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Main Paineframe posted:It's an utter disaster for Israel - the next couple years will be great for the Israeli right, but in the long-term it could seriously hurt Israel's support in the US. Israel's relationship with the Diaspora is already rather delicate, since the Haredi parties have disproportionate power in the government and have used it to carve out all sorts of special privileges for themselves while relegating non-Orthodox Jews to second-class status, and Netanyahu's repeated attempts to turn foreign Jews into unpaid envoys for his foreign policy have been causing concern in the Diaspora.
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# ? Dec 16, 2016 18:56 |
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# ? May 19, 2024 11:47 |
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How much does the US/Israel relation rely on American Jews? My understanding was that while it certainly doesn't hurt that American Jews generally are supportive of the US/Israeli relation, the real backbone behind the relation is a) religious right/Islamophobia, and b) defense industry/neocon expansionism. I don't doubt that Trump and Friedman will (together with Bibi) make the US/Israeli relation much more of a GOP/Likud relation, and the end result will be if the Democrats ever regain power (especially if it's under the guide of the Sanders/Ellison wing of the party) it will take a lot of work to reestablish the bipartisan support for Israel, but I'm wondering how much the relation relies on the opinions of American Jews.
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# ? Dec 16, 2016 19:53 |
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Liberal Zionists play quite a big role in preventing non-conservative opinion from turning too hostile to Israel. I suspect stuff like BDS would be a lot more popular/mainstream on the left if not for the Jewish component of the left-liberal coalition
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# ? Dec 16, 2016 20:11 |
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DrProsek posted:How much does the US/Israel relation rely on American Jews? My understanding was that while it certainly doesn't hurt that American Jews generally are supportive of the US/Israeli relation, the real backbone behind the relation is a) religious right/Islamophobia, and b) defense industry/neocon expansionism. While it doesn't rely entirely on the opinions of American Jews, they play a crucial role in the overall political consensus. The Dems don't much care about the religious right and Islamophobes, but American Jews tend to be liberal and urban and are thus an important Democratic constituency who have played a critical role in keeping Israel support bipartisan. Also, "opposing Israeli government policies is anti-Semitic" has much broader appeal than "we need to support Israel for Jesus" or "kill all Muslims", but it depends on the support of American Jews for its credibility.
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# ? Dec 16, 2016 21:25 |
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I keep hearing conflicting poo poo on this - does Palestine have or not have nuclear weapons?
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 02:23 |
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Feral Integral posted:I keep hearing conflicting poo poo on this - does Palestine have or not have nuclear weapons? Neither the Palestinian Authority nor Hamas possess nuclear weapons that I am aware of, and trust me, they would flaunt them if they had them. This is the first I've heard that someone actually believes this. Where is this coming from?
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 02:36 |
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Feral Integral posted:I keep hearing conflicting poo poo on this - does Palestine have or not have nuclear weapons? Uh. Israel has nukes. We don't know the extent of their program and the Israeli government has never admitted to having produced any, but the whistle got blown on them 30 years ago. They're not party to the Non-Proliferation Treaty since they refuse to be recognized as a nuclear-armed state, though it's basically an open secret. The only weapons produced in Palestine are rockets fueled by piss and common household ingredients. They don't even have a regular payload. There is no way on earth Palestine has any nukes and I'm where curious where you heard that.
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 02:38 |
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Feral Integral posted:I keep hearing conflicting poo poo on this - does Palestine have or not have nuclear weapons? If Palestine had nukes, they would have used them.
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 02:45 |
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Main Paineframe posted:It's an utter disaster for Israel - the next couple years will be great for the Israeli right, but in the long-term it could seriously hurt Israel's support in the US. Israel's relationship with the Diaspora is already rather delicate, since the Haredi parties have disproportionate power in the government and have used it to carve out all sorts of special privileges for themselves while relegating non-Orthodox Jews to second-class status, and Netanyahu's repeated attempts to turn foreign Jews into unpaid envoys for his foreign policy have been causing concern in the Diaspora. I don't think this take holds up on a few levels. We're in for four years of Trump, and then he'll probably lose to a generic R or a generic D. None of those possibilities, especially given the makeup of Congress, are likely to enact any sort of consequences on Likud. Secondly, this notion of a growing dichotomy is not really true. There is a left wing contingent, ranging from J Street to BDS supporters, who are increasingly loud. There's no evidence however that they're growing in number however. The only consistent demographic trend among American Jewry is the middle is disappearing, as they are becoming either increasingly disengaged, secular, and disinterested (as opposed to hostile) in anything Jewish. Or on the other side, the Modern Orthodox dutifully have 3-4 children and the Haredim don't believe in birth control at all. This is also in the context of Israel having a Likud government for 7 years. Having the left or center in place, even without significant policy changes, would lead to a lot more sympathetic coverage internationally.
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 04:30 |
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Feral Integral posted:I keep hearing conflicting poo poo on this - does Palestine have or not have nuclear weapons? I can neither confirm nor deny that.
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 11:48 |
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Feral Integral posted:I keep hearing conflicting poo poo on this - does Palestine have or not have nuclear weapons? Yeah they've been working with the Pakistanis for years - I wouldn't be surprised if they have access to WMDs.
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 12:19 |
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(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 12:25 |
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Neither the Palestinian Authority nor Hamas possess nuclear weapons that I am aware of, and trust me, they would flaunt them if they had them. This is the first I've heard that someone actually believes this. Where is this coming from? shrike82 posted:Yeah they've been working with the Pakistanis for years - I wouldn't be surprised if they have access to WMDs. Well that kinda answered your question Lol if u dont think Israel would have used WMDs in Palestine as cause for an actual all out war if there was a shred of evidence pointing towards that.
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 12:44 |
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Don't forget that Gaza will be unlivable by 2020, so that's a third of the Palestinian population who are guaranteed not to make it out of Trump's presidency alive.
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 12:55 |
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Pretty sure gaza is unliveable right now, the whole 2020 thing is just a way to make it appear as though there's some support net in place for all those people or anyone other than unrwa/palestinian diaspora cares.
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 13:39 |
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Feral Integral posted:I keep hearing conflicting poo poo on this - does Palestine have or not have nuclear weapons? Pakistan, an entirely different country in an entirely different place, has nuclear weapons. Palestine doesn't even have drinkable water. Kim Jong Il posted:I don't think this take holds up on a few levels. We're in for four years of Trump, and then he'll probably lose to a generic R or a generic D. None of those possibilities, especially given the makeup of Congress, are likely to enact any sort of consequences on Likud. It will grow if Trump's Israel ambassador keeps declaring publicly that Jews who don't support Israel aren't Jewish. The Dems had a tough fight to keep pro-Palestine stuff out of the party platform in 2016, and Trump is going to burn Dem support for Israel right down. American Jews are already overwhelmingly secular, non-Orthodox, left-leaning, and Democratic-voting. Orthodox and Haredi Jewish communities are growing faster, but they're much smaller, and have significant problems fitting into American society. Also, while the Modern Orthodox are super-pro-Israel, Haredi Jews are only slightly more pro-Israel than Conservative Jews, and their views on most social issues are so far to the right that they largely shut themselves out of national politics anyway.
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 21:16 |
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What is this dumb poo poo about Obama trying to hack the Israeli election "just like the Russians did to America" that the nuts on my Facebook are posting because I can't remember a drat thing about something like that
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 21:51 |
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rscott posted:What is this dumb poo poo about Obama trying to hack the Israeli election "just like the Russians did to America" that the nuts on my Facebook are posting because I can't remember a drat thing about something like that If anything it was the opposite, with Republicans allowing Netanyahu to give a speech to the Two Houses of Congress weeks before Israeli election day.
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 22:03 |
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They're a bit late on the election business..
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 22:29 |
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rscott posted:What is this dumb poo poo about Obama trying to hack the Israeli election "just like the Russians did to America" that the nuts on my Facebook are posting because I can't remember a drat thing about something like that That accusation is a few years old. As I recall, the main basis of the accusation is that the US government once gave grant money to an Israeli non-profit that later (after the grant expired and the money was gone) backed Netanyahu's opponents in an election, or something like that. There's no real reason for it to come up now, though, since the last Israeli election was a couple years ago. Only thing I can imagine is Netanyahu trying to spite Obama and reach out a friendly hand to Trump.
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# ? Dec 17, 2016 22:46 |
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Obama clearly favored Herzog and the Republicans clearly favored Netanyahu. There is a long history going back to the 90s of American influence in Israeli campaigns on both sides. What's up for debate was whether this was personal for Obama due to Netanyahu's repeated snubs and favoritism of Romney, or just trying to put his thumb on the scale like Bill Clinton did.Main Paineframe posted:It will grow if Trump's Israel ambassador keeps declaring publicly that Jews who don't support Israel aren't Jewish. The Dems had a tough fight to keep pro-Palestine stuff out of the party platform in 2016, and Trump is going to burn Dem support for Israel right down. I don't think it will. It's a community that's largely disengaged, they're not hysterically reading Forward. The average Jewish American is something like a 55 year old Hillary Clinton supporter with moderate views. In fact, there are quite a lot of really partisan D Jews who are also rabidly Zionist. Everyone has an aunt like Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Left-leaning doesn't mean rabidly drinking the Sanders kool aid, in fact they were definitively against him. It's certainly a very progressive group on issues like gay rights, but not so much on economics (more than anything they want Bill Clinton style subservience to the middle class) and definitely foreign policy. I wasn't trying to imply that the Haredim are Zionist, but they are largely Republican. They only vote D when it's going to be a landslide or they can horsetrade their votes for kick backs, as often happens in NY politics. Conservative Jews are a fair bit more Zionist, but in comparison the Modern Orthodox aren't that different from Evangelicals.
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# ? Dec 18, 2016 22:39 |
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Well, after the Amona settlers rejected previous offers from the Israeli government, the Knesset stayed up all night to put together a deal for the demolition of Amona that the settlers were finally willing to accept, just barely a week before the High Court's deadline. The government will confiscate a plot of land right next to Amona and pay to put half the settlement's residents in mobile homes there until a more permanent settlement can be built. The remaining residents will be temporarily relocated to another settlement at the government's expense until permanent housing for them can be found. In addition, the government will pay to build that permanent housing for them, and will also pay them about a million shekels ($260,000) per person in no-strings-attached cash. The total cost of the offer is about 140 million shekels. On the same day that the plan was offered, the cabinet also suddenly offered and passed a proposal to cut the government budget by two percent, or 1.2 billion shekels, with that money instead going to Haredi education, the Amona relocation deal, and a couple of other things that the coalition has passed but not paid for. This seems to causing some resentment, as quite a few political figures seem sour that the coalition is cutting the budgets of every government ministry - including the Ministries of Health, Education, and Public Safety - in the name of austerity while giving a billion shekels to Haredi religious schools and a hundred million shekels to bribe the Amona settlers to leave peacefully. Even then, though, a peaceful Amona deal is not assured. Although the hilltop youth who had gathered to resist the evacuation seem to be dispersing, there are still two potential stumbling blocks for the deal. The first is that although the government claims the plot they plan to put the evacuees on is of unknown ownership and therefore eligible to be seized by the state, anti-settlement NGOs claim that they've found the legal owner of the land, and therefore the government can't declare it "absentee" and revert its ownership back to the state. The second is that the government will not be able to carry out the deal before the Dec 25th deadline for Amona's evacuation, and therefore it needs to convince the court to grant an extension...but the only reason the Dec 25 deadline is even a concern in the first place is because the court stopped granting extensions, because the government has been using them to delay the evacuation for years. Kim Jong Il posted:I don't think it will. It's a community that's largely disengaged, they're not hysterically reading Forward. The average Jewish American is something like a 55 year old Hillary Clinton supporter with moderate views. In fact, there are quite a lot of really partisan D Jews who are also rabidly Zionist. Everyone has an aunt like Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Left-leaning doesn't mean rabidly drinking the Sanders kool aid, in fact they were definitively against him. It's certainly a very progressive group on issues like gay rights, but not so much on economics (more than anything they want Bill Clinton style subservience to the middle class) and definitely foreign policy. All I'm saying is that American Jewish support for Zionism after a couple of years of Friedman. They may not obsessively read Forward, but it's going to be harder to stay ignorant when an Arutz Sheva writer is literally the US ambassador to Israel.
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# ? Dec 19, 2016 18:17 |
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A new front in the war on Christmas: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.760284 quote:After Rabbi Elad Dokow calls tree an 'affront to Jewish identity on campus,' Technion says in response that it 'allows students from all religions to express themselves with respect and tolerance.' People have been nicely melting down on the student's facbook page all day over this goddamn tree. My take is that this rabbi is just trying generate some headlines and maybe get a pat on the back from Bennet before moving on to a more political roll. Bear Retrieval Unit fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Dec 21, 2016 |
# ? Dec 21, 2016 00:14 |
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Light unto nations? Are you kidding me? The country that bought back the apartheid state?
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 04:19 |
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normally for a work of this calibre i'd charge three hundred dollars. however i am a master and my structural integrity is great. i am reinforced with golden archways and concrete struts. my ornate barricades spiral down to meet the handsome river mid-flow into the sea. at its fork lies the delta, the alpha and the omega: my vagina, broad and forgiving, its supple valleys laced with deepset springs and aquifers. i begin to dance and my naked undulations form the characters of an ancient script. my cuneiform rear end. it says the time of false prophets is coming to an end. it says the television is laced with the poison of trapdoor spiders. it says the old wise callings of the dark are returning. it says the flavour of the pomegranate has never changed in several hundred thousand years of evolution. so help me this voice comes through me and i'm helpless in its embrace. it says the looking-glass towers will molt into silvery waterfalls. their debris will flood streets. the driftwood of burnt limbs. and it says the black smoke that will blot out the sun is the burning of stone - the burning of stone in a flame that can burn stone. sunken ruins are all that remain of the metropoli. democracy's cradle a grave. the desert and ocean fighting for dominance, yin and yang, water and sand, wildfires eating what's left of the trees as the rivers dry up and the grasses die of thirst. you idiots. look at you fighting over the true name when you know the Name can't be pronounced, can't be written, can't be recorded in the human mind, can't be allegorised or metaphorisised - so there is no real book, there is no true theory, the mystery is absolute and nobody is right or wrong. you fools. we're all heading for the edge of the cliff and not one of you can look past your pride over pure human superficial concerns long enough to change our direction. you fools, we're all going to die, white and black, jew and muslim, because that is what is foreseen and that is what shall be. amen
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 11:13 |
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here's how it begins. violence in turkey, war in syria. you know all that. then suddenly, an attack! unexpected but not surprising, in a volatile zone.. what happens then? calm peaceful authoritative america steps in to force a ceasefire? no! america takes sides! but we are all interconnected and suddenly the whole world is at war. it happens that quickly and that simply. the subtleties by which world war is triggered are beyond our comprehension - immaculate engineering of fate. does that mean all world wars are divinely ordained? gently caress if i know but i'm very frightened about the upcoming one
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 11:27 |
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it will be a coalition of countries against the united states, i can tell you that much
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 11:27 |
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post
Friendly Factory fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Jun 4, 2018 |
# ? Dec 21, 2016 11:32 |
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be quiet you idiot. you'll diminish in the face of ages. in less than a century nobody will even remember your name.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 11:35 |
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Friendly Factory posted:how is your shtick not over yet Alcoholism i think What would Ariel say? Not much because he is dead and spent many years as a vegetable
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 12:19 |
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Friendly Factory posted:how is your shtick not over yet Silence the unbelievers.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 12:38 |
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man, shut the gently caress up.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:14 |
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Ultramega posted:man, shut the gently caress up. She's the best poster in the thread.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:38 |
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fool_of_sound posted:She's the best poster in the thread. It's starting to wear a little thin, since it happens so often relative to the actual on-topic posting.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 17:11 |
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we live in troubled times
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 19:31 |
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It's cool when I see 20+ new posts in a thread and I go "wow this thread is normally pretty quiet, what happened now" and like, 90% of the time it's Avshalom's dumb gimmick posting.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 19:37 |
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you'll be thankful for it someday, you blind ingrate
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 19:44 |
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DrProsek posted:It's cool when I see 20+ new posts in a thread and I go "wow this thread is normally pretty quiet, what happened now" and like, 90% of the time it's Avshalom's dumb gimmick posting. I'd rather read Avshalom's posts than read up on some new atrocity that no one's going to do anything about.
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 20:04 |
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so be it then you wretches, you jew-haters, you ugly little men, you sons of pigs, you whose mothers slept with pigs, you whose fathers slept with pigs, you whose sisters have the back end and whose brothers have the front end of pigs, you sentient puddles of pork lard slopped over decomposing computer chairs in the wan light of screens, you who ignore the beam in your own eye as you grunt "the jews! the jews!" and slaver over the age-old myth of the blood libel, the butchered christian baby, the poisoned well, the dead messiah. you goy trash. you lumpen and misshapen bottom feeders. you disgust me and i am through with you, for i am a hot fat slut and you are nothing but a ship of fools. i denounce you in the name of ariel and the innumerable names of g-d
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 21:36 |
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# ? May 19, 2024 11:47 |
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amen
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# ? Dec 21, 2016 21:40 |