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Waffles Inc. posted:the moment you should realize R1 is disingenuous about its tone is when they treat the street fight as a very serious affair where the storm troopers are a threat to having the quippy robot catch a grenade and make a joke and murder 6 storm troopers Sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't. I don't see why that is super damning.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:03
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Waffles Inc. posted:the moment you should realize R1 is disingenuous about its tone is when they treat the street fight as a very serious affair where the storm troopers are a threat to having the quippy robot catch a grenade and make a joke and murder 6 storm troopers Uh. Humans make quips about killing humans in war. Humor helps.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:04
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Waffles Inc. posted:the moment you should realize R1 is disingenuous about its tone is when they treat the street fight as a very serious affair where the storm troopers are a threat to having the quippy robot catch a grenade and make a joke and murder 6 storm troopers Ah, I get it now, this is your vengeance for all the people ragging on the Lucas prequels. The circle is complete, the Yin to Tezzor's Yang has arrived. To more seriously answer your question: its gallows humor, something very much in line with a movie about terrorists. EDIT: Also, I'm all about shipping Baze and Chirrut. The names even sound like Bae and Cherub a little bit. This movie woulda been 10/10 if they were bold enough to ostensibly be a couple and Jyn was a current terrorist in league with Saw.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:08
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Soul Glo posted:Also p messed up to lay the murder of Padme on her children, imo* nah, padme and anakin are a metaphor for the republic (the secret marriage of well-meaning but ineffectual democracy to violent, barely controlled anger) and padme's death is symbolic of the republic's 'death' and rebirth as the Empire (as anakin 'remarries' the emperor's fascism)
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Dec 19, 2016 03:09
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veni veni veni posted:Sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't. I don't see why that is super damning. It's damning because it was obviously trying to be a meditation on extremism and sins of the father and whether the ends justify the means but instead it's a totally confused mess. It's unclear what the film is about. I think the plot is mostly clear but this film doesn't know what it's about
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Dec 19, 2016 03:09
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ungulateman posted:nah, padme and anakin are a metaphor for the republic (the secret marriage of well-meaning but ineffectual democracy to violent, barely controlled anger) and padme's death is symbolic of the republic's 'death' and rebirth as the Empire (as anakin 'remarries' the emperor's fascism) Sand is a metaphor for freedom and also kids
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Dec 19, 2016 03:10
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Filthy Casual posted:Ah, I get it now, this is your vengeance for all the people ragging on the Lucas prequels. The circle is complete, the Yin to Tezzor's Yang has arrived. Good lord
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Dec 19, 2016 03:11
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Filthy Casual posted:
I'm not shipping but I genuinely think they were presented as a plausibly-deniable couple.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:11
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MikeJF posted:I'm not shipping but I genuinely think they were presented as a plausibly-deniable couple. I wonder if Chirrut does that "one with the Force" chant at climax.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:13
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ImpAtom posted:... but Rogue One is literally entirely about family drama? I mean the entire Death Star stuff is born entirely from a woman and her estranged father and her trying to come to terms with that legacy? Jyn is drawn into the fight by the prospect of finding her father because the war forced him away from her, and at most we can say the remainder of the film comprises her efforts to grant his dying wish and/or fix his mistakes. But there's no drama here. There's nothing to "come to terms" with. She never believed her father was evil and could've cared less about him being an agent of the Empire; she knew better, because she witnessed him being kidnapped and compelled to do what they wanted. She basically feels the same about her father at the end of the film as she did at the start. The actual conflict for Jyn Erso stems from her relationship with Saw, her other father figure. His utter devotion to the war effort, even at Jyn's expense, is what estranged her from him and from the war itself; at the start of the film she had no cause, no loyalty to any side, nothing to fight for. What the character experiences through the film, through actual first-hand interactions with the war and its soldiers and victims on both sides, slowly molds her into someone who not only can't simply ignore the fight anymore, but is actively fighting and dying for a cause alongside others who share the same convictions. She turns from apathy to devotion, from passivity to action. In other words, she becomes another soldier. She becomes a little more like Saw able to see the merits of his cause, even at the expense of others or herself. It's probably no mistake that she dies exactly like he does. It's one of the ways that this film does come across a bit more like a war movie than the others; warfare is not simply the backdrop of the plot, but something that deeply affects and drives these characters. The prequels and OT are fantasy movies in comparison; the point is to slay the dragon and save the princess, and while we're at it here are some talking animals and forest creatures and comedic sidekicks. The comedic sidekick in Rogue One, meanwhile, gets his chest caved in with gunfire. "Soldier" in other Star Wars films is a class you pick in character creation that gives some stats bonuses without meaning much else. What does it mean to actually be a soldier? What would cause someone to choose that life, to fight for a cause, to die for it? Even Finn in TFA, whose entire plot is about him deserting one side of a war to fight on the side of another, is basically only motivated to do so to save a girl he really likes. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 03:18
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I think CGI Tarkin was dope and is 100% thematically appropriate to have an artificial mask of a dead guy play the leader of the Death Star . Having Leia be the other one to get this treatment is another testament to the moral sacrifice of the war, which was a big thing for the movie that I wish they went a lot further with, but oh well. I am really curious how somebody would enjoy this if they hadn't seen any other Star Wars movies.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:18
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Soul Glo posted:Lando flew in there and hosed the core all up with the Falcon, he didn't trench run and fire torpedoes at an exhaust port that then caused a chain reaction No, the whole point is that the exhaust port leads straight to the main reactor. They blow up the main reactor, and as a result it causes a chain reaction throughout the entire station that destroys everything.The exact same thing is happening in both movies, they just hit the reactor from different vectors.       Not to mention the same thing happens with the Droid Control Ship in Episode I. Must be a whole lot of serendipitous reactor core sabotage going on, I tell you what! Bongo Bill posted:The weakness in the first Death Star being there as a deliberate act of sabotage just slightly shifts the focus of Imperial hubris. Rather than - or, I should say, in addition to - arrogantly assuming that the machine they've built is all-powerful, they arrogantly assume that the person they compelled to design it did so in good faith. Their blind trust in a literal Imperial machine is reflected in blind trust in the mechanisms of the Empire's rule. "In addition to", nothing. This movie fully shifts the focus of the Empire's hubris. Apparently, were it not for the lucky existence of a high-level bleeding heart saboteur, the Death Star would have been all-powerful and indestructible. That goes against the basic philosophy of Star Wars that even the strongest, most ingeniously designed piece of technology must inherently possess a weak point which can be exploited through the strength of human ingenuity.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:21
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I think my favorite moment is when the Rebel fleet is about to jump and then Vader's destroyer jumps in and several of them smash into it. It's fuckin' sick.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:23
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BrianWilly posted:It's one of the ways that this film does come across a bit more like a war movie than the others; warfare is not simply the backdrop of the plot, but something that deeply affects and drives these characters. The prequels and OT are fantasy movies in comparison; the point is to slay the dragon and save the princess, and while we're at it here are some talking animals and forest creatures and comedic sidekicks. The comedic sidekick in Rogue One, meanwhile, gets his chest caved in with gunfire. "Soldier" in other Star Wars films is a class you pick in character creation that gives some stats bonuses without meaning much else. What does it mean to actually be a soldier? What would cause someone to choose that life, to fight for a cause, to die for it? Even Finn in TFA, whose entire plot is about him deserting one side of a war to fight on the side of another, is basically only motivated to do so to save a girl he really likes. Interesting insights here but can I ask what way you feel that warefare "deeply affects and drives" the characters? We don't know why Diego Luna has chosen to fight, and the only reason we hear about the Asian couple fighting is to protect a temple. They decide to join up for essentially no reason. They tag along and then decide to die...why? I mean I can see how the film was attempting to ask "what would cause someone to choose that life", but it completely fails to do so Why did Jin and Diego Luna care about the Alliance to Restore the Republic? What are they rebelling against?
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Dec 19, 2016 03:27
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Waffles Inc. posted:We don't know why Diego Luna has chosen to fight
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Dec 19, 2016 03:29
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I'm pretty sure he explicitly states his reasons at one point late in the film. Ok cool I must have missed it. What is it?
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Dec 19, 2016 03:30
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Waffles Inc. posted:Ok cool I must have missed it. What is it? The Empire killed his parents I think. He talks to Jyn about how they were both made orphans by the Empire and how they reacted differently.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:32
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ImpAtom posted:I really genuinely don't know how anyone can say Rogue One's fan service was LESS calculated when it did things like "long lingering shot of blue milk" and "Hey, look, it's the cantina guys!" I don't think it goes more than five minutes without dropping some incredibly blunt reference or injoke from Keepers of the Whills to Darksaber. If we get a Darksaber anthology story I will likely piss my pants laughing in the theater.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:35
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I'm starting to realize peoples method of watchin the film apparently was to look at it side ways or possibly put their ear to the theater door instead of actually watching it.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:35
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MikeJF posted:The second exploded becuase two ships flew into the core and loving unloaded on it with their main guns until the entire internal structure collapsed. No, Wedge blows up a power regulator, and then Lando shoots literally two torpedoes at the core, which sets off a chain reaction which then makes the entire thing collapse into itself and blow up even more, leading to even more chain reactions which lead to the entire station blowing up minutes later. Ignoring for the moment that the power regulator really only needs to be blown up so Wedge can have his own hero moment, it seems like the only thing the Empire changed about the core design was adding a power regulator. Take away that, and it's just like the old Death Star. You hit the core with a couple of torpedoes and it'll chain react and destroy the entire station, because that's how reactor cores work in Star Wars. Don't try to pretend we were all sitting here in the years before Rogue One came out, musing about the inexplicable destruction method of the first Death Star while comparing it to the totally sensible and logical destruction method of the Death Star II, which was completely different. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 03:36
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I always read the ds1 display as showing explosions chaining down the shaft.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:40
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ShineDog posted:I always read the ds1 display as showing explosions chaining down the shaft. Well, I mean, that's obviously not what it's showing, so.... This is all orthogonal to my main objection anyway, but whatever.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:44
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I didn't notice the blue milk. 
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Dec 19, 2016 03:46
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the rebellion starts in the ashes of jedda? jesus gently caress the amount of selling out to arabs in this movie is to the point of being absolutely disgusting. whatever happened to the bothans? disney really did their best to kill this franchise. don't spend your money, I'm glad I didn't (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 19, 2016 03:48
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I always assumed the second Death Star was vulnerable because it was still under construction.JollyPubJerk posted:whatever happened to the bothans?
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Dec 19, 2016 03:50
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JollyPubJerk posted:the rebellion starts in the ashes of jedda? 
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Dec 19, 2016 03:50
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JollyPubJerk posted:the rebellion starts in the ashes of jedda? source your quotes
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Dec 19, 2016 03:52
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JollyPubJerk posted:the rebellion starts in the ashes of jedda? I don't know what franchise you've been watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCrxKbJ1ayc
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Dec 19, 2016 03:52
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I always assumed the second Death Star was vulnerable because it was still under construction. Was it? Makes sense, just like the second death star still being under construction, hence vulnerable cause they got to the power core.. This movie? Disgusting sellout. It's not even hidden
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Dec 19, 2016 03:53
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The Death Star was literally an inside job
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Dec 19, 2016 03:57
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JollyPubJerk posted:Was it? Makes sense, just like the second death star still being under construction, hence vulnerable cause they got to the power core.. Luke has always been a religious zealot who kills imperialists, OP The empire are analogous to the US because in reality we are them. The Death Star is atomic bombs. This movie would have been even better if it wholly embraced (or embraced at all really) the rebellion as the terrorists they are instead of simply alluding to it
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Dec 19, 2016 04:00
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General Dog posted:I think my favorite moment is when the Rebel fleet is about to jump and then Vader's destroyer jumps in and several of them smash into it. It's fuckin' sick. It was such a crushingly brutal  move. It reinforces how unstoppable Vader is as an enforcer, like as soon as he shows up he's just loving your poo poo up left and right, no matter how safe you think you are. Entropic posted:I didn't notice the blue milk. Gonna be honest, I didn't notice the blue milk, or any of the "obvious" callbacks or fan service that people are complaining about, beyond a few recycled lines (I have a bad feeling about this, etc). I guess I haven't seen the OT enough times. When Jyn bumps into the Elephant Man guy in Jedha I knew it had to be some kind of callback because they linger on him, but I couldn't have told you anything beyond that.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:01
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Waffles Inc. posted:Luke has always been a religious zealot who kills imperialists, OP I'm wholly aware, the problem I have with it is when they literally took it to misspellings of real places on earth for the extent of their allusions. They literally had a ship ram into a destroyer, which crashed into another destroyer. These things aren't accidents. Christ. JollyPubJerk fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 04:05
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Rap Record Hoarder posted:It was such a crushingly brutal Yeah, the movie conjures a sense of dread when Vader shows up that sort of reminds me of when the Nazgul show up in LOTR.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:07
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JollyPubJerk posted:I'm wholly aware, the problem I have with it is when they literally took it to misspellings of real places on earth for the extent of their allusions. Dark Father
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Dec 19, 2016 04:09
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Just got back from seeing it. That was excellent, and was in a lot of aspects what I was hoping TFA would be. I mean, they're very different movies trying to do different things, but it just hit the mark in so many ways that I wish TFA had, and I left the theater with a much more positive impression. There's stuff I could could criticize or nitpick, but I'm still riding the post-movie high, so that can come later. More thoughts after I catch up on the hundreds of spoiler posts I skipped over since it released.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:09
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JollyPubJerk posted:I'm wholly aware, the problem I have with it is when they literally took it to misspellings of real places on earth for the extent of their allusions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tataouine
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Dec 19, 2016 04:11
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Cnut the Great posted:Not to mention the same thing happens with the Droid Control Ship in Episode I. Must be a whole lot of serendipitous reactor core sabotage going on, I tell you what! Considering how huge these vessels are, and their insane power requirements, its not surprising exploding the reactor core would cause the entire thing to erupt. I'm hazy on Galen's specific explanation of the fault, but I thought his trick was that hitting the exhaust port just right could carry it down to the center, believably destroying the Death Star. In RotJ they just had to fly through some scaffolding to get there, so no engineering trickery needed. Plus Palpatine's hubris finally catching up to him and all that. Filthy Casual fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 04:13
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Who is the guy in the black robe at Darth Vader's house, is that like his butler?
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Dec 19, 2016 04:18
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Filthy Casual posted:Considering how huge these vessels are, and their insane power requirements, its not surprising exploding the reactor core would cause the entire thing to erupt. I'm hazy on Galen's specific explanation of the fault, but I thought his trick was that hitting the exhaust port just right could carry it down to the center, believably destroying the Death Star. In RotJ they just had to fly through some scaffolding to get there, so no engineering trickery needed. Plus Palpatine's hubris finally catching up to him and all that. Galen's sabotage was that the whole thing was balanced so that a small explosion anywhere in the entire power system would chain-react up to the whole thing.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:18
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