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Sun Wu Kampf posted:Wow gently caress this battle where you fight six berserkers that 100% charge their NP every turn. How are you even supposed to win without cheesing with quartz? Two AoEs, hopefully with self-NP charge or Kaleidos and Waver. I did Altera with Kaleido and Gil with Lv. 10 Collector and a 50% CE (lewd Iri I think). Ytlaya posted:So with Quetzalcoatl are they basically just ignoring the whole "gods can't be servants" thing? I remember a big plot point in Fate/Extra CCC was these weird girls who were like hybrids of goddesses or something and that was weird because it shouldn't be possible (IIRC). Artemis shed most of her divinity and squeezed herself into what should be Orion's body (in fact for most purposes she registers as Orion), Ishtar and the Jaguar nagual act through human vessels (btw those were described as 'the human with a connection to a HGW with the closest nature to Ishtar/most primal nature', respectively) and I believe Quetz does too although in her case we don't know the vessel. I suspect the main reason why you can't call a god in a Grail War is because HS summoning is a human thing by humans for humans and basically you don't have the right to ask a god for help. fake edit: Wait no. In Babylon they explained the end of the AoG. A divine spirit is not the same as a god. With the passing of the AoG, gods were reduced to divine spirits, which were basically hollow shells of what they were that can only observe from within the higher plane they fled to. They're made of/sustained by/control True Ether, which disappeared from the world and was replaced with Ether, that mages use to cast spells. Presumably, you can't summon divine spirits in the modern era because the world literally cannot support their existence. Thus the need for vessels. I'd guess the Gorgon's extraordinary weakness as gods means you can fit'em in a servant container as-is. BlitzBlast posted:Oh, you meant that. It's just talking about how the Mesoamerican gods were directly represented via priests, so her current appearance may be that of some ancient priestess. You're not doing some weird "summon that ancient priestess to summon Quetzy" loophole, you're just summoning her and she's taking that form because waifus. BlitzBlast posted:EDIT: I should probably note that the main reason I'm arguing against Quetzy being a Pseudo Servant is because (to my knowledge) she never mentions another will at all. A big part of all the Pseudo Servants released thus far is how the minds of the two souls are supposed to be hybridized, but Quetzy's thought processes seem entirely her own. She just loves humanity inherently because as a god, she already acted through human figures. https://chaldeum.wordpress.com/servant/rider144/ quote:This is an incarnation of a portion of one of the highest beings. Kyte fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 18:12
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Ytlaya posted:Hahahah same here, I think I got like 10 of them. This game mostly wouldn't have the draw it does for me if it wasn't Fate. Like that Waifu Hearthstone thing on Steam I've played like a total of twice because the Waifu's make it at least nominally more interesting than Warcraft. But beyond all of that, that gold spinny thing is hilariously addictive; most of the game is addictive in some very skinner box ways. I'd love a Game Design assessment of FGO in comparison to other games.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:42
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The game is legit fun in its current state.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:52
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Raenir Salazar posted:But beyond all of that, that gold spinny thing is hilariously addictive; most of the game is addictive in some very skinner box ways. I'd love a Game Design assessment of FGO in comparison to other games. I imagine this room full of Smart People spends weeks crafting the perfect "you got a really rare thing" images/animations for popular gacha games like this, P&D, that DBZ game, etc.
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Dec 15, 2016 21:10
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Ytlaya posted:I imagine this room full of Smart People spends weeks crafting the perfect "you got a really rare thing" images/animations for popular gacha games like this, P&D, that DBZ game, etc. There's probably massive research projects regarding video game chance myths and how to monetize them. Little did Bob know he would use his college degree to conduct the comprehensive review of every myth to ensuring that the pokeball stayed closed.
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Dec 15, 2016 21:43
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At least now that Mashu's fully ascended it's possible to level break her and toss her up to 90.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:15
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Sun Wu Kampf posted:At least now that Mashu's fully ascended it's possible to level break her and toss her up to 90. Actually, you can't. Even if she's at level 80, she's greyed out in the Grail Ascension menu. (Secret 5* final upgrade during the Solomon event, perhaps?)
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Dec 15, 2016 23:28
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Ytlaya posted:I imagine this room full of Smart People spends weeks crafting the perfect "you got a really rare thing" images/animations for popular gacha games like this, P&D, that DBZ game, etc. One bight, I realized I had just been designing a Vampire: the Masquerade gacha game in my head for the last two hours instead of sleeping.
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Dec 16, 2016 01:47
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You know, it's kind of surprising that we've seen all these alternate class versions of servants like Medusa, Artoria, Cu Chulainn, etc but haven't sen any other classes for Heracles, despite Heracles being (I think) the first servant ever mentioned to have multiple classes he fits with (and it being explicitly stated he fits Archer best). I'm also just kinda curious as to what non-Berserker Heracles would look like.
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Dec 16, 2016 02:33
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Ytlaya posted:You know, it's kind of surprising that we've seen all these alternate class versions of servants like Medusa, Artoria, Cu Chulainn, etc but haven't sen any other classes for Heracles, despite Heracles being (I think) the first servant ever mentioned to have multiple classes he fits with (and it being explicitly stated he fits Archer best). Archer Herc is not in probably because he's in an ongoing work (Fate/Strange Fake) and they don't want to spoil or gently caress up characterization.
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Dec 16, 2016 02:36
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IIRC it's the reason why they had Kingu take over Enkidu and didn't "flesh" (heh) him a lot as well
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Dec 16, 2016 02:41
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Fate/Strange Fake is great. Enkidu's Master is a dog. Rider's Master is a 10-year-old girl in a coma.
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Dec 16, 2016 03:05
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I'm reading the novel translations on BL and it's good as hell. Lionheart best Saber
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Dec 16, 2016 03:11
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I really want to see them make a Odysseus servant, he's my favorite greek hero. I probably said it before, I repeat myself sometimes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDPcYzS9W-c
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Dec 16, 2016 06:28
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So, any tips for a newcomer to the game? I've gotten to Okeanos, been grinding dailies when possible using support servants that let me even cheese the 40 AP ones. The current summon gacha isn't really appealing to me so I haven't been spending any on it, though I have been using mana prisms for tickets. Is there a specific trick to getting exp cards cause my servants are starting to get underlevelled in late Okeanos.
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Dec 16, 2016 09:50
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If you haven't buy the exp set from the shop, grind 30 ap exp and sell all the silver exp.
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Dec 16, 2016 12:27
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One thing that always bugged me is how EMIYA Archer mentions how he can project all these noble phantasms that he "encountered throughout his life" and that he also has thousands of them. How does that even work? Wouldn't he have to encounter some mythical great weapon in the modern era every few days or so to pull that off? The only explanation I can think of is that his time being summoned as a servant in other grail wars counts (since he'd see a bunch of noble phantasms doing that), though even then I don't see how he'd get thousands of them.
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Dec 16, 2016 18:10
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He spent most of his life Googling "sick-rear end legendary swords" and it turns out that reading the Wikipedia page for a weapon is good enough to project it
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Dec 16, 2016 18:14
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Presumably in his own route he also fought Gilgamesh.
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Dec 16, 2016 18:18
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Sun Wu Kampf posted:Presumably in his own route he also fought Gilgamesh. IIRC the Shirou that became EMIYA won with Saber in something similar to the Fate route. Something like their initial encounter would probably be enough to see a few dozen weapons; I don't know if Shirou was able to peer inside of Gate of Babylon, I vaguely recall he could sense what was inside his vault. Also not all of those swords are necessarily super awesome Noble Phantasms, nor is it necessarily only weapons he encountered in life. In Extella Archer also represents all of the "Nameless" forgotten heroes. This conjures imagery of the "Tomb/State of the Unknown Soldier" many countries have for War Memorials. So as a property of this he could have gotten all of their weapons by the Throne of Heroes as a freebie. I also think he gets the swords he sees for all the times the World summoned him as a Counterforce and anything he saw in life. We do seem to have a bunch of semi legendary swords lying around in Museums. Such as the Gajian Sword of Yue which looks almost as good as new. Presumably any sword lying in a museum Shirou can just look at it and knows instantly if it used to be a NP in the past. Gilgamesh has a passive ability it seems from the UBW anime that I'm unsure of was in the original VN but he seems to know and grasp the gist of the legends of the various Heroes that came after him. Like he knows about Herakles's 12 Labours which I'm not convinced is just something the Grail gave him. More likely being the First Hero also gave him the knowledge of all other Heroes that come after. Shirou I can imagine has a similar ability but with Swords, if he looks at Gae Bolg he can also Imagine Gungnir or any other Spear with the property of "Doesn't Miss it's Target when Thrown". The swords in his Reality Marble are supposed to represent each life he couldn't save, so it's probably that many of them are just regular swords.
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Dec 16, 2016 18:42
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Sun Wu Kampf posted:Presumably in his own route he also fought Gilgamesh. Even if this was the case, I seem to remember the language being something like "encountered throughout his life" rather than "encountered that one time Gilgamesh used Gate of Babylon", though I could be wrong about this.
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Dec 16, 2016 18:51
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Nyaa posted:If you haven't buy the exp set from the shop, grind 30 ap exp and sell all the silver exp. Guessing money gets scarce? Ignore all lower exp cards for the very best? Also, is there any point/use in 1-2 star servants?
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Dec 16, 2016 19:13
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He's telling you the trick to getting a ton of mana prisms, which you can exchange at Da Vinci's for like 40 4* ALL XP. Otherwise, if you want XP then either wait for an event or just grind the 40 AP experience daily. Servants need a lot of XP once you hit the higher levels, but even then one proper 40 AP daily is like 1 -2 levels. It adds up. And almost every single Servant has a niche. Aside from bronzes being easier to grind up/hit NP5/costing less team wise, if the team you're building has a spot for that niche and you don't have anyone objectively better then you may as well use them. Since you're likely unfamiliar, the main features of each bronzes are: Arash: Wave Clearing + Super Gimmicky Absurdly High Damage Mozart: Party Arts Buff + 1 turn Star generator Kojiro: Star Generator/Receiver Mata Hari: lol Asterios: 1 turn Buster Crit Machine + debuffer Spartacus: Tank Leonidas: Tank with a Taunt + Party Buster Buff Benkei: Tank + Can Sorta Disable Enemy NPs But That's Pretty Bad George: Tank with a Taunt + Makes Siegfried Less Useless Blackbeard: lol He's sorta useful for his skills if you're doing a bronze only run I guess Shakespeare: Party Buster Buff + Targetable 20% NP charge/star absorption buff Andersen: Critical damage buff + easy access NP that can buff attack/defense Sanson: Anti Evil Human Phantom of the Opera: lol Cursed Arm: Has a 3 use dodge and can sorta generate stars well enough Bloodaxe: lol Caligula: Glass Cannon
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Dec 16, 2016 20:37
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BlitzBlast posted:He's telling you the trick to getting a ton of mana prisms, which you can exchange at Da Vinci's for like 40 4* ALL XP. Ah, thanks. Just read further on a translation guide to the interface. Burning 3-star exp (Silver exp) gives you mana prisms? Well gently caress, I've been using them up previously. Edit: Is there any reason to keep Shielder up in levels? Or even have her in the front lines if you can squeeze out more type-advantages with other servants? I've read that she gets better after Camelot but I'm just at London. Argas fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Dec 16, 2016 |
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Dec 16, 2016 20:53
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IIRC, Fluffy is actually one of the best candidates for Grail Ascension as his stats weren't balanced with the idea that he could reach level 100. Edit: I rolled Franken-chan. Is she good? (Kinda wish it was Franken Fran instead) MonsieurChoc fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Dec 17, 2016 |
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Dec 16, 2016 21:40
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All bronze Servants get assloads of HP from the extra ~40 levels, but other than that there's nobody who strictly benefits from it more than anyone else. I guess Arash can become a super suicide bomber but eeeeeh. The only Servants who you could say are objectively "better" to grail that I know of are Saber Alter (ends up stronger than vanilla Saber), Heracles (he really appreciates the HP), and Cu (ends up better than most 5* Lancers). And even then they're not exactly showstoppers either; just grail your favorite Servant. Frankenstein is an okay wave clearer. Argas posted:Edit: Is there any reason to keep Shielder up in levels? Or even have her in the front lines if you can squeeze out more type-advantages with other servants? I've read that she gets better after Camelot but I'm just at London. Mashu is bar none the best stall Servant in the game. This comes up almost never (Babylon tried to incorporate it but it just hands you Merlin so lol), but it's a thing. She'll also get some kind of bonus in the final Solomon raid, though no details of that yet. After Camelot her party defense buff gets a flat damage reduction added as well. It basically makes it so she can guarantee up to three turns of little to no damage (Party Defense Up -> invincibility + taunt -> NP) EDIT: Got Kiyohime to Bond 10 at last woooooo BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Dec 17, 2016 |
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Dec 17, 2016 02:40
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BlitzBlast posted:All bronze Servants get assloads of HP from the extra ~40 levels, but other than that there's nobody who strictly benefits from it more than anyone else. I guess Arash can become a super suicide bomber but eeeeeh. Yeah, I tend to use her skills quite a lot, she's just not that impressive on the damage side due to standing outside the RPS triangles, and my party being generally underleveled means I lean heavily on support servants. Servant-wise, I have EMIYA and Carmilla from the initial draw. Picked up Medea later. Mostly been slotting one of those three in appropriate/neutral matchups alongside Shielder and crazy-strong supports. Have Cu Caster, Kiyohime, and David from story missions. For 3-stars, I have Caesar, Euryale, Robin Hood, Young Cu, Tawara Toda, Paracelsus, Geronimo, Hassan of Serenity, Young Alex and, Lu Bu. Have not really bothered leveling the last bunch of 3-stars yet because until recently I was starved on exp cards and I'm not sure how well they compare. Plus, holding out for better quartz draws.
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Dec 17, 2016 02:56
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I speak from experience when I say you can lean on your Support until the very last bits of America. After that you basically need to sit down and make a real team. Euryale is worth raising up because she's useful in Camelot, Emiya eventually becomes one of the best crit receivers in the game, Caesar is a pretty good "if you don't have any better Sabers" guy, and David has a handy dodge skill that can help your Support servant survive longer. I have to imagine you have bronzes too: if you're got Shakespeare, his Enchant and The Kings Men skill are pretty worthwhile, especially if you get a Raikou support. Hans is also a similarly useful support-oriented Servant. If (and this is a big if) you have a Piece of 2030 CE (or anything that generates stars every turn), you could get started on building a crit team based on Emiya. Get a support Jack, put the 2030 on a Servant of your choice (preferably Hans), and then fully ascend Emiya and do both strengthening quests. Other than that, though, you kinda don't have anyone worth building a team around. It's a downside of starting late, and the game isn't going to tear into you too hard, but Camelot and later Babylon are going to feel like complete slogs. Also Proto Cu isn't Cu Lily! EDIT: If you want to roll for anyone better, the major people to look for are: 1. Waver - The heart and soul of so many wave clearing teams. 2. Jack the Ripper - The best Assassin, and the key too all crit oriented teams. 3. Saber Lancelot - The current best Saber and a backbone of Arts Crit teams. 4. Cu Alter - In the running for best Berserker, and a good all purpose damage guy. Sadly a lot of the other real all stars are limited, so you won't find them anymore. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Dec 17, 2016 |
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Dec 17, 2016 03:27
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Robin Hood is really good, his NP does a ton of damage and he's got a nice skillset.
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Dec 17, 2016 03:30
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He used to be really good, but then they fixed the bug on Yew Bow and now he's just down to okay. His big issue is that he's a one hit wonder who's completely reliant on overcharge to hit outside his weight class, and his NP gen isn't nearly good enough on his own so he needs stuff like Edison, the Kiara CE, or Waver to help him out. He'll do well enough against generic Saber bosses, but if that guy wants to raise an Archer then I think Emiya and Euryale will provide more immediate benefits.
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Dec 17, 2016 03:42
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BlitzBlast posted:I speak from experience when I say you can lean on your Support until the very last bits of America. Thanks for all the help. Have they redone summoning campaigns for limited servants after their release? I've used to the idolmaster phone game (my poor wallet!) where they'd occasionally bring back limited cards (usually higher % of drawing them vs other super rares) for a week or so, usually when it's seasonally appropriate. And I do have a bunch of bronzes from friend point draws. Luckily just happened to start when they were handing out thousands of points.
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Dec 17, 2016 03:48
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Last year they had a paid quartz only gacha on New Years that brought back all the limited servants. So that's a thing that might happen again. Otherwise, it's pretty rare for limited servants to show up again.
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Dec 17, 2016 03:54
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BlitzBlast posted:He used to be really good, but then they fixed the bug on Yew Bow and now he's just down to okay. His big issue is that he's a one hit wonder who's completely reliant on overcharge to hit outside his weight class, and his NP gen isn't nearly good enough on his own so he needs stuff like Edison, the Kiara CE, or Waver to help him out. 
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Dec 17, 2016 03:57
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BlitzBlast posted:Last year they had a paid quartz only gacha on New Years that brought back all the limited servants. So that's a thing that might happen again. Bah, once a year is common enough. 
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Dec 17, 2016 03:58
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I'm missing a whole aspect of this game when it comes to building "teams" because Welfare Servants plus lucky Gacha breaks have given enough enough 4*'s and 5*'s that I've gotten past Camelot even once I got Kuro and could slot in Archeria.
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Dec 17, 2016 04:45
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One day I will give a poo poo to get Cu Alter but until that day I am satisfied with my Golden.
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Dec 17, 2016 06:12
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Raenir Salazar posted:I'm missing a whole aspect of this game when it comes to building "teams" because Welfare Servants plus lucky Gacha breaks have given enough enough 4*'s and 5*'s that I've gotten past Camelot even once I got Kuro and could slot in Archeria. It's honestly not that hard, you just look at what you have and work around your favorite. The three main specializations are: 1. AoE NP Spam You need a Waver at at least 3rd Ascension, the Battle Suit mystic code, three Servants with AoE NPs (the third can be a Support), and the best CEs that give you an initial NP gauge bonus you can scrounge up. Kaleidoscopes preferred. The strategy is to have Waver charge up two Servants, then you switch him out for the third Servant. Drop a NP every turn, and have the other Servants attack to charge up their NP if they need to. Warning: This team will make you pray for a NP Skip option from the bottom of your soul. This team is really reliant on getting lucky at the gacha, but if you can build it farming XP becomes a casual three turn affair. It'll thresh enemy servants all the way up till Camelot, though from that point onwards you'll need to retool and swap an AoE out with a support oriented Servant. As an example, my generic hand clearing team is Waver - Darius (Imaginary Magic) - Kiyohime (Kaleidoscope) - Whatever Support I Feel Like. My retooled team is Waver - Kiyohime (Kaleidoscope) - Support Raikou - Shakespeare (Golden Catches a Carp). I have to fight through the first round manually, but Kiyohime can sweep the second and a fully boosted Raikou can shred just about anything the third round throws at me. 2. Critical Spam You need a Jack, someone who can buff critical damage (ideally Waver with Piece of 2030 attached, but Hans is fine too), and a designated star receiver. Jack generates stars, and then the star receiver takes the stars to crit like crazy. There are two main variants: Buster Crits and Arts Crits. The former just beats everything into submission the old fashioned way (Cu Alter, Raikou, Kintoki, just about anyone with 2+ Buster cards), while the latter uses the crits to charge up NPs fast (Saber Lancelot, Archer Artoria, Chloe, anyone with 2+ Arts cards and half decent NP). If you're wondering why people don't use Quick Crits, it's because they do poo poo damage. This team has a pretty big advantage in that it's relatively easy to assemble. Hans is easy to pick up from the FP Gacha if you can't score Waver, you can get Jack as a Support Servant, and you can reroll for Emiya at the beginning. Also drat near anyone can be a star receiver. A lot of Servants have a skill that ups star absorption for a turn, and there are numerous CEs that raise it for you. My personal setup is Jack (Piece of 2030) - Waver (Piece of 2030) - Saber Lancelot/Emiya (Festival Walk). I know, I can't believe I got two 2030s either. 3. Stall This is a little different from the others in that there is a clear ideal team: Waver - Mashu - Tamamo. Spam Arts chains to build NP, spam Tamamo and Mashu's NPs to stay alive, and have Waver debuff/stun the enemies a poo poo ton. Since pure survival isn't needed outside of raids, most people swap out one of the trio for an offensive Arts based Servant. Saber Lancelot, Berserker Vlad, and Emiya are pretty good picks, though Robin also used to be popular since this team was great for building up Overcharge. This team will also make you pray for NP Skips. Also RIP Tamamo because when Merlin gets in for good he's going to kick her to the curb. You are guaranteed to have Mashu, so you just have to grab either Waver or Tamamo as a Support and then use whoever you feel like for the third. I should note that on average the game still isn't hard enough to specifically need these setups, so there's nothing stopping you from using a generic "good stuff" team full of as many gold Servants as you can cram in. But using these teams will make battles significantly smoother, and whenever a puzzle fight comes around you can usually retool one of them to fit the battle at hand.
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Dec 17, 2016 07:36
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BlitzBlast posted:He used to be really good, but then they fixed the bug on Yew Bow and now he's just down to okay. His big issue is that he's a one hit wonder who's completely reliant on overcharge to hit outside his weight class, and his NP gen isn't nearly good enough on his own so he needs stuff like Edison, the Kiara CE, or Waver to help him out. They fixed the bug and turned it into feature, dude. His first skill applies poison. So unless you're unlucky with debuff resistance the net effect is the same.
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Dec 17, 2016 07:53
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Last I checked they fixed it so the Overcharge effect only worked on poison like it was supposed to instead of stacking for every kind of debuff the enemy had. I could be mistaken, but I haven't seen any videos of Robin scoring millions of damage lately so I dunno. Would've thought people would've used him for Gawain in Camelot or Siegfried during the Nero event too. EDIT: Looked it up and welp, I was totally misremembering how much damage people were pumping out with him. Never mind then, Robin's still good! Also there was apparently an expo or something because twitter is aflame with news. The highlights: /fgog/ posted:>Valentine 2016 rerun, new servants will get their Valentine CEs too  quote:They talk a bit about the control quests. You will fight Demon Pillars and have to defeat them to weaken the others. Basically they all buff each other and by taking them one by one you remove their buffs. They will also respawn from time to time so you need to kill them again. Their HP is global so everyone is contributing. There is also no turn limit and they don't stop you from progressing through the story so if you come late to the raid and they are all dead, you have nothing to worry about. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Dec 17, 2016 |
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Dec 17, 2016 07:57
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Robin is also cool and good because he's a nice guy who likes birds and helps kids.
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Dec 17, 2016 09:23
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