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Lemon-Lime posted:I'm pretty sure no Gundam in the show to date has had come with AV system. Barbatos had to have it installed from a salvaged mobile worker; Gusion took its AV from a Man Rodi; Kimaris, Vidar and the two spinoff manga Gundams don't have AV at all. Again, they specifically mention in Season 1 that Gundams were designed for A-V systems. It is their big advantage in addition to the 2 Ahab Reactors. Edit: In fact the canonical reason that IBO has mobile suits instead of mobile armors is because the A-V system works best when you have a humanoid body because the A-V system basically makes the MS into your body. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 16:58
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Lemon-Lime posted:Gundams don't have AV systems. The entire AV discussion has nothing to do with the age of Gjallarhorn's founders. Episode 22 (I believe) has McGillis talking with Galileo about cyborging Ein. He talks about how lovely the calamity war was, how Gjallerhorn was formed by the economic blocks to stop it, and how their method of doing so involved creating 72 Gundams and the system that would make them unstoppable. He goes on to wax poetic about how the founders gave up their humanity to save the world, and Galileo comments on the irony that the system used to put an end to the war is now a stigmatized relic that a lot of people point to as a cause of the war. AV was specifically designed for the Gundams. You are correct that none have had cockpits with it built in, but that seems a result of centuries of stigma about the system more than anything.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:05
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Caros posted:Episode 22 (I believe) has McGillis talking with Galileo about cyborging Ein. He talks about how lovely the calamity war was, how Gjallerhorn was formed by the economic blocks to stop it, and how their method of doing so involved creating 72 Gundams and the system that would make them unstoppable. I checked ep 22 and yeah, that scene is really interesting now that we know about the MA. You're a little off on what McGillis said; the economic blocks came together to created the AV system and the gundam frames to utilize them, but the ones who created Gjallarhorn afterwards were cited as the saviors who gave up their humanity, aka the remaining pilots, not the economy blocks. Since we know that the government at the time was destroyed after the Calamity War, it's looking more and more like the economic blocks took advantage of and used child soldiers to beat the MA, and then those kids turned around and said no, we're in charge now. It hasn't been specified what caused the fall of the old guard; before the MA reveal I assumed that the Calamity War just ruined all sides to the point where Gjallarhorn was created as a response to a lack of leadership. It might be that the original Gjallarhorn were the ones who caused the fall and then claimed power for themselves. If so, Tekkadan has more in common with OG Gjallarhorn than current Gjallarhorn does; no wonder McGillis supports them.
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Dec 15, 2016 20:04
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Yeah, so that pretty much means that the families were unconventional groups like tekkadan and the turbines that slowly warped into an aristocracy.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:46
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The Kimaris is confirmed not to have an Alaya-Vijnana System in either of its forms. The Gundam Vidar's manual explicitly says that it's got a weird special system, but it's not that particular kind of weird. Given that its Season 1 version was, hands-down, the single best-preserved Gundam we've ever seen, this was likely a deliberate choice to keep the bodies of its aristocratic pilots pure. The fact that it was a museum piece that hadn't been used for combat in ages might have also had something to do with it - it would be a little inconvenient to have to have the help augmented every time you wheeled it out for a memorial ceremony.
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Dec 16, 2016 00:31
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Darth Walrus posted:The Kimaris is confirmed not to have an Alaya-Vijnana System in either of its forms. The Gundam Vidar's manual explicitly says that it's got a weird special system, but it's not that particular kind of weird. Given that its Season 1 version was, hands-down, the single best-preserved Gundam we've ever seen, this was likely a deliberate choice to keep the bodies of its aristocratic pilots pure. The fact that it was a museum piece that hadn't been used for combat in ages might have also had something to do with it - it would be a little inconvenient to have to have the help augmented every time you wheeled it out for a memorial ceremony. That's interesting about the Kimaris and a good point regarding how well it was preserved, though I find it kinda suspicious that it doesn't have an AV system considering that the gundams were made to take advantage of it. Maybe it had one originally but it got gutted early on when opinions turned on that technology? I guess we'll see with the Flaurus. On a different topic, did the show mention what McGillis originally wanted with Hashmal?
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Dec 16, 2016 01:08
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Adel posted:That's interesting about the Kimaris and a good point regarding how well it was preserved, though I find it kinda suspicious that it doesn't have an AV system considering that the gundams were made to take advantage of it. Maybe it had one originally but it got gutted early on when opinions turned on that technology? I guess we'll see with the Flaurus. As far as we know, he didnt want it but knew it was dangerous and didnt want a bunch of dumb kids turning it on. This is Gundam, so the adults are dumb too.
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Dec 16, 2016 01:15
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KoB posted:As far as we know, he didnt want it but knew it was dangerous and didnt want a bunch of dumb kids turning it on. This is Gundam, so the adults are dumb too. He inferred that he had plans for it that didn't involve destroying it. I suspect the wreckage will mysteriously disappear once Mikazuki is done doing his thing.
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Dec 16, 2016 01:22
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Adel posted:That's interesting about the Kimaris and a good point regarding how well it was preserved, though I find it kinda suspicious that it doesn't have an AV system considering that the gundams were made to take advantage of it. Maybe it had one originally but it got gutted early on when opinions turned on that technology? I guess we'll see with the Flaurus. Given the huge prejudice against augmentation of any sort shown in season 1(to the point where Gaelio is nauseous at the very concept of whiskers) and the fact that it's been shown to be pretty easy to slot out cockpit blocks in mobile suits by virtue of the Tekkadan mechanic crew managing to basically slap a mobile worker cockpit into Barbatos on the fly and have it work fine, I'd lay dollars to donuts that the original Calamity War version of the Kimaris had AV like all the other Gundams but the Bauduins swapped it out for a normal cockpit at some point.
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Dec 16, 2016 03:48
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Kanos posted:Given the huge prejudice against augmentation of any sort shown in season 1(to the point where Gaelio is nauseous at the very concept of whiskers) and the fact that it's been shown to be pretty easy to slot out cockpit blocks in mobile suits by virtue of the Tekkadan mechanic crew managing to basically slap a mobile worker cockpit into Barbatos on the fly and have it work fine, I'd lay dollars to donuts that the original Calamity War version of the Kimaris had AV like all the other Gundams but the Bauduins swapped it out for a normal cockpit at some point. That sounds about right to me too. There's 350-odd years of owning the thing in the family, you can't tell me someone didn't take it for a spin like it was their dad's muscle car.
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Dec 16, 2016 04:55
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So I guess that answers a couple of open questions. McGillis is, indeed, treating Tekkadan just like every other one of his allies, and Gaelio is still the same old Gaelio - none too bright, way too wedded to a broken system, and yet fundamentally good-hearted and willing to do the right thing. Also, the ending and next episode preview were hype as gently caress in two very different ways - looks like both the Barbatos and McGillis are going to let their inner monsters out to play a little. Iok, meanwhile, seems to be reaching for the Yazan Gable 'unkillable force of indiscriminate destruction' award completely by accident. Seriously, his ability to catastrophically gently caress things up is starting to verge on the supernatural. I look forward to him saving the world at the end of the series by switching sides to McGillis and causing all of his new boss's plans to fall apart in a matter of seconds.
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Dec 18, 2016 13:40
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I remember at the start of the season there was a theory that Iok would somehow be the key to making everything good again. Now it seems he might be more destructive then a god drat mobile armour due to how unbelievably stupid he is.
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Dec 18, 2016 14:08
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Trans-Mika?!
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Dec 18, 2016 14:11
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I am glad that Ride is still alive. Also it looks like the next episode will be the end of the mobile armour as the tension seems to be back around political dealings rather then AI monsters.
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Dec 18, 2016 14:20
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Huh. It seems like a bad sign when your mobile suit starts crying blood along with you, Mika.
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Dec 18, 2016 15:31
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Am I crazy or did that axe thrown by Chad feel like a gigs drill breaker reference? Just the motion it took I mean.
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Dec 18, 2016 16:44
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Caros posted:Am I crazy or did that axe thrown by Chad feel like a gigs drill breaker reference? Just the motion it took I mean. I think it's just that it's not an uncommon method of depicting a spinning, fast-moving object in anime. Speaking of Chad, it was really neat to see so many of the Tekkadan third-stringers get a chance to be cool and useful this episode. Seriously, did anyone think he'd pull off something that crazy and make it out without a scratch?
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Dec 18, 2016 16:49
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I didn't like that this episode ended the exact same way the last one did. Stuff happened, yes, but honestly it feels a little weird seeing Ride wind up in the exact same position a week later.
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Dec 18, 2016 16:50
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The scene with the plumas getting shot seems to be the first obvious reuse of footage. Which is great for an action show. Some one will probably point out some where in the first season where footage was reused but this episode was the first time it was glaringly obvious. Really it seems that the whole episode was a bit on the budget side. All the scenes of them standing around a radio with the person talking off screen. MS pilots grimly staring at each other. Clouds of dust obscuring the main action. On the other hand, Galaxy Cannon!
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Dec 18, 2016 17:45
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Iok you... dumb dumb motherfucker.
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Dec 18, 2016 17:45
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Shiden is the Gai of Tekkadan Nadesico.
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Dec 18, 2016 18:10
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I'm really ready for this aside to end and there's no reason it couldn't have this episode. This is dragging.
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Dec 18, 2016 19:02
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Zebulon posted:Huh. It seems like a bad sign when your mobile suit starts crying blood along with you, Mika.  
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Dec 18, 2016 19:03
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Oh Snapple! posted:I'm really ready for this aside to end and there's no reason it couldn't have this episode. This is dragging. I frankly liked it? It built up Mika and Orga some, did some fleshing out on others, and showed off the motherfucking Flauros. Also why with 72 suits we only ended with 7 families... fighting dragonangels is not for the weak of will and faint of heart
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Dec 18, 2016 19:15
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We're still only less than halfway through the season if you can believe it.
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Dec 18, 2016 19:19
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AtomikKrab posted:I frankly liked it? It built up Mika and Orga some, did some fleshing out on others, and showed off the motherfucking Flauros. Because it ended the exact same way the last episode did. I don't know why it bugs me as badly as it does, but that really bugs me.
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Dec 18, 2016 19:39
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Yeah that very last image of the episode preview makes me think McGillis is going to do something bad soon.
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Dec 18, 2016 20:41
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Lol at Yamagi being all professional while sitting in Shino's lap.
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Dec 18, 2016 20:51
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Either McGillis is about to do something bad or he's mildly upset that that Order of the Whatever is about to get thieved by Tekkadan and their pissed-off teenager in the dedicated MA killer. Also Flauros is cool. Hopefully Yamagi is a permanent fixture and was listed in the design specs. Psycho Landlord fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Dec 18, 2016 |
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Dec 18, 2016 20:54
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I hope Mika becomes the world's newest member of nobility.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:10
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I think what made this episode feel so stagnant is that they took back what the previous episode promised and then rushed through the actual plot parts so that the episode ended with any progress made being offset by the regressive stuff. -Mika's first encounter with the MA: he immediately get benched, just for them to re-set up the fight at the last second. -Gaelio vs McGillis: a big fat nothing, other than Gaelio showing his cards to McGillis just to get in an  . Good job you idiot, now when you for reals fight him, he'll have already accounted for it in his plans. -Iok's building momentum of making things worse gets completely neutered when Julieta puts him in timeout and he goes from "revenge at the cost of my life" to "nevermind Julieta can do it instead  " in 1 minute.-Orga's moment of caution happened so quickly with no consequence to anything that it was very unsatisfying. -Akihiro jobbing so hard that you could've taken him out of the episode and changed nothing. -Ride repeating everything he did last episode basically beat for beat. That said, despite my complaining, there were some cool moments. -The MA's effect on the AV system raises more questions. The AV system was made after the MAs were, so was Hashmal built later and sent out with upgraded software? Or are the MAs capable of learning (  ) and figured out a way to counter the AV system on their own? Or is it possible to update the MAs and if that's the case why not update them to stop killing people? Or is the response not caused by the MA itself, but the gundam frames literally refusing to fight them unless they're at maximum synchro with their pilot?-Julieta's expression when Iok closed the cockpit hatch on her was amazing. -Everything Flauros. The transformation sequence, the 3 perspective shots on the cannon firing, Shino piloting like he's in a super robot show, Yamagi having the best/worst moment of his life, I loved it all. I wish the whole ep had been dedicated to just this.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:10
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Adel posted:-The MA's effect on the AV system raises more questions. The AV system was made after the MAs were, so was Hashmal built later and sent out with upgraded software? Or are the MAs capable of learning ( The cutout appeared to be all on the Gundam side. It seemed like they explained this as the Gundams releasing some safety interlocks for maximum performance upon encountering the Mobile Armor, which caused an increase in the rate of data exchange with the pilot over the A-V link, and the A-V link on the Gundams was shutting down abruptly so that the pilot won't suffer a stroke like Mika did in Edmonton.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:14
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Adel posted:Or is the response not caused by the MA itself, but the gundam frames literally refusing to fight them unless they're at maximum synchro with their pilot? Pretty sure it's this. More than likely the AV systems being used in the current generation frame aren't up to Calamity War snuff, since they're all Mobile Worker patch jobs, and what's more nobody but Mika has ever fought at full spec and no one is used to it, so I think it's more of an adjustment shock situation than it is the MA or Frame actively attempting to kill pilots. And judging by how Hashmal casually dispatched everyone there at the end, I get the feeling full throttle might be necessary to actually put it down.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:17
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Midjack posted:The cutout appeared to be all on the Gundam side. It seemed like they explained this as the Gundams releasing some safety interlocks for maximum performance upon encountering the Mobile Armor, which caused an increase in the rate of data exchange with the pilot over the A-V link, and the A-V link on the Gundams was shutting down abruptly so that the pilot won't suffer a stroke like Mika did in Edmonton. That seems to be the case. It's not the MA doing anything, purely the Gundam's software reacting to the presence of a MA by going to full power everything and the AV system trying to avoid killing the pilot when that happens, causing what amounts to a system crash due to the conflict.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:18
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An important part of this episode was Orga getting a good look at just how messed up his relationship with Mika is.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:22
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Hunt11 posted:An important part of this episode was Orga getting a good look at just how messed up his relationship with Mika is. And Mika going against Orga's orders.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:29
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Psycho Landlord posted:Pretty sure it's this. More than likely the AV systems being used in the current generation frame aren't up to Calamity War snuff, since they're all Mobile Worker patch jobs, and what's more nobody but Mika has ever fought at full spec and no one is used to it, so I think it's more of an adjustment shock situation than it is the MA or Frame actively attempting to kill pilots. I'm idly wondering if the mid/late-season upgrade is gonna be Mikazuki getting a fourth Whisker. I'm guessing the safety cutout is from looking at the interface and deeming there's not enough bandwidth across two or three Whiskers.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:48
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Ah ok, thank you for clearing that up for me; Daisuke's app is such garbo that scrubbing through an episode to rewatch a scene is impossible. And that's a good point about the current AV hardware being poo poo compare to what they had during the Calamity War, that would definition explain why the systems are getting overloaded.Hunt11 posted:An important part of this episode was Orga getting a good look at just how messed up his relationship with Mika is. It was chilling just how casually Mika explained it, too; it's like he's turned himself into human debris. And since there's no way Mika isn't coming out of the upcoming fight without impairing his body further, I hope we see more of a reaction from Orga beyond being mortified but doing nothing. If the show avoids having Orga take any kind of responsibility (either by changing their relationship for the better or just going all in on Mika being his weapon) it'll be disappointing as gently caress.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:50
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Guy Goodbody posted:Lol at Yamagi being all professional while sitting in Shino's lap. And blushing a lot. 
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Dec 18, 2016 21:57
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I'm kind of expecting Mika to get royally hosed up and McGillis basically obligated to use the full resources of Gjallerhorn's medical teams to try and fix him. Be it out of simple obligation for them helping him or reverence for Mika managing to kill the mobile armor.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:40
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