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LividLiquid posted:I mean, you're all agreeing that they changed something from New Hope a little. You're just arguing about whether or not you think that matters, and I'm not entirely sure why you'd even do that. If you think it matters to you, it does. If it doesn't, fine. It changed it a little, quite intentionally. Some people are arguing the most minute detail and saying it's caused a "continuity error" which is missing the forest for the trees quite spectacularly in a film which was created entirely based on continuity with ANH. Nude Bog Lurker posted:"Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise? It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise, he could deduce things to reach...conclusions. He had such a knowledge of the Dark Side, he could even work things...out." Yeah I remember watching ANH for the first time, thinking wow this dark lord must have deduced a series of clues to track down this princess, what a clever fellow. thats ruined now
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Dec 19, 2016 06:56
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Wandle Cax posted:Yeah I remember watching ANH for the first time, thinking wow this dark lord must have deduced a series of clues to track down this princess, what a clever fellow. thats ruined now 1. Vader never knew Leia was on-board at the end of RO, did he? I don't think he saw her. 2. The Tantive IV or whatever obviously made the jump to hyperspace and had to be tracked down by Vader afterward, because somehow it got from beach planet to Tatooine. It may have been hours or days or weeks after the end of RO.
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Dec 19, 2016 07:03
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I'm sure this will all be cleared up during the song and dance number in Rogue One special edition.
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Dec 19, 2016 07:04
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If your base interpretation of the original trilogy wasn't Sherlock vs Moriarty then I just don't know what to tell you.
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Dec 19, 2016 07:08
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When ANH Vader says that plans were 'beamed to this ship' and Rogue One shows that the plans were handed over directly, this is inconsistent and bad and an example of continuity being carelessly discarded. If you care about this, you're protecting the integrity of Star Wars. When ESB Obi-Wan calls Yoda the master who instructed him like he did for Luke, but Attack of the Clones shows that Obi-Wan might have had Yoda as a teacher in Jedi kindergarten, this is completely consistent and good and an example of continuity being maintained perfectly. If you care about this, you don't actually like Star Wars.
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Dec 19, 2016 07:08
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Hey what about when Obi-wan says Anakin was a good friend when really he was a dick to him the whole time during the prequels
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Dec 19, 2016 07:11
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The plans were not found on the ships database so the plans were never transmitted to the Tantive IV 
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Dec 19, 2016 07:13
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Milky Moor posted:the integrity of Star Wars. This died in 1999 with midichlorians.
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Dec 19, 2016 07:14
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I really liked Rogue One, a lot better than TFA, even if the movie has flaws. I liked the characters and was sad to see them go, even if they weren't exactly the most fleshed out characters. My god there were some gorgeous shots in that movie. Cinematography blows TFA out of the water.
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Dec 19, 2016 07:16
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Wandle Cax posted:Hey what about when Obi-wan says Anakin was a good friend when really he was a dick to him the whole time during the prequels if you aren't a tremendous dick to your friends you're not actually friends with them hth e: for argument's sake, literally every piece of non-film media set in that time period has obi-wan and anakin be buddy-buddy while their relationship is a bit more strained in the films, which makes sense i guess since the stuff happening in the films is the Most Important (and emotionally tense)???
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Dec 19, 2016 07:31
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Wank posted:I felt a keen empathy for Product Manager Krennic. gently caress executives and senior management. gently caress those guys. Let me just show the CEO what I have achieved myself! loving COOs as well man. Just because you give me executive sponsorship it doesn't make it your project! Especially when I did things no one else would have done to make this happen. Christ. Were there issues in the release? Well, maybe internal ones that wouldn't affect the marketing effort. It doesn't make the process null and void. Me too, brother.
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Dec 19, 2016 07:32
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I went into this movie without many expectations but ended up finding it very very disappointing. The characters were very dull and one-dimensional, the plot felt pretty inconsequential and most of it wrote itself, and worst of all it was boring. This is sort of a weird way to put it, but there wasn't really a single scene that I would have regretted leaving for a bathroom break over. In Force Awakens it would have sucked to take a bathroom break and miss the cool opening sequence, or the fight in the woods at the end, or Rey sliding down the sand dunes, or a dozen other good scenes. But I can't really think of any single scene in this movie that I would have cared enough not to miss. I wish there would have been an antagonist that wasn't the awful lame imperial officer in white. He was extremely uninteresting and was a pretty pathetic excuse for a Star Wars villain. I think it would have been better if the Death Star plans were like, the vector that connected this side story to the main events of the war, but weren't the entire focus of the film. The monk character was interesting, and seeing a big temple was too. I thought it would have been cool if the movie had focused more on what the force was like to non-jedi civilians, and that the monk character could have been the gateway to explore that type of theme, maybe with an Imperial antagonist who also had interest in the force too but also in a non-jedi/sith way. The kyber crystals could have been the thing that tied the death star plans plot to this plot that just sort of explores how regular people make sense of the force, what their beliefs and religions are like about it. Instead though, the plot is as by-the-numbers as possible ("it's a movie about stealing the Death Star plans"), and the monk character feels very awkward. He's an Asian blind monk who can take on half a dozen enemies with a wooden staff and his defining character trait is constantly reciting a mantra. It's like... The Jedi are inspired by monks while still at least feeling unique; this character felt like oh, uhh I guess he's a just a rough archetype that they pulled wholesale out of some other movie. I get that they wanted to go for a "ragtag squad" deal with this movie, but the characters felt so flat and archetypal that it was like watching someone's XCOM team, or like they just randomly generated crew members. Felt like Disney had a chance to sell me on their Star Wars side-story movies and they really blew it.
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Dec 19, 2016 07:37
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ungulateman posted:if you aren't a tremendous dick to your friends you're not actually friends with them hth Not canon right?
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Dec 19, 2016 07:38
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Wandle Cax posted:Not canon right? the clone wars tv show is, if you actually care about canon and aren't trying to 'gotcha' me
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Dec 19, 2016 07:48
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One callback that hasn't been mentioned here yet may be the oldest of all: Chirrut saying "may the force of others be with you" which is some 1974 rough draft of The Star Wars level stuff.
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Dec 19, 2016 07:52
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Wandle Cax posted:And you're being deliberately obtuse. Leia has the plans on the ship. Vader knows this. Leia knows Vader knows this. Yet she looks him in the eye and tells an obviously fake story to Darth freaking Vader. This shows the bravery and defiance of Leia, and adds another dimension to the scene. I took it a different way but I was thinking along the same lines as the movie ended. I figured that as a legitimate figure in the legitimate civilian government she was trying to hide behind that to delay Vader and because of "plausible deniability". It isn't going to work. Leia knows that. But every second Vader has to plug through protocol is a second gained for her escaping droids. She miscalculated because the Empire clearly used the terrorist attack we saw in R1 to as the excuse to finally disband the Senate. But Leia is a snotty brat so a snotty brat saying, "You can't touch me, you have to file an R-1T-FA file before harassing a diplomat on a legitimate diplomatic mission" is a totally sane move. Vader can go to town on military officers because that falls under his purview. A totally civilian diplomatic officer on a legitimate diplomatic mission from Alderaan? That should have been harder but she miscalculated. It also makes the destruction of Alderaan make that much more sense. Despite Leia's protests, it was a legitimate military target. A snotty brat actually having to face consequences is totally in keeping with the character. "No, I [a daughter of the ruling family and diplomat from Alderaan] am involved with the Rebellion but the people of Alderaan are peaceful, they have no weapons. Leave them alone." America had toppled governments for less when the original Star Wars was released. Destroying Alderaan was bombing Laos.
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Dec 19, 2016 07:59
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Shbobdb posted:I took it a different way but I was thinking along the same lines as the movie ended. I figured that as a legitimate figure in the legitimate civilian government she was trying to hide behind that to delay Vader and because of "plausible deniability". It isn't going to work. Leia knows that. But every second Vader has to plug through protocol is a second gained for her escaping droids. Alderaan is also a bit more interesting given that Bail Organa says he has to leave Yavin to go prepare his people for war.
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Dec 19, 2016 08:16
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Even an unarmed planet has some preparations to make if the rebellion is about to escalate. Cnut, if it would make you feel better, think of the coda of Rogue One as shorthand for a more complex escape.
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Dec 19, 2016 08:21
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Yeah, Leia knew she and Vader both knew exactly what was up with her having the plans, but she didn't realise the Senate had fallen, so she was under the impression that technical deniability might still give her a layer or protection.
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Dec 19, 2016 08:22
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Plus Vader talking about how his knowledge of spies led him here is just more Dad Jokes, which Vader seems good at 
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Dec 19, 2016 08:34
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Dec 19, 2016 08:37
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ungulateman posted:if you aren't a tremendous dick to your friends you're not actually friends with them hth
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Dec 19, 2016 08:50
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Saw this last night and I had a couple of gripes and it's pretty glaringly obvious where the director and writers went wrong. Firstly the whole plot involving Saw Gerrera felt loving pointless. His entire character seemed shoehorned in so they could write around it. Wouldn't it make more sense rather than having this dude stand in as an extremist to simply have Jyn already a member of the Rebellion working on Jedha to investigate wtf the empire is doing with these Crystals. You can already keep the Monk and his protector in the story if this is the case. The contact that gets murdered by Cassian could have merely been trying to bring the Pilot to the rebellion, Cassian makes contact with him and grows suspicious as to how an imperial pilot knows of Jyn and why he wants to meet her. Pilot and Jyn fly to Jedha under orders from the Rebllion leaders and we pick up right where we left off with the incursion against the Tank just with the rolls a little adjusted. It cuts a good chunk of the pointless plot points out and the time could have been better utilised exploring the relationship between Krennic and Galen. It almost seems to me like a big theme of the movie was good people doing bad things for good reasons and the toll it takes and has taken on them. We see the rebellion plotting to kill Galen, with Cassian struggling with that hard choice and the others he's had to make, we see Jyn rather reluctantly drawn into the struggle, we see Krennic at the mercy of his superiors doing some nefarious poo poo to keep the death star on track. They could have expanded so much more on the way the empire exercised measures of control in their own internal struggles and politicing. Instead we saw a pilot get mind raped by a giant octopus and a funny accented dude huff gas for a very slow portion of the movie. It almost felt to me as if the writers were pigeonholed into having to make a female character the focus of the story and introduce a veritable paint by numbers of wacky heroic characters thrown in together in the cast instead of focusing on the good story that they had right beneath the surface that they hinted at. The comments that came out about the writers thinking the empire were white supremist and that sort of poo poo showed through in a really forced way and it's a drat shame. Diego Luna and Riz are loving fantastic in just about everything they're in and I've loved seeing Donnie yen since i found Yip Man in a sale bin one weekend, but what a waste of talent to throw in the wasted scenes they did. Intertwining stories between Jyn, Bohdi and Cassian vs Galen and Krennic all doing what they thought was right in the context of the rebel alliance juxtaposed with the empire against the backdrop for the last two thirds of the movie would have been loving fantastic. Mads and Mendelsohn are both phenomenal actors and it's almost criminal they were relegated to what felt like bit parts. The real winning parts of the movie, the fight scenes and the personal struggles could've really been highlighted instead most of it felt clunky. They should have gone a little tighter in the scope and could've had a really nice tight story.
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Dec 19, 2016 08:52
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I just got home from it and I really enjoyed the movie. It was a ton of fun, moreso than Force Awakens (which I still liked) and I had a smile on my face the whole time. I'm sure I could think of some plot holes if I thought about it but my main thing is - I honestly don't think I can name a single character besides Jyn. There was the good guy helping her (Cassin?), the droid, the monk and his friend, the pilot, Forest Whittaker, and the Empire had the bad guy in white, Jyn's dad, and GM Tarkin. They were all very identifiable but just as "that guy", not as characters that I really felt a connection to or understood. Just from a merchandising perspective you would think the studio would want more recognizable characters so kids would be saying "I want the X Character toy for Christmas!" I still don't get why the monk and his friend went along with it all beside Jyn being polite to him for like 30 seconds on the street. What made the pilot want to betray the Empire besides Jyn's dad telling him to, I don't think we ever get a backstory for that essential character? I feel like anyone seeing ANH for their first time would still come away remembering names like Luke, Leia, Han, and Chewie, and I didn't get that here. I think the movie was so fast paced going from action scene to action scene, there wasn't any space for the characters to sit down and talk to each other so we could really flesh them out and remember them. ANH has plenty of action but it's also got long pauses like the cantina, hanging out on the Falcon, down moments on the death star, etc for the characters to get to know each other and for the audience to get to know them. Rogue One seemed so fast paced that we didn't get that. It was exciting, and maybe the studio doesn't care since everyone dies but I wouldn't have minded some more slower exposition scenes to flesh it all out. Edit: Also - where was the Star Wars theme song??? One of the all-time iconic theme songs, I would have loved to have heard stuff from that original soundtrack. gohuskies fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 09:09
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Remember those weird posts I made comparing Star Wars to Gundam a while back? Well I'm gonna keep digging that hole by comparing Rogue One to Gundam 0080. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZULhqmhv3o Now, those two are structurally pretty different. One is a full-length hollywood movie while the other is a 6-episode miniseries. But there's a few interesting thematic parallels. Both are side-stories linked to the original (right before A New Hope for Rogue One, near the end of the war on another front for 0080. And both deal with a small team trying to stop a dangerous new weapon from being used. And ultimately both end with (spoilers, obviously) the team being killed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlmknkCxJX4 The major difference, though, is in the ending: Rogue One gives the character a somewhat meaningful death, with their theft of the plan eventually leading to "New Hope" for the Galaxy and the defeat of the Empire. The 0080 characters aren't so lucky: their deaths is ultimately pointless. The strike team fails, their ruthless superior officer decides to nuke the entire Colony hosting the weapon, and the lone survivor of the team, a rookie on his first mission, makes a last ditch attempt to sabotage the weapon before the nuclear attack is launched. He dies in the battle, damaging the weapon at the same time. The victory is empty though: the nukes had been stopped and the war ended hours earlier. The cease-fire simply didn't reach them in time. This shows a much more cynical view of war than the one shown in Rogue One, as well as greater willingness to deconstruct the franchise. The viewpoint character is a kid who loves giant robots and thinks war is the coolest. Through his friendship with the rookie and witnessing his pointless death he gets a harsh dose of reality and is traumatized by the events. The last shot of the series isn't the heroes from the original series saying that the strike team was instrumental in helping them, but rather the kid crying for his dead friend, and other kids trying to comfort by saying that "The next war is gonna be even bigger, with even cooler robots!" Maybe the first version of the script, where Jyn was still part of Gerrera's crew, would have been closer in tone. We'll never know. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR0htF7MW0g Once again, I'm not saying there's a deep connection here, I'm just comparing these similar long-running franchises for fun. 
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Dec 19, 2016 09:15
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Bongo Bill posted:Cnut, if it would make you feel better, think of the coda of Rogue One as shorthand for a more complex escape. There's supposedly a year between the end of rogue one and the start of ANH, so I say it's just a year-long Yakety Sax chase sequence
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Dec 19, 2016 09:26
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ungulateman posted:There's supposedly a year between the end of rogue one and the start of ANH, so I say it's just a year-long Yakety Sax chase sequence What's this based on? The movie seemed to imply a few minutes or possibly hours?
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Dec 19, 2016 09:42
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Does VR exist in the Star Wars universe? The closest I've found is the song routine that the grandad wookie listens to in episode 4.5
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Dec 19, 2016 09:48
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Waffles Inc. posted:Interesting insights here but can I ask what way you feel that warefare "deeply affects and drives" the characters? We don't know why Diego Luna has chosen to fight, and the only reason we hear about the Asian couple fighting is to protect a temple. They decide to join up for essentially no reason. They tag along and then decide to die...why? Cassian is interesting in that he's basically the principal, archetypal Rebel soldier that we spend the most time with in this film, but he's very different from the likes of Wedge Antilles or Poe Dameron. He's not a fighter pilot. He's not charming or wisecracking or devil-may-care. He's a hit man, an assassin, someone who has to do the dirty work on the ground. It's not as if the other flyboys in the air with their cool spaceships aren't also under constant threat of sudden ignoble death for the sake of their cause, but it's really interesting that the film shows the sort of person that you become when you're generally used to sniping your unknowing targets from afar or shooting them in the back...as opposed to facing them in glorious aerial combat. Someone like Poe probably returns to base after every mission to offers of copious drinks and sex. Someone like Cassian returns to base trying to forget that he just shot an informant that trusted him. The idea of giving his life to do something undeniably good and important, as opposed to skulking around adding more and more underhanded kills to his list, probably sounds incredibly attractive to him. This is the sort of soldier that Rogue One presents us with as the focal point, the face of the Rebel Alliance. And it's directly stated that these are the types of soldiers who comprise the ranks of the Rogue One mission: people who are laden with guilt, people who have nothing to live for but to right the wrongs that they've either been party to or victims of, people who have nothing to lose. People like Cassian, Chirrut, and Baze. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 10:06
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BrianWilly posted:Cassian is interesting in that he's basically the principal, archetypal Rebel soldier that we spend the most time with in this film, but he's very different from the likes of Wedge Antilles or Poe Dameron. He's not a fighter pilot. He's not charming or wisecracking or devil-may-care. He's a hit man, an assassin, someone who has to do the dirty work on the ground. It's not as if the other flyboys in the air with their cool spaceships aren't also under constant threat of sudden ignoble death for the sake of their cause, but it's really interesting that the film shows the sort of person that you become when you're generally used to sniping your unknowing targets from afar or shooting them in the back...as opposed to facing them in glorious aerial combat. Someone like Poe probably returns to base after every mission to offers of copious drinks and sex. Someone like Cassian returns to base trying to forget that he just shot an informant that trusted him. The idea of giving his life to do something undeniably good and important, as opposed to skulking around adding more and more underhanded kills to his list, probably sounds incredibly attractive to him. Beta bucks get cucked.
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Dec 19, 2016 10:25
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I'm still trying to figure out what the point of Forest Whitaker's entire character was.
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Dec 19, 2016 13:10
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He illustrated the Rebel 'alliance' was fractured and provided Jyn an upbringing and training, in lieu of her dead/captive parents.
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Dec 19, 2016 13:12
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I actually agree Saw's piece of the plot pie was arguably the weakest, either showing signs of a really early, unpolished draft...or a really last-minute, unpolished revision. My guess is that they were going for a sort of Ben Kenobi figure for Jyn with a Rogue One twist -- aka "more depressing!" -- but something didn't quite click in with the execution. Still scratching my head about that whole "Did they send you to kill me?" moment which seemed to come out of nowhere and ended up meaning nothing.
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Dec 19, 2016 13:27
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A Deacon posted:I'm still trying to figure out what the point of Forest Whitaker's entire character was. He was supposed to represent a darker more violent faction of the rebellion. Did you miss all the references to the Iraq and Vietnam insurgencies? And hear I thought the Napalm Girl cameo was super heavy handed but I guess you guys really do suck at watching movies
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Dec 19, 2016 13:27
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A Deacon posted:I'm still trying to figure out what the point of Forest Whitaker's entire character was. A point lost in a reshoots.
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Dec 19, 2016 13:33
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I can't help but feel like there's a missing chunk of the narrative about Jyn's life and Saw cut perhaps because an extremist-aligned mc would've been dodgy to portray
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Dec 19, 2016 13:36
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Nina posted:I can't help but feel like there's a missing chunk of the narrative about Jyn's life and Saw cut perhaps because an extremist-aligned mc would've been dodgy to portray They literally reshot that entire part of the movie because Disney was scared of looking like they support terrorism lol at anti-imperialist insurgencies being considered extremism nowadays but still not surprising that Disney would play it safe
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Dec 19, 2016 13:38
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BlindSite posted:
What was gender-specific about anything that Jyn said or did? I'm curious where this perception that having a female protagonist somehow diminished the story is coming from. Also I didn't get any sense of the story attempting to make any sort of racial analogies (beyond the ones that the franchise already has), so even if that was a consideration of the writers, who cares?
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Dec 19, 2016 13:39
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BrianWilly posted:Still scratching my head about that whole "Did they send you to kill me?" moment which seemed to come out of nowhere and ended up meaning nothing. Yeah that seemed like it was going to lead to him going full-on unhinged, but instead it amounted to...nothing? I'd love to see what was surely a wholly different set of scenes with Saw. Like what on earth would lead him to make the speech he was making in the very first teaser? Also holy gently caress a lot of y'all were super dicks to Cnut, who, of all of the people who write about prequels in this thread is probably the least likely to be a prick to anyone and who always makes interesting posts. All because he didn't like Rogue One: A Star Wars Story as much as you? Yeesh At least there's people like Brianwilly making interesting posts about R1 and not being an rear end in a top hat Rap Record Hoarder posted:What was gender-specific about anything that Jyn said or did? I'm curious where this perception that having a female protagonist somehow diminished the story is coming from. I thought it was funny that while the rebels were more human-racially diverse than the imperials, there was only a token alien or two in the "real" rebels, whereas Forrest Whittaker's "OMG EXTREMIST" rebels had tons
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Dec 19, 2016 14:18
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Rogue One is the second least-good Star Wars. Better than TFA, but weaker than the OT and the PT.
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Dec 19, 2016 14:28
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