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ImpAtom posted:What you stated is not actually meaningfully more different except it has more Luke Skywalker in it, and you conveniently glossed over any sort of details and just went "but it'd be DIFFERENT!!!" What's most apparently different to me is specifically what homullus took out.
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Dec 17, 2016 20:32
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Why is space Che Guevarra in the movie? He felt pretty underutilized IMO.
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Dec 17, 2016 20:33
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Rogue One is written like a Star Wars EU novel. It's full of thin meaningless characters who exist on the sidelines of the 'real' characters and attempts to inject moral ambiguity into the universe but isn't willing to go far enough along that line to maybe make people unhappy so any actual moral greyness is quickly glossed over. It brings back the Death Star and all sorts of meaningless errata stuff like Kyber Crystals and packs itself with small references and cameos to other stuff that basically overtake the film. Every character in it who isn't in the original trilogy is considered unimportant because we know they're not in the other movies. The cantina guy is 'more important' because he is in ANH than Jyn because Jyn isn't in ANH. It's obsessed with minutia and filling in plot holes and has things that only make sense if you're a big ol' Star Wars nerd. I'm pretty surprised Grand Admiral Thrawn didn't show up to be honest. homullus posted:It was definitely convenient to not write an entire screenplay! But the differences are 1) no Death Star or trench run, 2) no faux Vader or faux Emperor, 3) no "undoing" the results of the OT by just making a new Empire vs. a new Rebellion. You literally have a Vader Cult which ends with the creation of Faux Vader. You just want his origin story rather than him being established. (And presumably the Vader cult has a leader so no Emperor-alike is unlikely too.) You also still have Empire vs Republic fights, they're just meaningless false flag operations. So apparently the Empire is still there and still antagonistic so I'm not sure what you're saying is 'undoing it." So I guess your problem is they did the trench run again? ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Dec 17, 2016 |
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Dec 17, 2016 20:34
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It's like a wookiepedia page went through the telepod with a bunch of tv tropes articles and a really good cinematographer.
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Dec 17, 2016 20:36
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K-2 didnt get a blaster for the same reason he didnt have the imperial logo removed. He was supposed to be undercover. Wasnt he some sort of labor bot?
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Dec 17, 2016 20:37
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ImpAtom posted:Except, again, we're told specifically he was reprogrammed. Not 'freed' but reprogrammed. (and they screwed it up!) And droids are manufactured instead of born, and repaired instead of recovered. quote:Oh, so he's so untrusting that he won't give his closest companion a weapon even in dangerous situations but will trust someone he is explicitly intending to betray with one. That certainly makes sense. Considering she's also important to getting Saw to join the rebels (at that point their main hope) sure. quote:K2 calls Cassian out and Cassian tells him to shut up and leave him alone.It is not remotely the same dynamic. Unlike Cass's relation with other people calling him out, where he gets on his knees and apologizes.
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Dec 17, 2016 20:38
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I saw it opening day, but neglected to talk about it until now because of work. I haven't seen any of Edwards' previous films, so I feel like that may have coloured some peoples' interpretation of this film, because I loved the characters. I liked Galen, I liked Krennic, I liked Jyn, I liked them all. The characters really were portrayed very similarly to old war movies, where each has their quirk but they're part of a functional team. Some things I noted: 1) The shot where the AT-AT appears through the mist is loving amazing. The music dims and there's this sense of dread. 2) I love that like war movies, tons of people die. The deaths felt meaningful and each served a narrative purpose. 3) I legit thought they hired a lookalike for Tarkin. CGI was excellent. 4) Probably my favourite part was the time the movie took to explain all the ways being in a war causes you to lose your moral center. When Cassian kills the informant, there's a very slight tinge in his facial expression. It distinctly shows that he's done this type of thing a number of times and that it's causing him emotional distress. It leads very nicely into his backing out of the assassination. Later in the movie we see the rebels cowardly voting against stopping the death ball. After that, Cassian again brings attention to the fact that all of the rebels have done things they despise. War corrupts and this movie showed that aspect very nicely. 5) The Vader scene was incredible. In a way it sort of formed a connective tissue between the prequel force and the original force. There was lots of force throwing people around in a flashy, prequel-y way, but there was also Vader's slow walk and muted saber movements. Great scene to show exactly how terrifying a Jedi would be to Joe Henchman. Honestly, this was a great war film and might be a top 3 star war for me. Friendly Factory fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Dec 17, 2016 |
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Dec 17, 2016 20:46
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ImpAtom posted:You literally have a Vader Cult which ends with the creation of Faux Vader. You just want his origin story rather than him being established. (And presumably the Vader cult has a leader so no Emperor-alike is unlikely too.) Yeah, my thing also had space ships in it, what's up with that? More slavish copying of the OT! It's basically the same, right? But no, you are imagining my desires and not reading my words. There are two states at peace in what I typed out, as opposed to a state and a rebellion (ANH) or two states antagonistic toward each other (TFA). The false flag operations by the Vader cult are carried out against both states and by neither (since they are trying to start a war). I wrote there was no faux-Emperor, but you have insisted that there is a leader of the Vader-cult and also that such a leader is therefore like the Emperor; this is your invention and desire, not mine. What I wanted, to the extent that I want any of what I typed, is a status quo that is a plausible outcome of Episode VI. What I wrote is a film that touches on the authoritarian desire and the democratic desire and the anarchist desire, by taking place in a galaxy with planets that have chosen a status. It also touches on the deification of pretty bad people like Anakin Skywalker by having a Vader cult. There's still the Force and some spaceships and I guess some lazerswordsmen, but there is no superweapon, no evil duo, no mysteriously missing central cast or awkwardness with the existing one. What I wrote does have the creation of a new antagonist, but you imagined him as a faux Vader; he need not be that either. The only thing I wrote that he has in common with Vader is a lazersword, though obviously he worships Vader so maybe that's what you were assuming he looked like? iono.
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Dec 17, 2016 20:59
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Thinkin on it this afternoon, I feel like by not keeping Saw Guerrera around through the entire movie they missed a huge opportunity to kickstart some character conflicts and basic motivations. Have the man calling out the shots for this ragtag crew and have all these characters reluctantly follow his orders. He's got their backs against the walls since they're locked up in his prison, so have Saw give them a "if you want your freedom do what I say" incentive. Some interesting conflicts could arise since Cassian essentially agrees with his ideologies but hates his extremist methods. Jyn would need to weigh her allegiance to him as a caretaker and mentor versus his ideologies. Have him secretly set up the mission to assassinate her father, casting her role in the whole affair in doubt and arming her a sense of betrayal. Then have Saw do something careless by selfishly putting the lives of the entire crew in danger, solidifying their resentment and propelling them to support the more tempered cause of the alliance. poo poo it seems obvious when I write it out and I can't help but feel like they had bigger plans for Saw that got canned somewhere along the way.
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Dec 17, 2016 21:11
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AwwJeah posted:Thinkin on it this afternoon, I feel like by not keeping Saw Guerrera around through the entire movie they missed a huge opportunity to kickstart some character conflicts and basic motivations. Have the man calling out the shots for this ragtag crew and have all these characters reluctantly follow his orders. I mean, you're basically describing his role in the series prior to the film.
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Dec 17, 2016 21:13
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Is he in the other prequels?
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Dec 17, 2016 21:15
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Is he in the other prequels? Yeah, he was introduced in the Star Wars Clone Wars cartoon and is mentioned in Rebels. His position is basically the same but younger and more influential to the plot; dudes a radical who goes beyond what rebels think is worth doing, ends up losing his sister, disappears [to the island at the beginning of the film, apparently].
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Dec 17, 2016 21:19
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I Absolutely loved CGI Tarkin and my wife who is not a Star Wars fan otherwise pretty brilliant was unsure if it was a real person, so much so she asked me after the movie. Leia was somewhat less convincing but everyone started cheering when she came on and pretty much made up for it I apologize in advance for these wrong opinions
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Dec 17, 2016 21:23
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bewbies posted:I Absolutely loved CGI Tarkin and my wife who is not a Star Wars fan otherwise pretty brilliant was unsure if it was a real person, so much so she asked me after the movie. Ya man, when I told my friend that Peter Cushing passed away in 1994 she was shocked. She did not perceive Tarkin as a CGI character at all. I thought the effect was brilliantly done and spectacular, but I'm unsure if it'll stand the test of time.
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Dec 17, 2016 21:31
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Neurolimal posted:I mean, you're basically describing his role in the series prior to the film. As a person who hasn't ever delved into the EU stuff, this is cool but frustrating since I knew as soon as he died that if I wanted to learn anything about him I was going to have to buy into some product outside of the movie itself. I think it'd be interesting to see Saw and the leaders of the alliance meet together and but-heads over whose methodologies are the most effective for carrying out the mission at hand. Feels like he was setup to be an interesting and divisive catalyst but instead he's just an eccentric paranoid weirdo who dies unceremoniously before he contributes anything of worth to the story at large. AwwJeah fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Dec 17, 2016 |
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Dec 17, 2016 21:33
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I will I say I think the uncanny valley for CGI Tarkin kind of works at making him seem menacing.
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Dec 17, 2016 21:33
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I didn't have a problem with CGI Tarkin, but then again I wouldn't have minded if they re-cast the role and had Charles Dance step in or something. I feel he is "close enough"
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Dec 17, 2016 21:39
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AwwJeah posted:As a person who hasn't ever delved into the EU stuff, this is cool but frustrating since I knew as soon as he died that if I wanted to learn anything about him I was going to have to buy into some product outside of the movie itself. It seems that Jyn was more of a terrorist, giving him more of a role, but that's one of the things lost in the re-shoots. I'm interested to see if there is enough to cobble together a sort of director's cut of what was originally intended, or if the need for effects work in something like this makes that impossible.
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Dec 17, 2016 21:50
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This movie is the "Lower Decks" of Star Wars. A bunch of characters we don't care about or know doing things around and involving people and places we know and care about. Both work excellently as a one-off "episode".
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Dec 17, 2016 21:51
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I am conflicted about CGI Tarkin. Technically, it was reasonably close but still obviously fake when reading their expressions and body language, and that was very distracting. However, the distraction issues might not have mattered enough if I wasn't already struggling with being so poorly invested in the film. Basically, seemed to the point where they can either get away with it or not get away with it depending on how well everything else is being done for the viewer.
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Dec 17, 2016 21:58
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I spent most of the scenes he was in watching the animation, which was really distracting.
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Dec 17, 2016 22:05
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I have two thoughts on the film: 1) The film as a whole was a great depiction of war and the hell it brings. The battle on the ground at Scarif felt like something out of a World War II battle, just destruction left and right. Edwards definitely lived up to his promise of capturing a different theater of war, and each location felt very much alive. 2) The standout scene of the movie was Vader cutting everyone up effortlessly, that was easily the most ruthless display of the force ever depicted in the series. I was legit scared that the one rebel wasn't going to get the plans out in time! It was a good movie
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Dec 17, 2016 22:23
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These star wars movies man... could have used a re-write.
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Dec 17, 2016 22:38
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Guys has there been an extensive discussion yet of whether the droid character has agency in this film
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Dec 17, 2016 22:51
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Man, this was a downbeat movie. I don't think that's a bad thing at all, but I was surprised they went as far as they did. There were some little kids sitting in front of me who definitely were not expecting literally everyone to die at the end instead of being rescued at the last minute.Carlosologist posted:I have two thoughts on the film: I thought the Vader bits were the weakest part of the movie. He had no personality and it all seemed like something out of a Force Unleashed video game at the end. And I was surprised to see James Earl Jones listed in the end credits because the voice really felt really off to me. gfarrell80 posted:These star wars movies man... could have used a re-write. Cyclomatic posted:I am conflicted about CGI Tarkin. Technically, it was reasonably close but still obviously fake when reading their expressions and body language, and that was very distracting. However, the distraction issues might not have mattered enough if I wasn't already struggling with being so poorly invested in the film. I think there's an element of nocebo effect there, where people want it to look bad so they convince themselves it does. Then again it's been ages since I watched the original film. I think a lot of people are gonna be mad in 2018 either because Han and Lando don't look like Harrison Ford and Billy D Williams, or because the actors have been made to look too much like them and it's weird.
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Dec 17, 2016 23:05
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They really should have made the Han Solo film all CGI like Tintin with realistic versions of the younger characters.
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Dec 17, 2016 23:12
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I really liked all of the Vader stuff especially the end scene it really adds a lot to the opening of New Hope
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Dec 17, 2016 23:19
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Overall I loved it, but I had a few minor gripes: The soundtrack was generic and lacklustre. The original score is iconic for a reason. If you're going to have callbacks to anything, have callbacks to that. I know John Williams is getting old, but whoever they got to fill in was not up to the task. I'm totally fine with ditching the opening crawl and fanfare for the non-episoded films (the crawl was always cheesy and dumb anyway) but the opening especially suffered from the lack of John Williams. Vader seemed off. The voice felt wrong, especially. Why do they keep making new ship designs, especially for the shuttles? The old Lamba shuttle is an iconic design that holds up really well and I don't get why they felt the need to make new variants for no real reason. Same with the weird flat TIE Fighters. Just use TIE Interceptors, christ. Do they really need 5 new ship designs they can sell LEGO models of for every movie? All very minor quibbles really. Best Star Wars Film since the '80s.
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Dec 17, 2016 23:30
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Entropic posted:
I disagree. we know vaders character inside and out but this made Darth Vader is terrifying again and i liked that. vader has basically become a teddy bear in pop culture and it was cool to see him not neutered and seem him be a loving horror movie monster. there is a reason why the rebels fear him and why you dont want him on your rear end.
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Dec 17, 2016 23:37
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Entropic posted:Do they really need 5 new ship designs they can sell LEGO models of for every movie? Yes, it's exactly this - there's a LEGO store in the mall near the movie theater I saw this at last night, and it was full of R1 stuff. 'Black badass shuttle craft' wouldn't be the set I'd want as a kid though... Movie was good enough, but I couldn't help thinking that the scale was all wrong...the battle on the island planet felt like it had maybe 500 people involved with a couple siege pieces, pretty sad for a galaxy of trillions. Star Wars has always had this problem for me, gotta give it to Episode 1 for trying to do bigger scale battle scenes (even if it didn't really work as good cinema). I really liked how by the end everyone was dead. I don't want a sequel to this movie and good on them for making it clear that this is a one-off. I'd love it if they made some of these vignette-type SW movies that *didn't* tell some epic grand story that the fate of the galaxy revolves around. Give me a story about Throrble the smuggler on Zartanis IX and show me some cool SW poo poo while doing it, just don't make him inadvertently save Luke Skywalker's life or something. That was a major problem with the old EU iirc, every minor character was either a secret Jedi or ended up being ultra-important to Luke/Han/Leia/the galaxy. Maybe the live action SW show will scratch that itch if it ever gets going.
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Dec 17, 2016 23:42
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I'm surprised how much I didn't like about the movie for the first two thirds that suddenly improved by the end: - The music was too on-the-nose and sounded like a small orchestra - Too many setting changes that didn't need to be there - Objectives weren't clear in scenes - Hammy acting/directing for scenes that should have been emotional - Action directing was kinda boring - Distractingly shoehorned cameos - Too much verbal exposition But almost everything get better once they get to Beach Planet: - Objectives are clear - One planet, but with different locations that are clearly interconnected - Action was actually pretty awesome - Music seemed to punch up things the right amount - The story took risks and went in new directions (well, risky and new for a Star Wars movie at least)
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Dec 17, 2016 23:43
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Entropic posted:I know John Williams is getting old, but whoever they got to fill in was not up to the task.
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Dec 17, 2016 23:44
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Raxivace posted:Michael Giacchino, the guy who did the scores for Lost, Star Trek Beyond, Up, Tomorrowland, Cloverfield, Jurassic World etc. Didn't Giacchino score the movie over like a month or 2?
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Dec 17, 2016 23:48
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jisforjosh posted:Didn't Giacchino score the movie over like a month or 2?
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Dec 17, 2016 23:50
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I don't know if I just don't notice it with other movies, bit it's kind of surprising how much stuff from the trailers for Rogue One didn't make it into the final cut of the movie.
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Dec 17, 2016 23:52
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I am listening to the sound track right now. Coming out of the showing I could only really think of Saw's theme and the music that played at the very end during Vader's rampage was being memorable. I really liked the weird instrumental sound they played for Saw's group. However, listening to it I actually really like a lot of the music  "Your Father Would Be Proud" "Hope" "The Imperial Suite" "Confrontation on Eadu" "Trust Goes Both Ways" "Jyn Erso & Hope Suite" "The Master Switch" There some very sad & more emotion filled stings from the William's score, but a lot of it is just new stuff thats pretty good!
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Dec 17, 2016 23:52
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Entropic posted:Man, this was a downbeat movie. I don't think that's a bad thing at all, but I was surprised they went as far as they did. There were some little kids sitting in front of me who definitely were not expecting literally everyone to die at the end instead of being rescued at the last minute. I'm a little to young to remember but I'm told when people left after watching ESB, everyone was quiet and looked down. quote:It's surprising to me that people are calling out the resurrected Peter Cushing stuff as weird and uncanny valley looking. I had the opposite reaction, where I found it slightly unsettling how seamless it was. quote:I think a lot of people are gonna be mad in 2018 either because Han and Lando don't look like Harrison Ford and Billy D Williams, or because the actors have been made to look too much like them and it's weird.
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Dec 17, 2016 23:53
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Entropic posted:I don't know if I just don't notice it with other movies, bit it's kind of surprising how much stuff from the trailers for Rogue One didn't make it into the final cut of the movie.
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Dec 17, 2016 23:53
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Raxivace posted:Well it's more noticeable here, I think, since the whole "I REBEL!!!!!" line was a point of contention for a few weeks. That, Saw's "what will you do when they catch you" bit, "can you be trusted without your shackles", the TIE Fighter coming up right in front of Jyn, Jyn running towards the AT-ATs carrying the plans, and that shot of Jyn in Imperial garb with the halway lighting up behind her.. it seems like a ton of stuff to change, which makes me wonder how far they were even into the process of editing when they made the first trailer.
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Dec 17, 2016 23:57
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I wish I had liked this more. I really loved Force Awakens but I was really, honestly bored for most of this movie until the final 30 mins. The only good performances were (I thought) Mads and Ben Mendelsohn. Would have liked to see more of both of them. The protagonists were all cardboard cutouts, painted with one or two character traits until said trait was used and/or subverted at the end. Absolutely no one in the cast has an ounce of the charisma Ridley, Issaac, or Boyega possess. Also, Forest Whitaker, a TRULY fine actor, should just take this as a sign to stay away from sci-fi movies. He just doesn't do well in them. I thought he was embarrassingly bad. I think I'm about done with sarcastic robots, too. CGI Tarkin looked like Jim Carrey from his crappy Christmas Carol movie. I DID think this was the best space battle of any Star Wars movie, which is usually my least favorite part of them. This one had clear goals, was shot excitingly and coherently, and did interesting new things. I really dug that. I'm still glad they're doing these spin-off movies, and I'll be there for the next one. This was just more "miss" than "hit" for me.
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