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Passwall is great but DEEE traditionally have issues surviving the 2-4 turns of doing nothing but hugging the wall asking it to be your friend. AE is mainly stuff like gargoyles, statues, electric eels that can show up in the early game and are a huge pain to deal with. Even stuff like sun demons, god help you if an orc priest busts one of those out. Araganzar fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Dec 17, 2016 |
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Dec 17, 2016 08:10
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Sage Grimm posted:AE puts you in melee range to deal the most damage which isn't the greatest play for squishy mages. Zap can miss and Static Discharge is pricey for spamming it early game. Then Swiftness is such that you can't really cast it in preparation for handling an enemy so you're ready to bail because of the movement speed penalty after it wears off. So if things do go poorly, you need to be prescient and cast it just before things go wrong or you cross your fingers and hope the extra turn after getting reamed doesn't get you killed. What's more, lightning bolt is almost certainly the weakest mid-game spell in a starting book. It's dangerous to use and highly unreliable. Static discharge can handle most threats that lightning bolt can't but also not as safely and reliably once you're a couple floors into lair as other mid game options like sticky flame/fireball, throw icicle/icebeasts, petrify/lrd or battlesphere/IMB. I actually quite like lightning bolt on low-mid level hybrids, since it's monstrously powerful if you use it at the right time and you're lucky, but it's not so easy to get enough experience to hybridize early and make lightning bolt powerful enough to feel relevant (it really needs good spell power to be worth it, because of range and accuracy more than damage). AE's starting book feels very awkward to use and much less streamlined and well designed than other books. Lightning bolt, in particular, either needs to be buffed and replaced with something else, or knocked down to level four and weakened.
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Dec 17, 2016 09:18
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PleasingFungus posted:oh, that's a good idea! while we're talking about bringing back removed content, why not bring back shadow traps? You can bring back shadow traps if you give us rmut back.
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Dec 17, 2016 09:21
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Summoners are so fun. It's so easy to dip out of a tough fight by just spamming small mammals and the summons are all really interesting with the exception of summon canine which is just a solid minion in general that I usually just try to keep up. The lack of attack spells kinda hurts, but a bow or dagger usually shores that weakness up pretty well.
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Dec 17, 2016 10:00
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Lightning bolt is pretty powerful IMO, it's just less reliable. Unlike bolt of magma, cold, fire, it does not decrease in range for each enemy it penetrates, and can naturally reach as far as you can see, quite contrary to earth, for instance. Zap is similar in this respect. It's still the 2nd worst level five spell for handling hydras right after bolt of venom. There are still ways to work around this even before gods are considered, but God save you from blink and spiny frogs, because nothing else will (except going somewhere else, of course). My beginner magic choices are Draconian conjurers of Vehumet- you get exposed to a lot of spells, great health and solid AC. I also like to take up venom mages with decent slings, fighting, or polearms aptitudes. I'll train a combat skill or two to six for basic competency and then turn them off through much of lair to focus on magic. I'll often focus more on the mines or dungeons before lair, but their stats can support a variety of playstyles, including more magic, with better fuel efficiency. Tip for your venom mage- three or so levels of stealth early on can have a pretty big impact on planning your fights.
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Dec 17, 2016 11:48
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Actually, I find lightning bolt quite nice for hydras since it can one shot them a fair bit of the time. That's where it really shines, against very nasty single targets when you can set up a bounce. It's also quite good against big packs of durable critters, like yaks or death yaks. The issue is that it can also crap out and do nothing, and does so fairly frequently, while also alerting the entire floor to your position, meaning you just blew a bunch of MP on failing to resolve a bad situation at the same time as making it very likely that things are about to get a whole lot worse. It's still good, and the book of air absolutely equips you to handle just about everything in lair, it just that AE lacks a reliable main nuke in the mid game that doesn't feel lovely to use. Lightning bolt feels great as a supplementary tool, not as a main source of damage, and static discharge, which is great in around d:5 - d:6 and still decent in the early mid-game, starts to feel a little weak pretty quickly. Venom mages are quite good, though I usually take a hybrid approach. Poison magic to 7-8 and a tiny bit in conjurations for sting early on gives you OTR and meph cloud to simply ruin the day of anything not resistant to poison, while leaving you enough xp to train a weapon and some defenses for anything that resists. Spiny frogs and black mambas can be a problem, but can typically be handled as long as you're not very poorly equipped, in which case you just do orc first. Hydras are a bigger problem, but can be managed with standard tactics (wands, walking away, conjure flame or other good low level anti-hydra spells you might have found, god powers, or just killing it in melee if you're, say, a buff Chei character). Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Dec 17, 2016 |
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Dec 17, 2016 12:21
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My guy with the super awesome start met a salty doom.
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Dec 17, 2016 13:02
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SirSamVimes posted:You can bring back shadow traps if you give us rmut back. just don't do extended it's boring anyways
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Dec 17, 2016 14:20
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SirSamVimes posted:You can bring back shadow traps if you give us rmut back. gently caress no, keep shadow traps, I don't want rMut that bad. Especially since warding no longer exists.
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Dec 17, 2016 15:07
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A +12 fire dragon armour, splendid!
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Dec 17, 2016 15:39
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What are some good beginner tips for a summoner to survive long term?
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Dec 17, 2016 15:47
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tweet my meat posted:What are some good beginner tips for a summoner to survive long term? You are a hybrid class. To get value out of your summons, you need to wading into melee with them. So train a weapon (polearms!) skill and buff up your defense. Strongly resist the urge to dip into conjurations. They are not helpful with what you're trying to do. Your mana should be spent on more meatshields, not blasting. Ash and Chei are both solid god choices, because they support hybridization. Sif is also good, because she ensures you get those strong but rare mid/late game summon spells: tentacle, monstrous menagerie (wait did that get removed?), haunt, and so on. As always, run before you think you need to, using your summons as shields to get a lot of extra distance. Tailor your summons to the situation. Try to have a tool kit with different summons. No need for menagerie and summon hydra; they are both summon killey dudes spells. Instead, get hydra for murdering dudes, mana viper to lock down mages, and haunt for smite-targeted chaff.
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Dec 17, 2016 16:07
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Woah a hell portal in the lair? How can I say no?
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Dec 17, 2016 16:29
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SirSamVimes posted:You can bring back shadow traps if you give us rmut back. No. No deal. This has to be seconded and voted on and even then I'm going to claim Russia hacked the results. Heithinn Grasida posted:Actually, I find lightning bolt quite nice for hydras since it can one shot them a fair bit of the time. That's where it really shines, against very nasty single targets when you can set up a bounce. Lbolt accuracy is 7+pow/40, compared to 8+pow/20 for level 5 bolts and 8+pow/25 for level 6. Damage is also 1 die vs 3-6 for any other spell. This makes it horribly unreliable. Feels great to one-shot but low accuracy and high variability of damage are not ideal against something that can shred you in two turns. Lair is especially bad because most levels are large and pretty open. It can take a while to set up a bounce and it's hard to avoid losing range doing so. Other bolts' noise is equivalent to spell level at origin and terminus so noise stays close to LOS (noise level * 1.176 in distance). Fireball and Meph do 15, but only at their target square. Lightning bolt does 25 at the origin and 25 at the terminus. This creates two sources that are as loud THROUGH A WALL as fireball or max piety Qazlal. All this movement and noise attracts attention. In Lair this means Spiny Frogs, Blink Frogs, Moccasins, and Mambas - all common, all speed 14, all 60% movement delay in water (which hydrae also have). These guys are all deadly as gently caress to most casters and hard to escape with swiftness in big open levels with little chance to break LOS. Then there are Killer Bees, Wolves, Wyverns - all speed 15-20. Lightning bolt is "quite nice" for Hydrae the same way Chei makes you feel "quite powerful". Meanwhile fireball/sticky flame, throw icicle, and battlesphere/IMB/dart all take them out quite nicely. Even stone arrow, it might take 5-6 casts but at least you won't invite half the goddamn level to the party.
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Dec 17, 2016 16:50
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Smiling Knight posted:You are a hybrid class. To get value out of your summons, you need to wading into melee with them. So train a weapon (polearms!) skill and buff up your defense. Alternatively: You are not a hybrid class. To get value of your summons, you need to let them melee. Do not train a weapon. Do not buff up your defense. Definitely dip into conjurations if you have strong apts for conj or an element. They are very helpful with what you are trying to do. Your mana should be spent on blasting when you are not summoning. Ash and Chei are terrible choices because they offer no mana return or regen. Sif is ideal, because she offers mana return, miscast protection, emergency casting, and guaranteed high level summons. Ideally, you train nothing but spellcasting, summons, and invocations through lair with token amounts to defenses. This lets you cast menagerie and hydra by the time you hit lair branches. Around that time try to get fighting to 10 and enough dodging/gear to have EV in the high 20s. Get conjuration if you want to be a caster and weapon/hexes if you want to hybridize. You have time, high level summons will crush deep D, lair vaults, and Vaults. edit: to be clear, not crapping on the idea of Ash/hybridization but the "pure summoner" is also highly viable. But don't play Chei as a beginner. Playing Chei will not teach you the game. It will cause you to massively devalue some threats and massively overestimate others when playing any other god. Araganzar fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Dec 17, 2016 |
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Dec 17, 2016 17:11
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For those just joining us Ashe is the second best god right after Xom.
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Dec 17, 2016 17:13
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Antique Lich - A Lich who has grown expensive over the years.
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Dec 17, 2016 17:48
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The most important thing to bring back is Singularity.
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Dec 17, 2016 18:08
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Ambivalent Lich - A neutral lich
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Dec 17, 2016 18:35
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Heim Lich - A german house Lich
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Dec 17, 2016 18:39
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Probably a dumb question: how do you access your morgue files on CAO? VVVVV thanks! Voodoofly fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Dec 18, 2016 |
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Dec 17, 2016 20:53
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^^^^ No prob!Voodoofly posted:Probably a dumb question: how do you access your morgue files on CAO? http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Voodoofly/ Also, you can see your profile at: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/voodoofly.html Dairy Power fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Dec 18, 2016 |
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Dec 18, 2016 00:45
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Dang Voodoo that is a shameful record. I am disappoint
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Dec 18, 2016 01:31
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Love the new crystal walls tiles. Feels like I'm playing Crawl: Chessmaster 4000
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Dec 18, 2016 02:10
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loving shoals jesus christ.
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Dec 18, 2016 02:40
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Veh just offered my DECj spellforged servitor; I took it on a lark despite my only experience with it being hugely negative (gross antisynergy with ChainLit and Tornado). With haste now gone (and me ruing my charms investment for Battlesphere), is this actually a good spell anymore? It seems absurdly limiting in order to get it work (the HUGE pruning of own spellbook with super-limited amnesia scrolls) only to get a few extra casts of Parrow/Iood/LCS?
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Dec 18, 2016 04:04
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First victory since coming back to the game. Last played when 0.15 was in development! http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/brainwrinkle/morgue-brainwrinkle-20161218-030759.txtpre:1599834 brainwrinkle the Slayer (level 27, 141/176 HPs)
Began as a Gargoyle Monk on Dec 7, 2016.
Was an Elder of Hepliaklqana.
Escaped with the Orb
... and 3 runes on Dec 18, 2016!
The game lasted 13:41:09 (79442 turns).
brainwrinkle the Slayer (Gargoyle Monk) Turns: 79442, Time: 13:41:10
Health: 141/176 AC: 71 Str: 22 XL: 27
Magic: 34/36 EV: 14 Int: 11 God: Hepliaklqana [****..]
Gold: 4786 SH: 22 Dex: 22 Spells: 1 memorised, 28 levels left
rFire + + . SeeInvis + a - +9 demon whip (freeze)
rCold + + . Gourm . F - +11 gold dragon scales
rNeg + . . Faith . j - +2 shield of Resistance {rF+ rC+ MR+}
rPois ∞ Spirit . e - +1 helmet {Int+3}
rElec + Reflect + T - +2 cloak
rCorr + Harm . y - +0 pair of gloves
MR +++.. Clarity + E - +2 pair of boots {run}
Stlth +......... Y - +5 amulet of reflection
L - ring "Pyaraf" {Int-2 Dex+5 Slay+3 Stlth+}
A - ring of resist corrosion
@: flying, very slightly contaminated, quick
A: reduced essence, big wings, icy blue scales 1, see invisible, clarity,
negative energy resistance 1, electricity resistance, slow regeneration 2, weak
1, unbreathing, evolution 1, petrification resistance, rot immunity, AC +20
a: Stop Flying, Recall Ancestor, Ancestor Identity, Transference, Idealise,
Renounce Religion
0: Orb of Zot
}: 3/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, silver
This is my third win overall. Previous wins were 3 rune MiBe, and 15 rune MfSk. Gargoyles are cheating. Hepliaklqana with the Hexes ancestor is cheating. Combined I had to worry about smiters and almost nothing else. Looks like I only died 3 times before winning again, so I guess some of your skills do stick with you. Despite all of my bitching, I think the DCSS devs do a pretty great job of improving the game. Shorter branches helped address boring stretches where nothing too interesting happened.
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Dec 18, 2016 04:19
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Serephina posted:Veh just offered my DECj spellforged servitor; I took it on a lark despite my only experience with it being hugely negative (gross antisynergy with ChainLit and Tornado). With haste now gone (and me ruing my charms investment for Battlesphere), is this actually a good spell anymore? It seems absurdly limiting in order to get it work (the HUGE pruning of own spellbook with super-limited amnesia scrolls) only to get a few extra casts of Parrow/Iood/LCS? I wonder if there's any reason haste wasn't just changed to haste other.
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Dec 18, 2016 04:55
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Fitzy Fitz posted:I wonder if there's any reason haste wasn't just changed to haste other. Regular Brogue advertisement: that game has a staff (Brogue's spell equivalent) of haste other.
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Dec 18, 2016 05:02
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Here is a tip if you see runed or shiny quicksilver dragon armor it's cursed. Are you guys ready to hate my new OpWz yet? code:If you're in town stay with my Op he's got really good Wifi... edit: STILL ON D8! code:Also Misfortune and Young Poisoner's. Does Yara's Unravelling work on monsters poisoned with Olgreb or just the caster? Does it work on confusion applied by meph? Anyone ever use it? It seems situational. Araganzar fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Dec 18, 2016 |
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Dec 18, 2016 06:28
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Good lord with luck like that something insane is going to happen like hornet and lernean hydra waiting by the upstair
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Dec 18, 2016 13:50
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Pandemonium sure is a blast with ashenzari on your side. Stomp around, obliterate everything, run from pan lords and have them ambush you on later levels.
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Dec 18, 2016 16:44
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Shatter + Tornado is such a great combination.
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Dec 18, 2016 18:29
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dpeg posted:I don't think Haste Other would be a good spell: it'd improve the power of your crew considerably. At the expense of coming relatively late, I guess? I could see the effect on a wand, but not on a spell. Thinking about ally buffs is interesting, but I find it hard to come up with ideas that don't fall flat outright. The reason for this, of course, is that spells demand much higher standards than consumables or god powers. It could be a very rare like certain other high level spells and gear. Most games don't involve minions, and most games that do wouldn't actually find the spell. So the odd game in which you find it and can use it would be interesting. Sorta like certain highly specific unrands.
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Dec 18, 2016 19:15
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Araganzar posted:Five. Five scrolls of acquirement. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA So I got a treasure trove on D10 that wanted 7 pots of Haste. That is usually a devil's bargain for a pode but by shoals 4 I had 7 haste pots and a wand of haste. So what the hell, let's try this trove out:  Ahahaha Ahahahahhaaha AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Dec 18, 2016 19:51
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Nice hat NERD
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Dec 18, 2016 20:17
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Are all the rings cursed?
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Dec 18, 2016 20:20
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dpeg posted:I don't think Haste Other would be a good spell: it'd improve the power of your crew considerably. At the expense of coming relatively late, I guess? I could see the effect on a wand, but not on a spell. Thinking about ally buffs is interesting, but I find it hard to come up with ideas that don't fall flat outright. The reason for this, of course, is that spells demand much higher standards than consumables or god powers. In my opinion, you could drop it to level 5 and it would be fairly easy to cast in heavier armors, and there are a lot of gods that provide ally summons (also Hep buddies wouldn't need to have haste-self as a spell). It would also serve a beckoning-like function in getting chaff to stand between you and something really dangerous while you high-tailed it to the stairs. And wands of Haste can already be targeted, unless you're proposing one with a lot more charges to spend on your allies..
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Dec 18, 2016 20:26
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Nothing like finding the amulet "Redeaf" {Gourm rF+++ rC+++ Int-5 Dex+3} when resists are already good, so using harm over it. (Also I don't like getting Brainless from random neqoxec summons and such).
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Dec 18, 2016 21:08
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Speleothing posted:In my opinion, you could drop it to level 5 and it would be fairly easy to cast in heavier armors, and there are a lot of gods that provide ally summons (also Hep buddies wouldn't need to have haste-self as a spell). It would also serve a beckoning-like function in getting chaff to stand between you and something really dangerous while you high-tailed it to the stairs. Re: wands of haste: There's been discussion about removing all of /haste, /heal wounds, /teleportation, and one can hope this will happen before 0.20.
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Dec 18, 2016 23:29
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