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In my estimate, the #1 reason the extreme right dominates online discourse is that the political spectrum of the English-speaking world is infinitesimally narrow and exists entirely within the boundaries of what would be considered "right wing" - ie. that avowed and dedicated Socialists and their fellow travelers on the left are in the extreme minority, to the degree that I would be very surprised if more than 50,000 of them existed in the United States. This would mean that actual left wingers (by which I mean to exclude liberals and Democrats who have shown time and time again they are unwilling to decisively reject right wing rhetoric) constitute less than one hundredth of one percent of the population. tldr; there are hardly any true lefties in america.
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Dec 21, 2016 05:43
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Neurolimal posted:Russian propaganda isn't very good. It's mostly related to RT and Assange (latter being dubious). Israel has a far more effective system than Russia's which crowdsources to people who genuinely hold their beliefs and directs them to highly visible areas. If we're going to start xenophobing there's way more significant targets than a frozen slab with drunkenly scribbled roadlines. Russian propaganda is not mostly RT and Assange. Setting aside all the other media the government directly controls for domestic use, or the various other foreign dissidents and fringe groups the Russian government supports, there are several outfits whose whole job is to troll and/or flood messageboards and comment sections on conventional media. We know the locations of a couple of these outfits because the media have publicly reported on them, and people who worked for them later did interviews.
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Dec 21, 2016 05:44
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Discendo Vox posted:Russian propaganda is not mostly RT and Assange. Setting aside all the other media the government directly controls for domestic use, or the various other foreign dissidents and fringe groups the Russian government supports, there are several outfits whose whole job is to troll and/or flood messageboards and comment sections on conventional media. We know the locations of a couple of these outfits because the media have publicly reported on them, and people who worked for them later did interviews. Literally every country, company, or individual worth more than 10 million dollars has people hired to shitpost. This isn't a stunning display of competency.
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Dec 21, 2016 05:54
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analogy6 posted:tldr; there are hardly any true lefties in america. More than 12 million people voted for Bernie Sanders.
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Dec 21, 2016 05:56
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:That is pretty much the reason the alt right dominates so much of the internet. The constant threat that if everyone doesn't use their terms that they will run off and heil hitler or whatever. It seems like the opposite is true, really. I get to hear people complain that there's no point in arguing with idiots in comments sections while simultaneously complaining that the comments sections are full of loons. I dunno, maybe there's a causal relationship there...? dont even fink about it posted:Should leftists be retaliating with doxes, DDOSes, or utterly insignificant online poll rushes? I think Weedhitler bonerlord has that last one covered.
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Dec 21, 2016 06:01
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Neurolimal posted:Literally every country, company, or individual worth more than 10 million dollars has people hired to shitpost. This isn't a stunning display of competency. If this is true then it's probably a waste of money for most of them.
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Dec 21, 2016 06:12
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:More than 12 million people voted for Bernie Sanders. I claim that Bernie Sanders is liberal, not leftist. Note the similarity in rhetoric in both the Trump and Sanders campaign. Here is an article from the major Trotskyite organization in the US rejecting Sanders' socialist credentials. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/08/29/pers-a29.html
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Dec 21, 2016 06:15
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Neurolimal posted:Literally every country, company, or individual worth more than 10 million dollars has people hired to shitpost. This isn't a stunning display of competency. 10 million isn't a crazy value anymore. I'm not sure what the cost of shitposters nowadays is, but it seems as though the money would be better pissed away elsewhere for a company at the threshold of your example.
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Dec 21, 2016 06:17
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:hey look it's adam curtis' autistic nephew the rest of the video: jews are increasing multiculturalism/immigration in white countries to influence white women to create a generation of low iq (of course it goes there... of course) people who can be easily controlled by them ......... ... so lowtax just lets anybody advertise on his site, i guess..
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Dec 21, 2016 06:46
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what's a cuck?
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Dec 21, 2016 06:49
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the rest of the video is just a montage of some immigrants rioting, looting, and robbing again, i can only surmise that lowtax lets anyone advertise on his site
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Dec 21, 2016 06:55
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Kenzie posted:The only reason Something Awful is a left wing echo chamber instead of right wing is because of lots of heavy-handed moderation, and outright bans for racist comments. A glance at the Leper's Colony for a single day reveals enormous numbers of probations and bans. Even in GBS they'll ban people for outright racism. the mccain and romney toxes had a lot to do with it. Recoome posted:what's a cuck? you
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Dec 21, 2016 07:16
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It's because they have thicker skin. Liberals are really fast to block people and create ineffective echo chambers that are self soothing but prevent the crucial self criticism necessary to build ideological discipline. For example, on twitter, liberals create mass blocking apps to shield them from even seeing opposing points of view, while white supremacists will debate and argue and fight and keep going. That makes a huge difference in how ideas come to win in the meme-verse
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Dec 21, 2016 07:33
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I find it much easier to talk to horrible right wingers that I disagree with because we can at least have discussions and either try to find points of common ground or at least find areas where we need to reexamine our own positions. Liberals always block and ignore and flip out when challenged 
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Dec 21, 2016 07:40
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Commie NedFlanders posted:For example, on twitter, liberals create mass blocking apps to shield them from even seeing opposing points of view, while white supremacists will debate and argue and fight and keep going.
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Dec 21, 2016 07:41
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Commie NedFlanders posted:It's because they have thicker skin. Liberals are really fast to block people and create ineffective echo chambers that are self soothing but prevent the crucial self criticism necessary to build ideological discipline. yeah, *heh*, thin-skinned "liberals" wowzers
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Dec 21, 2016 07:41
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Gail Wynand posted:And those apps ironically end up blocking a lot of other liberals who follow RW Twitter accounts to argue with them or just for the comedy/intel value. It's true, in the efforts to silence opposing voices, liberals are hobbling themselves and making themselves less and less effective in he arena of public discourse
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Dec 21, 2016 07:47
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analogy6 posted:I claim that Bernie Sanders is liberal, not leftist. Note the similarity in rhetoric in both the Trump and Sanders campaign. Here is an article from the major Trotskyite organization in the US rejecting Sanders' socialist credentials. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/08/29/pers-a29.html Ok sure, if you define the left wing to the 50,000 people you decided have passed your purity test then there are 50,000 leftists. Today, I have decided that there are only three "true socks" in my sock drawer.
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Dec 21, 2016 08:25
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Commie NedFlanders posted:It's because they have thicker skin. Liberals are really fast to block people and create ineffective echo chambers that are self soothing but prevent the crucial self criticism necessary to build ideological discipline. Yeah, the moment some progressive responds to a person providing a counterpoint with a 'you are blocked', most people give the victory to the person who was blocked. Its a point of pride on twitter for the alt-right when their lengthy twitter response to a radical progressive view is blocked, instead of the progressive actually engaging in debate and conversation. And to people who dont really affiliate with either party, it makes the progressive who do that look like intellectual cowards who cannot defend their position if they block someone for responding with a counteragruement.
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Dec 21, 2016 09:00
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To answer the OP, it's gotten a lot better. Remember newsgroups? Nothing but libertarians. As more non-white men started using the internet, the better it's become. Tumblr, twitter, heck even SA has become better - remember all the Ron Paul banners in 08? Fansy fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 09:13
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analogy6 posted:I claim that Bernie Sanders is liberal, not leftist. Note the similarity in rhetoric in both the Trump and Sanders campaign. Here is an article from the major Trotskyite organization in the US rejecting Sanders' socialist credentials. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/08/29/pers-a29.html As a Trotskyist, I would like to point out that while most US Trotskyists would agree that Sanders isn't a socialist (it's not really a contestable point if you're using a Marxist definition of socialism) WSWS/the SEP are an ultraleft fringe group that no one really likes whose main claim to fame is a conspiracy theory that the US SWP was complicit in Trotsky's assassination. I wouldn't call them "the major Trotskyist organization in the US" - insofar as that's a meaningful term it probably best describes Socialist Alternative. Also "Trotskyite" is a slur. The term is "Trotskyist".
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Dec 21, 2016 09:37
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I think that the environments where the discussion takes place makes the difference if the far right (which I'm taking to mean MRAs, neo-nazis, moldbug, etc, not just an average trump voter) seems to dominate it. Twitter & Reddit both want to be a place were literally anyone can talk about literally anything because that's how you get those engagement metrics up, so they're reluctant to ban anyone for good no matter how toxic they are. Until it threatens the engagement of other people (Milo attacking Leslie on twitter), they're going to turn a blind eye. The operators of it really want to come off as impartial, and that's a theme that's been around since Usenet: check out the Serdar Argic event.Pharohman777 posted:Yeah, the moment some progressive responds to a person providing a counterpoint with a 'you are blocked', most people give the victory to the person who was blocked. This works as example of how the environment will encourage different behaviour. In a place where people will be held to facts and actual reasonable lines of inquiry and can't dip into the shitstorm of gamergate logic, just saying 'not gonna discuss this, blocked' is generally a dumb move. But spending time trying to convince twitter eggs that a pizza place isn't running an international child trafficking ring in the basement is just a waste of time, might as well block them and move on.
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Dec 21, 2016 09:53
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OneEightHundred posted:This thread got started in the first place because the alt-right is apparently overrunning discussion venues, that's kind of the opposite of running off at the first sign of trouble. Run off with the conversation, not physically run away. The guy threatening that if he saw jokes he's teen become a nazi. Owlofcreamcheese fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 13:06
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Commie NedFlanders posted:It's true, in the efforts to silence opposing voices, liberals are hobbling themselves and making themselves less and less effective in he arena of public discourse I have no idea what is going on in other sites like Twitter, etc. because I don't read them, but this is definitely the case for many posters in D&D. There are some good liberal posters on this forum who make good, convincing arguments, but many liberal posters on this forum don't know how to do much more than cheerlead, write snarky posts aimed at conservatives, press the report button whenever someone writes a post that doesn't totally validate their worldview, or take the least charitable interpretation of posts by conservative posters and get really outraged. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 15:27
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silence_kit posted:I have no idea what is going on in other sites like Twitter, etc. because I don't read them, but this is definitely the case for many posters in D&D. wrong
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Dec 21, 2016 15:40
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Fried Watermelon posted:wrong That liberals can make good convincing arguments or that liberals tend to be idiot cheerleaders? Rogue0071 posted:As a Trotskyist, I would like to point out that while most US Trotskyists would agree that Sanders isn't a socialist (it's not really a contestable point if you're using a Marxist definition of socialism) WSWS/the SEP are an ultraleft fringe group that no one really likes whose main claim to fame is a conspiracy theory that the US SWP was complicit in Trotsky's assassination. I wouldn't call them "the major Trotskyist organization in the US" - insofar as that's a meaningful term it probably best describes Socialist Alternative. Are you a bad enough Trot to bcome the president?
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Dec 21, 2016 15:59
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Race Realists posted:
I'm pretty sure white nationalists would be more concerned with trying to paint the civil rights movement of the 60's as a bad thing.
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Dec 21, 2016 18:43
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Ok sure, if you define the left wing to the 50,000 people you decided have passed your purity test then there are 50,000 leftists. "Anti-capitalist y/n" is not a very difficult or esoteric test my friend, and i dont think anaology6 invented it Calibanibal fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 20:12
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Sulphuric rear end in a top hat posted:I'm pretty sure white nationalists would be more concerned with trying to paint the civil rights movement of the 60's as a bad thing. You just accused the MLK part of the Civil Rights movement as being "Anti-White" This is literally the rhetoric White Nationalists use to discredit him and the movement in general BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 21:54
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One thing that gets alt-right groups mad and ready to argue/mock is when radical progressives show their hypocricy/madness. For example, Overwatch just revealed that Tracer, the flagship/box art character, is a lesbian. Then johnathan Mcintosh, former writer for Anita Sarkessian says that 'no, its not good enough for Tracer to be lesbian, she needs to be unattractive to straight guys and not promote 'male gaze' https://mobile.twitter.com/thegingerarchy/status/811344094979063808 Then someone asking how would you make straight guys uncomfortable with a lesbian character gets the answer 'make them a Real Woman instead'. Asking what critera make a 'real woman' gets the person asking blocked by mcintosh. http://thespectacularspider-girl.tumblr.com/post/154749582364/egaylitarian-foolish-writer-and-then-i-asked So Mcintosh wants Tracer to not be attractive under 'male gaze', but female gaze is perfectly acceptable. The attitude that a LGBT character is unacceptable unless it is not attractive to heterosexuals is implied by Mcintosh's remarks. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 21, 2016 22:00
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All the Overwatch characters are hot. Tracer isn't the most attractive to me but she is super cute so... She is also the mascot so her being gay is huge.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:19
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Outside the point (which is that blocking your opponent just gives the impression that he "won" to others), it's extra silly because sexy characters aren't inherently sexist, Overwatch has a variety of body types, and liking to feel sexy isn't unique to straight people (source: im bi).
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Dec 21, 2016 22:30
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Eimi posted:All the Overwatch characters are hot. Tracer isn't the most attractive to me but she is super cute so... Roadhog is extremely sexy IMO Of course, criticizing all progressives because one single person said a thing on Twitter is about as silly as criticizing all conservatives based on the words of a white supremacist UFO maniac (there's gotta be one, I just know it), and the only reason we're hearing about it is because that person is somehow related to a person that Gamergaters and other alt-right types stalk and harass obsessively for dumb reasons.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:48
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After reading this thread, I'd say that I've been convinced that far-right people aren't as big of a problem as they seemed to be when I made this, or at least the alt-right. I still have a big problem with how poo poo like Reddit and Twitter and Google are awful at preventing right-wingers from gaming their systems, however. It seems like they cannot deal with people spamming fake and/or right-wing biased news to the top of the site, and are generally unwilling to deal with terrible fucks like Milo Yabadabbadoopolis unless they piss off a sufficiently famous or rich person. Not to mention how 4chan is able to organize flash mobs to harass people and the site owner does nothing to stop it. My thoughts now are what exactly can be done about this stuff. How do you effectively pressure these omnipresent sites? No way you can loving boycott Google or Twitter or whatever now, there's way too many users, so hitting them in the wallet isn't an option. And how exactly do you get somebody who runs a site like 4chan to realize how ruinous it is to let their users do whatever idiot thing pops into their head?
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Dec 21, 2016 23:21
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Eh, I'd just summarise that by and large progressivism is winning the overall 'culture war' that reactionaries imagine exists. Obama wasn't wrong to say that the path of progress isn't a straight line but a zigzag. Right-wingers have their time in the sun right now but one of the things about change under democracy is it's rarely large things at once. It takes war or revolution. Trump's admin will suck, but the Republicans will find how hard it is to enact change quickly.
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Dec 21, 2016 23:31
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Pharohman777 posted:One thing that gets alt-right groups mad and ready to argue/mock is when radical progressives show their hypocricy/madness. Whoa holy poo poo. Pharohman777 here to put all the pieces together...connect all the dots. Thank you for your efforts in exposing the dread anti-gamer, anti-men conspiracy.
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Dec 21, 2016 23:39
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Pharohman777 in your bizarre conspiracy theories, just how involved are the Jews in using women to ruin videogames? Do you, like some of your ilk, think they're running the show, or are they just tangentially involved?
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Dec 21, 2016 23:44
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Truly, the left is dead because they failed to recognise the dilemma of ethics in games journalism.
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Dec 21, 2016 23:52
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Also with 4chan my understanding is that the owner has some realization of how horrible the monster they created is, like to my understanding they at least tried to ban gamergate poo poo. Maybe they are just like the Reddit owner and just support "all speech is free speech?"
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Dec 21, 2016 23:58
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Commie NedFlanders posted:I find it much easier to talk to horrible right wingers that I disagree with because we can at least have discussions and either try to find points of common ground or at least find areas where we need to reexamine our own positions. Think real hard and see if you can spot the difference between "being challenged" and "just having racist, homophobic, etc. slurs thrown at you all damned day."
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Dec 22, 2016 00:00
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