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mastershakeman posted:And yeah, chicago goons should do a luncheon, there's a bunch of us here. Too bad we all froze to death today Anyone interested hit me up at my username @ gmail.com. We can grab some food once we thaw out.
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Dec 16, 2016 17:04
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I passed two different bar exams trying to get a job, and didn't get my first gig for almost a year after graduating. I lived for a month or two at a time at a friend's house, a cousin's house, in a basement, and at my parents' house, while constantly shooting out resume's and applications everywhere I could. It took writing letters to solos/small firms all over the county asking if they needed any short-term contract labor for research or writing. Did that for a couple months until someone brought me in for a small project, and then for another one, and another one. That led to my first job, which led to my second. I credit myself for all my hard work and resilience, and I also acknowledge that I got extremely lucky, and fell into the right place at the right time, which, plus multiple other turns of fortune, led me and my (now) wife to our jobs now, that we love. I'm glad my life turned out the way it did, and I wouldn't change it. Thats my story, suck my dick. Edit: Also, my wife stuck by me and believed in me through some real tough times, and I love her very much and don't tell her how thankful I am often enough, so I'm going to tonight, and you all should do the same.
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Dec 16, 2016 17:58
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I graduated in 08, did volunteer work for a while, some 'legal research' for a crazy solo, and then decided to spend $250 learning how to prepare taxes at H&R. Got more worth out of that class than I did with three years of law school.
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Dec 16, 2016 18:37
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blarzgh posted:
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Dec 16, 2016 18:49
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Lol, the prenda law fucks got arrested.
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Dec 16, 2016 22:24
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nm posted:Lol, the prenda law fucks got arrested. *exhales breath that's been held for 25 years* mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Dec 16, 2016 |
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Dec 16, 2016 22:40
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nm posted:Lol, the prenda law fucks got arrested. Speaking of porno-trolling collectives, I got catcalled as "looking like a 70's porn star" at the jail this week. (I've got to start wearing baggier pants) blarzgh posted:Edit: Also, my wife stuck by me and believed in me through some real tough times, and I love her very much and don't tell her how thankful I am often enough, so I'm going to tonight, and you all should do the same. True, and done.
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Dec 16, 2016 23:11
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nm posted:Lol, the prenda law fucks got arrested. I can't imagine the amount of chutzpa (or is it stupidity) they must've had to commit so much fraud and lie to the court over and over without thinking they were going to get caught.
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Dec 16, 2016 23:44
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joat mon posted:Speaking of porno-trolling collectives, I got catcalled as "looking like a 70's porn star" at the jail this week. (I've got to start wearing baggier pants) Just how big is your dick and how tight were these pants
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Dec 17, 2016 00:18
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gret posted:I can't imagine the amount of chutzpa (or is it stupidity) they must've had to commit so much fraud and lie to the court over and over without thinking they were going to get caught. They also went to my law school at about the same time (I vaguely know hansmeier's wife as she was the same year as me), so I can say that I'm pretty sure our ethics course told us NOT to do that.
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Dec 17, 2016 00:26
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mastershakeman posted:Just how big is your dick and how tight were these pants My NDA with John Holmes/his estate prevents me from answering that question unless medically necessary.
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Dec 17, 2016 00:43
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Haven't been in this thread in forever. Years probably. Just as depressing as I remember. So after being out for five years, I am looking at going back into the legal world. I am currently spending my Christmas vacation watching online CLEs. I guess it's good I've been paying to keep my license alive (in associate status). I have a little bit of an issue though and am looking for advice. The short version is I currently have a non-lawyer job at a government agency. Certain people there apparently like me and I have been told to apply for an attorney position since they know me and I know the agency work and they think it makes more sense to hire me than to go to someone outside. However, it is not clear exactly who will be making the decision and which people I have to get past, so while I have a pretty huge leg up, I still have some hurdles to clear. The biggest of these from my persective, is that I need to provide a writing sample. I think convincing the legal folks currently there that I have the ability to do real lawyer work is important as their opinion will probably still be huge regardless of what higher ups want. A lot of my day to day would be a fancier version of what I currently do, so I'm not worried about the actual job, but they do spend some time in court and I get they want to know I can do that stuff too. I haven't done legal work in forever. Even back in the day I mostly just did doc review. I have a few little examples of real work from a part-time PI job I had. But those are about 5 pages, well below the required sample length. So I could go back to law school things, but that seems weird to do for anything outside of an entry-level attorney position and I don't think this is really an entry-level job. So....what do I do? Use something from law school? Mash together a couple shorter boring things? Or come up with something entirely new? Am I right that this needs to be real lawyer work and not student work? I sort of like writing something new, but I'm not sure where I would get the scenario. Everything is on the Internet I guess. Maybe I just make up some additional opposing arguments for the short things I did and the response to that can stretch them to the right length. I think all of these options are probably terrible and I'm going to lose out on this job when the general counsel tells the boss-boss that I write like some loser TTT grad who isn't good for anything other than doc review. That's not the worst thing in the world since my current job pay decent and is super easy and even slightly interesting but this attorney job would be a huge income jump and a much better long term move.
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Dec 18, 2016 03:43
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Write a memo on the area of law that you're trying to get into that's correct, current, practical, and shows an applied knowledge of what you'd be doing in the role and submit that
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Dec 18, 2016 04:07
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Don't talk yourself out of the running before you start. What legal issues does you current job deal with, what legal issues would the law job deal with? I'd write something new, like a memorandum of law on a slightly niche issue that your agency works with. That way you can show familiarity with the operative laws/regulations/rules, how the agency views and construes them, and your application those things to the practical realities of their implementation. Like you're explaining the issue to a smart but new political appointee boss.
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Dec 18, 2016 04:09
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don't freeze to death tomorrow chicago lawyers loving ufc stream i was watching went to local news and its supposed to have wind chills -30 tomorrow.
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Dec 18, 2016 04:35
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Job deals with criminal justice kind of stuff. It really would be the same kind of stuff i currently deal with as a lot of the law job is just dealing with administrative appeals related to stuff I'm already doing and occasionally actual lawsuits related to it. But criminals tend to not make the best arguments so a lot of this shouldn't be complicated. Memo is an interesting idea. Needs to get to 15 pages.
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Dec 18, 2016 05:59
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Mr. Nice! posted:don't freeze to death tomorrow chicago lawyers loving ufc stream i was watching went to local news and its supposed to have wind chills -30 tomorrow. I'm glad I'm not visiting my childhood home this weekend but rather next best it's a consistent ten degrees colder, meaning the high of 5 tomorrow is instead a high of -5 for my dad who is living in a shack with a wood stove and outhouse while he airbnbs the house. that being said I've never seen bears/packers tickets so cheap! edit: a 15 page writing sample sounds like bullshit. mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Dec 18, 2016 |
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Dec 18, 2016 06:18
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Yeah I probably should have just mentioned the length right away. Kind of a lot.
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Dec 18, 2016 07:29
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Kase Im Licht posted:Job deals with criminal justice kind of stuff. Any developments on standard of review in your area? Standard of review is such a mess in Canada I have to assume that it is a universal problem. Plus, if you have a grasp of SoR it shows you're ready for doing admin appeals.
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Dec 18, 2016 20:47
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Don't use something from more than a few years ago. Hopefully you've improved as a writer since then. I'd do one of three things: submit something you've written for the job in the last 6 months, draft a new memo on an area of law you deal with on a regular basis, or ask the hiring folks if they can give you a prompt. (The last option is not a great idea, but I've very occasionally seen people do it when applying to a firm job when coming off a clerkship when their judge doesn't want them to use a bench memo for judicial privacy reasons.)
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Dec 18, 2016 21:07
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nm posted:They also went to my law school at about the same time (I vaguely know hansmeier's wife as she was the same year as me), so I can say that I'm pretty sure our ethics course told us NOT to do that. Really? Were they in my year, or ahead of you? Who's his wife? I just Googled them and don't recognize either of the arrested dudes. Apparently a third one just died. This is intriguing.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:10
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BigHead posted:Really? Were they in my year, or ahead of you? Who's his wife? I just Googled them and don't recognize either of the arrested dudes. Apparently a third one just died. This is intriguing. Padregian (sp?) Browne.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:31
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Kase Im Licht posted:Job deals with criminal justice kind of stuff. There is no way in hell anything you wrote in law school is good enough for a writing sample at any level other than being hired right out of law school. Write something new.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:48
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evilweasel posted:There is no way in hell anything you wrote in law school is good enough for a writing sample at any level other than being hired right out of law school. Write something new. This is correct. But writing 15 new pages? Yikes. 15 good pages can take a long, long time if it's just some memo or something. But I dunno, I'm a trial lawyer, I just do it live.
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Dec 19, 2016 00:32
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"I don't really deal with the law I just tell stories." - Trial Lawyer
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Dec 19, 2016 02:20
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I'll sell you a writing sample, $20 a page
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Dec 19, 2016 03:56
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That's like a 95% discount off what I charged originally
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Dec 19, 2016 03:59
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My last trial was this over and over again: HDD: objection, lack of personal knowledge. OC: your honor its self authenticating. HDD: Judge it may be authentic, but she's gotta have personal knowledge of the document. Judge: sustained, the exhibit will not be admitted. I honestly don't even know if that's the rule but it sure kept working and they didn't have an answer. So you see, trial lawyer. I just tell stories.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:48
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:This is correct. So, this is kind of the dilemna. Not any good options. Also, using current work at agency is a no go. For one, most of what i write isn't that long. For two, I didn't know they were putting up the announcement until right as I was heading home for Christmas and I'm already out of town and can't get anything off my work computer and the deadline is before I return. And since it is still 1994 I don't have any remote access (we also still use faxes for most communications).
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Dec 19, 2016 06:15
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Talked to a few people and got some good news and some bad news. On the bad side, I knew there was some weird political poo poo involved here but apparently the open positions may be used by political appointees to try and burrow into career positions. Not for certain that's what's happening, but that is what the rumor mill is saying. So I guess it's a race to see who is in charge when the hiring decisions will be made. Still applying in case it works out but the enthusiasm is considerably lessened. The inability of government to get anything done quickly may actually help me here. On the good side, apparently they wanted the writing sample to be a maximum of 15 pages, not what ended up in the announcement, so while I still need to submit 15 to avoid getting bumped by some HR flunky, it should be okay to submit two smaller items, which makes things easier.` I do like one piece of real work I have that is about 6 pages, and I could probably lengthen it by putting back in a couple arguments that got dropped in the final draft (for strategic reasons). Thinking I might just try and write something new for the remaining pages. I can probably come up with something work related of interest. They'll get to see cites and legal writing in the brief, and then my second can maybe be more general writing, which is still important and I won't have to try and remember how the bluebook works. Or maybe both should be lawyer poo poo? I was thinking of suing my student loan company for incorrect reporting that they won't fix. Two birds with one stone? As far as comments go about writing being better now than in law school - yes, obviously I am a better writer. now However, I am not sure I am a better legal writer. I remember gently caress all about the blue book and correct citations. I'm sure I can relearn this stuff if I get the position, but not by the end of this week. Ugh. I just want to go back to bed and forget this job was ever a possibility. I think I went to three law alumni events this year with free food and booze. I will get my money's worth from that law school tuition one way or another.
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Dec 20, 2016 02:15
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Nothing about this will be about the blue book or proper citations. Don't completely gently caress then up, but otherwise you are fine. (Just shep/keycite whatever you are citing and copy that citation format.) outside of law school citations just need to be good enough not to be embarrassing.
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Dec 20, 2016 04:19
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Is SlyFrog still alive? I'm still alive. Mostly. Even by my standards job has been poo poo for the past year - hours are too low, and I am probably now at the point where I need to be looking for a move whether I like it or not (or a magical way to generate another 500 or so billable hours per year, at an advanced age where that doesn't just mean walking up to someone else and saying, "Give me hours"). Given how much I hate my work (genuinely), it has been very hard for me to go seek out more. Even though that is exactly what I needed to do for job stability. I may have a line on something in-house. A bit terrified of it, because this whole 15+ years of working in misery, while remunerative, has not done good things for my mental space. I'm frankly concerned as to what happens if I go there, do the same staring at 60 pages contracts all day, and still have the same anxiety and dread of going into work. In essence, the problem may well be in me, and changing things may just result in having the same feelings of anxiety, depression, and misery, but with in-house controls over my time. I am trying to see the bright and hopeful side of this that the change, the lack of having to bill time, the lack of having to "find clients" could help, but the former is my genuine concern. But for the time being, I don't even have an offer (they're working on something for me), so I'm trying not to put the cart before the horse. Also, as to the main topic that seems to be going around, lol at the notion that my writing has improved since law school. After college and law school, I was at the top of my game. (I'm not saying it was amazing, but it was almost certainly my peak.) Because I cared about what I wrote. Because I was working and reading the writing of other academics who cared about writing. Because what I wrote could be thought out, not compelled with, "Hey, we need to turn this in a couple of hours." 15+ years of ". . . does hereby indemnify, defend, and hold harmless the previously mentioned party from, against, for, by, under, around, over, and loving between any and all claims, actions, investigations, losses, obligations, tribulations, annihilation, decimations, meditations, United Nations, congratulations . . . ." has utterly destroyed what little bit of writing ability I had. I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving. SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Dec 20, 2016 |
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Dec 20, 2016 15:22
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Go to law school. SlyFrog is successful too, you idiots.
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Dec 20, 2016 15:36
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Go to law school. In fairness, there are a large number of people around me who seem to cope with this job far better than I do. Though it baffles me how, but again, that is probably illustrative of my own personal problems and outlook, and just creates further concern that I will carry this with me to any other job. Of course, a disturbing chunk of people in this profession are supposedly alcoholics or drug addicts, and I don't have either of those issues (yet), so yay, one point for SlyFrog!
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Dec 20, 2016 15:49
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Substance abuse is how they're coping.
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Dec 20, 2016 15:49
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You seeing a therapist man? If you're not, you should. I don't think that anxiety of job performance necessarily goes away. I still want to vomit with every contested hearing. Does that happen to surgeons or procedure-focused doctors? You reading this, residency evil or the obgyn with a urethra-based avatar caption?
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Dec 20, 2016 16:05
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SlyFrog posted:In fairness, there are a large number of people around me who seem to cope with this job far better than I do. Though it baffles me how, but again, that is probably illustrative of my own personal problems and outlook, and just creates further concern that I will carry this with me to any other job. Of course, a disturbing chunk of people in this profession are supposedly alcoholics or drug addicts, and I don't have either of those issues (yet), so yay, one point for SlyFrog! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfGYSHy1jQs
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Dec 20, 2016 16:19
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In all seriousness that sounds like an anxiety disorder and that can be treated, both with medication and with therapy. And you will be much, much happier for it. You are probably in the middle of a vicious cycle where you are anxious and dreading the anxiety and dread itself in part so its self-reinforcing, but is well understood and can be interrupted and treated.
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Dec 20, 2016 16:22
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Since I'm brokish, for my secret santa this year I sent a story I wrote + some homemade treats to my friend. It was really weird typing up a story for someone from imagination instead of writing dry, boring legalese crap. I actually had a lot of fun doing it and it took me a few hours, but I got to throw in some grammatical flourishes and was very pleased! What I'm saying is law school/being a lawyer ruins your writing
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Dec 20, 2016 16:49
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Done the therapy thing. Done the drug thing. (Under professional guidance, not me trying something for a week and saying "Nope, didn't work.") Neither have seemed to materially help. Am considering trying therapy again, but after trying 4-5 therapists (for a good bit of time each) over the past 5-10 years at different times, I do have a hard time believing this time will be different. SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Dec 20, 2016 |
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Dec 20, 2016 16:49
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