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Sagebrush posted:i looked this up Eh, weird gently caress 3-wheeled electric cars with a < $10k price point are going to be all the rage in the future as the American public gets poorer relative to the top earners in the county. We have a new government stepping in that's actively hostile to worker's rights and will be doing their damnedest to strip every penny out of the average joe's pocket, and when gas prices start to climb you're going to see adoption of this stuff. Public transit is out of the question for the USA thanks to years of bitter racism and hatred of the poor causing the rich to shut down every train line and bus route to the suburbs, and people will need a cheap and fast way to get to their $3-a-day job. I don't know if everyone remembers the height of the 2008 gas crunch in the US, but people were selling 3-cylinder Geo Metros/Suzuki Swifts in the US for a hilarious gently caress-ton of money. Hell, if we relaxed crash test standards and legalized UTVs under 999cc displacement for the street (not unlike a Japanese Kei car kind of thing), I'd bet 50% of your bro trucks out there would be off the street overnight, replaced by the latest RZR machines with actual well-designed suspensions. We'd have a poo poo-ton less pollution, to boot. Edit: the recent gas crunch, I meant. funeral home DJ fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 19:52
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Relaxing crash standards in a world full of bro trucks and SUVs. I'm sure that wouldn't have the inverse reaction of killing more poor or putting them in the hospital, where they will be stuck with bills due to the soon to be gutted healthcare.
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Dec 19, 2016 23:25
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Phuzun posted:Relaxing crash standards in a world full of bro trucks and SUVs. I'm sure that wouldn't have the inverse reaction of killing more poor or putting them in the hospital, where they will be stuck with bills due to the soon to be gutted healthcare. Besides, the Model 3 will probably make its way into the used market soon enough (Last I checked, you can already get a used Volt or Leaf for around $10k).
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Dec 19, 2016 23:40
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So EV report. Holy poo poo, 26 miles is a lot of range. (I mean that in a postive sense). I have a garage with a reliable way to charge my EV every day, and honestly I have used 1 gallon of gas in 3 weeks (The gas engine came on for performance in winter mode when I had 18 miles in the battery). Driving in a highly dense area (north New Jersey) to supermarkets and local erands (dry cleaning and some shopping malls) is really short. If I had known what I do know I would have a Ford Fusion Electric. EV driving is awesome (and I am charging with a literal plug) (120 V) every night.
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Dec 20, 2016 01:48
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Ryand-Smith posted:Holy poo poo, 26 miles is a lot of range.  That wouldn't even get me to work in the morning.
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Dec 20, 2016 03:50
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Godholio posted:
I'm in a city of its own right which is in a huge megaplex (Jersey City is a old city that has become half suburb of NY and still its own city with workers working internally. 26 miles? That was my norfolk drive, where are you heading to?
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Dec 20, 2016 03:54
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Sagebrush posted:i looked this up Sorry it's not a Tesla. For the drives I sometimes do long distance into relatively rural areas to visit family, the Supercharger network won't currently work for me so I can't do an EV as my only vehicle. But most of my driving is fairly local on back roads to the train station to commute into Philadelphia and the like where an EV makes a lot of sense. My game plan is to get an Arcimoto when it's available for much of my local daily driving and a "normal" car or SUV that I can take longer distances or when I need more storage space/seats/actual heaters. I could also do a plug-in hybrid but I'm missing having a car that I can aggressively accelerate in. And I think the Arcimoto looks better than the BMW i3 or the Chevy Bolt. I'm sure others here would disagree. 
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Dec 20, 2016 04:29
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fordan posted:Sorry it's not a Tesla. Hm, no, I was coming at it from the other side. Thinking more like   I mean if you really don't care about storage space or heating or all of that, an electric motorcycle is functionally equivalent and significantly faster and like 1000% cooler. I guess I'm just not big on three-wheelers. I get that the idea is to have all the advantages of a car and of a motorcycle, but it usually turns out to have all the disadvantages of both instead. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Dec 20, 2016 |
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Dec 20, 2016 04:46
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fordan posted:I could also do a plug-in hybrid but I'm missing having a car that I can aggressively accelerate in. Then get a plug-in hybrid that has a decent set of motors? Something like Volvo's dual-drive system where if you put your foot down you get both the ICE and electric motor putting power to pavement simultaneously. Or an electric motorcycle, but if you haven't ridden before you might kill yourself with all that instant torque and power.
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Dec 20, 2016 05:01
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pun pundit posted:Then get a plug-in hybrid that has a decent set of motors? Something like Volvo's dual-drive system where if you put your foot down you get both the ICE and electric motor putting power to pavement simultaneously.
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Dec 20, 2016 05:06
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Ryand-Smith posted:I'm in a city of its own right which is in a huge megaplex (Jersey City is a old city that has become half suburb of NY and still its own city with workers working internally. 26 miles? That was my norfolk drive, where are you heading to? Nevada, outside of Reno or Vegas. Which means it's rare for two towns to be less than 25 miles apart, and that would be tighter than most.
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Dec 20, 2016 05:51
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Sagebrush posted:Hm, no, I was coming at it from the other side. Thinking more like After I made my post I checked your posts in the group and realized you were probably coming from the other side. I kind-of like the roll cage and seat belts. I had a motorcycle quite a while ago; it got destroyed and I got a helicopter ride to the local trauma center and some permanent range-of-motion issues when someone didn't see me and pulled out from their stop sign on a side road right in front of me. Plus I think I can get someone in the back seat of the Arcimoto SRK easier than on the back of an actual motorcycle. The Zero SR looks interesting though. Wish I lived someplace with fewer idiots per square mile. Hrm. edit: pun pundit posted:Then get a plug-in hybrid that has a decent set of motors? Something like Volvo's dual-drive system where if you put your foot down you get both the ICE and electric motor putting power to pavement simultaneously. Pretty much every hybrid I'm aware of uses both ICE and electric simultaneously when hard accelerating, but it doesn't make it a fast process. If you are aware of fast hybrids, I'd love to hear which. My Prius certainly isn't. It's not terrible, but it's far from quick and fun to drive. fordan fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Dec 20, 2016 |
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Dec 20, 2016 06:13
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Ryand-Smith posted:So EV report. Holy poo poo, 26 miles is a lot of range. (I mean that in a postive sense). I have a garage with a reliable way to charge my EV every day, and honestly I have used 1 gallon of gas in 3 weeks (The gas engine came on for performance in winter mode when I had 18 miles in the battery). Driving in a highly dense area (north New Jersey) to supermarkets and local erands (dry cleaning and some shopping malls) is really short. If I had known what I do know I would have a Ford Fusion Electric. EV driving is awesome (and I am charging with a literal plug) (120 V) every night. I just got a sonata phev, loving its range also. Got 688 miles on 12 .1 gallons and skewed it with a highway trip (lowered the mpg).
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Dec 20, 2016 06:14
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fordan posted:The Zero SR looks interesting though. Wish I lived someplace with fewer idiots per square mile. Hrm. I've test ridden the FXS, its less-powerful but far lighter sister, and it's a blast. The easiest motorcycle I've ever ridden in my life, and that's including scooters. The rest of the guys on DSRs said they were a hoot as well - if it weren't for the fact that my girlfriend is terrified of driving and riding anything more powerful than a bicycle, I'd be considering one. For now, a used Leaf is a better idea once I find a place where I can charge it reliably. Phuzun posted:Relaxing crash standards in a world full of bro trucks and SUVs. I'm sure that wouldn't have the inverse reaction of killing more poor or putting them in the hospital, where they will be stuck with bills due to the soon to be gutted healthcare. Cockmaster posted:Besides, the Model 3 will probably make its way into the used market soon enough (Last I checked, you can already get a used Volt or Leaf for around $10k). I agree with you both but I feel super pessimistic about the working poor having access to Level 2 charging. I live in an apartment complex now and any request for a marginal improvement is replied with them laughing at you and pissing on your shoes while telling you rent's going up next month. Hell, I asked for them to let me into the HVAC closet so I can add a goddamned 4 foot long c-wire to run a thermostat that was invented in the last 30 years, and they told me they weren't willing to open the loving closet as it is too much effort for the maintenance crew. They're cool with me changing thermostats but literally don't want to make the effort to open a locked door so I can make it work. Adding a level 2 charging station will never happen, and I can see people only really having access to charge from random sockets on the outside of buildings. The Leaf takes 22-odd hours to charge from flat on 120v and I'd imagine the Model 3 will take significantly longer, and I don't see adoption taking off if you run a few extra errands after work then can't use your car for a solid day. Meanwhile, the 13kw battery in a 3 wheeled car can fill up from dead in about 8-10 hours on 120v so it seems a ton more realistic for the average person to own.
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Dec 20, 2016 15:22
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fordan posted:Pretty much every hybrid I'm aware of uses both ICE and electric simultaneously when hard accelerating, but it doesn't make it a fast process. Volts (and by extension, all three of the ELRs that Cadillac sold,) operate as straight EVs while they still have EV range remaining. IIRC, even in sport mode. All sport mode does in mine is changes the throttle pedal to be even less linear than it already is. Volts aren't fast, but they're considerably quicker than a Prius, and comparable to most other economy cars. Only ~110hp, but 368ft-lbs from the electric drivetrain makes it decent to drive. Volts are definitely not fast. 
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Dec 20, 2016 20:40
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I doubt the working poor are sold on the idea of having to license and insure two vehicles, since affordable electrics cannot travel out of metro areas. And if the charging infrastructure isn't there, they certainly won't consider an EV. They aren't a market demographic that needs a half assed solution in the form of a new unsafe vehicle. Hybrids would make much more sense, if gas prices are a concern. And used hybrids are very affordable, while offering real cargo capacity, seating for 4-5 adults, along with crash safety.
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Dec 20, 2016 21:57
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fordan posted:Pretty much every hybrid I'm aware of uses both ICE and electric simultaneously when hard accelerating, but it doesn't make it a fast process. If you are aware of fast hybrids, I'd love to hear which. My Prius certainly isn't. It's not terrible, but it's far from quick and fun to drive. You could grab an old Lexus GS450h, but that sort of defeats the purpose of having a hybrid in the first place...
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Dec 20, 2016 23:56
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Is this the thread to make fun of America for deciding to buy a poo poo ton of SUVs and trucks recently? OPEC: welp undercutting new oil markets didn't work, time to stop artificially lowering our prices. Americans: Gas is cheap now and always will be!
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Dec 21, 2016 16:54
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Eifert Posting posted:Americans: Gas is cheap now and always will be! The US has plenty of capacity to keep prices down, if so desired by the government. I'll give you three guesses whether the incoming administration wants to keep people driving big expensive vehicles or not.
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Dec 21, 2016 16:59
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I'm skeptical of whether a republican admin can price-fix O&G when the industry basically owns the party.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:27
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They can adjust gas taxes, which form the majority of the cost for a gallon of gas at this point. But there are a lot of market forces at this point which will keep gas low for the medium term future. It won't be cheap forever, and EVs are still the future, but laughing at people for buying trucks solely because gas will be expensive again in six months is a fantasy.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:44
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ilkhan posted:gas taxes, which form the majority of the cost for a gallon of gas at this point. What makes you say this?
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Dec 21, 2016 17:56
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fordan posted:Pretty much every hybrid I'm aware of uses both ICE and electric simultaneously when hard accelerating, but it doesn't make it a fast process. If you are aware of fast hybrids, I'd love to hear which. My Prius certainly isn't. It's not terrible, but it's far from quick and fun to drive. The aforementioned volvo hybrids are pretty quick. Although the ICE engine they have is diesel, the electric motor makes up for diesel sluggishness. The ICE drives the front wheel and the electric motor drives the rear wheels.
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Dec 21, 2016 19:08
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Suqit posted:What makes you say this? I guess it works out to 1/4 to 1/3 in most of the country. Godholio fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 19:51
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Also state tax is the majority of the gas tax not going to get that cut.
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Dec 21, 2016 20:06
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Quick dumb question about EV charging at home. If I get a 240v line in my garage, would that improve charging speed without the extra level 2 (or whatever it is) box? I'm getting the sense the answer is "no" but I'm only half sure what to google for. Lease on my current car ('14 Mazda3) is coming up in the next few months. Still hemming and hawing on the Volt vs the Leaf, and hoping to test the Bolt soon. Only drove 13k miles in 2.5 years in the Mazda, sheesh.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:14
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You need a charger that will use that power. The Leaf and possibly the Volt stock chargers can be upgraded or you could purchase a separate dedicated charger.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:19
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The car will take 240V/40A AC and convert it to whatever DC it needs internally. You should be able to connect your charger to a 240 plug and get L2 charging, if the car supports L2 charging. My Tesla just uses a different plug adapter from the one for 120/L1, but it gets dumped into the car in the same simple way. E: Phuzun posted:You need a charger that will use that power. The Leaf and possibly the Volt stock chargers can be upgraded or you could purchase a separate dedicated charger. When you say "charger", what do you mean? Does the Leaf need the power transformed in some way external to the car?
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Dec 22, 2016 22:22
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Alright, thanks. My apartment managers have proven surprisingly amenable to giving me a 240v line in the garage (probably because it directly abuts the laundry room), but given my driving habits I'm not even sure I'd need the dedicated L2 charging apparatus, be it in the car or on the wall.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:24
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Depends on the car. Teslas have all of their charge gear onboard, and you can plug their charge cord directly into mains up to 220v@40a with just simple adaptors. (Which is the way it SHOULD be. The extra gear required with J1772 connectors is really annoying.) Most (all?) other EVs and plug-ins that I know of require an external device of some sort to communicate with the car. The Volt/ELR 110v charge cord has a box on it that does this. That said, they're not THAT much money, though the cheaper models may not be capable of charging your car as fast as it can accept.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:24
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MrYenko posted:Depends on the car. Teslas have all of their charge gear onboard, and you can plug their charge cord directly into mains up to 220v@40a with just simple adaptors. (Which is the way it SHOULD be. The extra gear required with J1772 connectors is really annoying.) Most (all?) other EVs and plug-ins that I know of require an external device of some sort to communicate with the car. The Volt/ELR 110v charge cord has a box on it that does this. Oh, that's considerably cheaper than I reckoned; I thought the apparatus went handily into four digits US$. My bad, should have checked!
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Dec 22, 2016 22:25
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http://evseupgrade.com That is another option, bit cheaper, uses the original cord. And you should find out how big the breaker is, since you might be able to use more than 240v 16 amps.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:31
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MrYenko posted:Depends on the car. Teslas have all of their charge gear onboard, and you can plug their charge cord directly into mains up to 220v@40a with just simple adaptors. (Which is the way it SHOULD be. The extra gear required with J1772 connectors is really annoying.) Most (all?) other EVs and plug-ins that I know of require an external device of some sort to communicate with the car. The Volt/ELR 110v charge cord has a box on it that does this. That's very interesting! Does the AC-to-DC conversion happen externally, or just...other stuff, I dunno I guess.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:33
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The box provides two-way communication with the car, because the car doesn't know how much power it is allowed to draw from any given plug. It also has disconnect arcing protection; when you go to unplug the car from the box it will stop providing power so that you won't burn the connector with electrical arcing. In the Tesla you have to manually tell the car what current to draw. This is non-ideal because most people don't know their amperes from their volts. The J1772 connector is a much better interface for the late adopter, and EVSE boxes to mount in garages and so on are getting cheap enough that it isn't a great burden.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:49
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pun pundit posted:In the Tesla you have to manually tell the car what current to draw. Only if you want it to draw less than max. It picks 40/72/80/supercharger-range on its own, I've never had to specify.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:53
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Subjunctive posted:That's very interesting! Does the AC-to-DC conversion happen externally, or just...other stuff, I dunno I guess. Rectification is done on-board in every vehicle I know of, that is to say, the actual battery charger is on-board. The external equipment is just monitoring state-of-ground and establishing the allowed charge current with the vehicle. (All part of SAE J1772, which is more in-depth than just the shape of the plug.) As to the superiority of J1772 to Tesla's proprietary setup; Most people not knowing the first loving thing about electricity and burning their homes down should be a feature of EVs, not a bug. 
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Dec 22, 2016 23:50
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But I like my home 
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Dec 22, 2016 23:52
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EV mechanics question! When the battery is very full, or cold, regenerative braking gets much weaker. (The kWometer indicates it, even.) Could they not still do the full energy reduction and just throw the generated power away, rather than changing the driving characteristics in a jarring way?
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Dec 23, 2016 01:55
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Subjunctive posted:EV mechanics question! The electric motor(s) remain(s) capable of taking up that much power in the cold. The problem is that they can’t do anything with it. Locomotives have huge resistors to dissipate excess electrical power when necessary. Hybrids can spin up the ICE with no fuel and bleed energy by compressing air. Electric cars are built with neither of those options. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 02:04
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Okay, so you can't store the energy in the battery because it's full, but the energy's gotta go somewhere. Where do you want to "throw it away" to? The most obvious thing to do is turn it into heat. Put a big resistor pack up front in the airflow, and dump the electricity through that. Forward motion turns to electricity which turns to heat which is rejected to the air. Or you could just use the service brakes, which turn forward motion into heat directly.
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Dec 23, 2016 02:05
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