is way easier and faster than cutting his shields apart. I meant blade mode in general though, yeah.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:45
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Bicyclops posted:For some reason I was convinced that was a children's movie the first time I saw it, and I kept feeling weirder and weirder about it until the scene with the bottle being smashed into a guy's face, paused it, took a moment to recover, and then continued, now aware of what kind of movie I was watching.  .
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Dec 14, 2016 23:46
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, I mean Sundowner where dodging behind him and smacking his back is way easier and faster than cutting his shields apart. I meant blade mode in general though, yeah. Sometimes it's cooler to do a thing in the less expedient way.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:58
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