Main Paineframe posted:

It's an utter disaster for Israel - the next couple years will be great for the Israeli right, but in the long-term it could seriously hurt Israel's support in the US. Israel's relationship with the Diaspora is already rather delicate, since the Haredi parties have disproportionate power in the government and have used it to carve out all sorts of special privileges for themselves while relegating non-Orthodox Jews to second-class status, and Netanyahu's repeated attempts to turn foreign Jews into unpaid envoys for his foreign policy have been causing concern in the Diaspora.

DrProsek posted:

How much does the US/Israel relation rely on American Jews? My understanding was that while it certainly doesn't hurt that American Jews generally are supportive of the US/Israeli relation, the real backbone behind the relation is a) religious right/Islamophobia, and b) defense industry/neocon expansionism.

I don't doubt that Trump and Friedman will (together with Bibi) make the US/Israeli relation much more of a GOP/Likud relation, and the end result will be if the Democrats ever regain power (especially if it's under the guide of the Sanders/Ellison wing of the party) it will take a lot of work to reestablish the bipartisan support for Israel, but I'm wondering how much the relation relies on the opinions of American Jews.

Feral Integral posted:

I keep hearing conflicting poo poo on this - does Palestine have or not have nuclear weapons?

Feral Integral posted:

I keep hearing conflicting poo poo on this - does Palestine have or not have nuclear weapons?

Feral Integral posted:

I keep hearing conflicting poo poo on this - does Palestine have or not have nuclear weapons?

Main Paineframe posted:

It's an utter disaster for Israel - the next couple years will be great for the Israeli right, but in the long-term it could seriously hurt Israel's support in the US. Israel's relationship with the Diaspora is already rather delicate, since the Haredi parties have disproportionate power in the government and have used it to carve out all sorts of special privileges for themselves while relegating non-Orthodox Jews to second-class status, and Netanyahu's repeated attempts to turn foreign Jews into unpaid envoys for his foreign policy have been causing concern in the Diaspora.

Feral Integral posted:

I keep hearing conflicting poo poo on this - does Palestine have or not have nuclear weapons?

Feral Integral posted:

I keep hearing conflicting poo poo on this - does Palestine have or not have nuclear weapons?

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Neither the Palestinian Authority nor Hamas possess nuclear weapons that I am aware of, and trust me, they would flaunt them if they had them. This is the first I've heard that someone actually believes this. Where is this coming from?

shrike82 posted:

Yeah they've been working with the Pakistanis for years - I wouldn't be surprised if they have access to WMDs.

Feral Integral posted:

I keep hearing conflicting poo poo on this - does Palestine have or not have nuclear weapons?

Kim Jong Il posted:

I don't think this take holds up on a few levels. We're in for four years of Trump, and then he'll probably lose to a generic R or a generic D. None of those possibilities, especially given the makeup of Congress, are likely to enact any sort of consequences on Likud.

Secondly, this notion of a growing dichotomy is not really true. There is a left wing contingent, ranging from J Street to BDS supporters, who are increasingly loud. There's no evidence however that they're growing in number however. The only consistent demographic trend among American Jewry is the middle is disappearing, as they are becoming either increasingly disengaged, secular, and disinterested (as opposed to hostile) in anything Jewish. Or on the other side, the Modern Orthodox dutifully have 3-4 children and the Haredim don't believe in birth control at all.

This is also in the context of Israel having a Likud government for 7 years. Having the left or center in place, even without significant policy changes, would lead to a lot more sympathetic coverage internationally.

rscott posted:

What is this dumb poo poo about Obama trying to hack the Israeli election "just like the Russians did to America" that the nuts on my Facebook are posting because I can't remember a drat thing about something like that

rscott posted:

What is this dumb poo poo about Obama trying to hack the Israeli election "just like the Russians did to America" that the nuts on my Facebook are posting because I can't remember a drat thing about something like that

Main Paineframe posted:

It will grow if Trump's Israel ambassador keeps declaring publicly that Jews who don't support Israel aren't Jewish. The Dems had a tough fight to keep pro-Palestine stuff out of the party platform in 2016, and Trump is going to burn Dem support for Israel right down.

American Jews are already overwhelmingly secular, non-Orthodox, left-leaning, and Democratic-voting. Orthodox and Haredi Jewish communities are growing faster, but they're much smaller, and have significant problems fitting into American society. Also, while the Modern Orthodox are super-pro-Israel, Haredi Jews are only slightly more pro-Israel than Conservative Jews, and their views on most social issues are so far to the right that they largely shut themselves out of national politics anyway.

Kim Jong Il posted:

I don't think it will. It's a community that's largely disengaged, they're not hysterically reading Forward. The average Jewish American is something like a 55 year old Hillary Clinton supporter with moderate views. In fact, there are quite a lot of really partisan D Jews who are also rabidly Zionist. Everyone has an aunt like Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Left-leaning doesn't mean rabidly drinking the Sanders kool aid, in fact they were definitively against him. It's certainly a very progressive group on issues like gay rights, but not so much on economics (more than anything they want Bill Clinton style subservience to the middle class) and definitely foreign policy.

I wasn't trying to imply that the Haredim are Zionist, but they are largely Republican. They only vote D when it's going to be a landslide or they can horsetrade their votes for kick backs, as often happens in NY politics. Conservative Jews are a fair bit more Zionist, but in comparison the Modern Orthodox aren't that different from Evangelicals.

quote:

After Rabbi Elad Dokow calls tree an 'affront to Jewish identity on campus,' Technion says in response that it 'allows students from all religions to express themselves with respect and tolerance.'
Rabbi Elad Dokow of the Technion issued a prohibition against Jewish students entering the university's student union due to the Christmas tree that has been put up in the building.

“The Christmas tree is a religious symbol – not Christian, but even more problematic – pagan,”Dokow wrote in a question-and-answer section on the religious Srugim website. “Halakha clearly states that whenever it is possible to circumvent and not pass through a place where there is any kind of idolatry, this must be done. So one should not enter the student union if it's not necessary to do so.”

The Technion responded that Dokay had expressed his opinion on his personal Facebook page and his words "expressed his personal opinion and not that of the Technion."

The institution, it declared, was determined to continue being a perfect example for tolerance and coexistence in Israeli society."

Dokay said that he wrote the prohibition “in wake of the student union’s affront to the Jewish identity on campus, by placing a Christmas tree (if only there were a menorah of that size)… in the public space (the student union) and giving a place to religious Christian identity in the heart of the Technion.”

Asked if it was permissible to buy food or eat in the student union, the rabbi replied, “Unfortunately, I do not see any way to permit this, especially since there is a problem with uttering God’s name and reciting blessings in a place where such problematic things are found.”

his objection, the rabbi wrote, “This is an anti-Jewish and not just an anti-'religious’ symbol. Is it conceivable that in the name of some type of liberty we would let students declare that Jerusalem does not belong to the Jewish people as was done by UNESCO? Must we accept everything without reservation or limit? In the name of acceptance, would we sanction a Spanish food festival that prominently featured pork (I served as a rabbi in Madrid and that is the national food there)?”

The rabbi also wrote it would not be sufficient if a menorah were also placed there next to the tree, because “it would be paired with something that represents the total antithesis of the Hasmoneans’ entire struggle.” Dokow added, “I would have expected something different from an academic institution – an approach that is more scientific and intellectually and ethically thoughtful.”

Asked whether freedom of worship extended to all citizens, the rabbi answered, “This is not about freedom of worship. It’s about the public space of the campus. This is the world’s only Jewish state. And it has a role to be a ‘light unto the nations’ and not to uncritically embrace every idea.” ( )

"Even before the Technion opened it gates about 100 years ago, its founders stated that the institution they hoped to build would be open to all, irrespective of religion, ethnicity and gender," the Technion said in its response.

"As a result, all Technion students study side-by-side today an in full equality – Jewish students, Muslims, Christians, Jews, Druze, Circassions, religious and secular. They are in deep and constant dialogue that is open and tolerant and serves as a perfect example for tolerance and coexistence in Israeli society.

"The Technion students union also believes that the Technion has to be open to students of all religions and communities. Thus, student representatives from all social, religious and cultural affiliations sit together on the management of the student union.

"The union, it goes without saying, celebrates all the Jewish festivals and, concurrently, it allows students from other religions to express themselves with respect and tolerance. The different festivals are celebrated in a range of ways, including, in this case, a Christmas tree beside the Hanukkah menorah.

"Just as Haifa celebrated the annual "Festival of Festivals" and other cities around the world have public ceremonies in which the Hanukkah candles are lit, the students union wanted to give voice to all religions together, with the emphasis on connection and not division.

"It's also worth mentioning that hundreds of students from all over the world study int the Technion's international school, and they too should be respected.

"We are determined to continue being a perfect example for tolerance and coexistence in Israeli society."

Technion student Peter Hana said that the decision to decorate the student union with a Christmas tree and Santa hats was reached by a number of students, and was done in order to generate a festive atmosphere. A Hanukkah lamp was also put in place in honor of Hanukkah.

"An absolute majority of students, as well as management and the dean, expressed their support for the initiative, and only a handful of students and the rabbi himself chose to come out against it. We're pleased with the great sympathy shown and the position of the management, which welcomed the initiative and came out against any negative expressions on the matter," he added.

In a message to Technion President Prof. Peretz Lavie, MK Yousef Jabareen of the Joint List argued that the rabbi’s words constitute incitement and that he should therefore be fired. “There’s no need to elaborate on the gravity of these statements, and the serious offense to the Technicon’s Arab students and to Israeli Arabs in general. These statements contain clear incitement to racism, in violation of the law, and therefore also constitute a serious criminal offense,” Jabareen wrote.

The MK says such statements harm the fabric of Jewish-Arab relations and thus stand in stark contradiction to the Technion’s impressive efforts over the last few years to integrate Arab students. Jabareen called for Dokow’s immediate dismissal as rabbi of the Technion synagogue. He also called on the school’s administration to denounce his statements, and to call upon students to come and partake of the cultural richness at the student union.

Friendly Factory posted:

how is your shtick not over yet

Friendly Factory posted:

how is your shtick not over yet

Avshalom posted:

Ultramega posted:

man, shut the gently caress up.

fool_of_sound posted:

She's the best poster in the thread.

DrProsek posted:

It's cool when I see 20+ new posts in a thread and I go "wow this thread is normally pretty quiet, what happened now" and like, 90% of the time it's Avshalom's dumb gimmick posting.