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Well, if God is literally spelling out things to you, you probably don't need faith as much as knowledge. As for the Heaven part, I mean it more from God's perspective than from man's. God knows (and you gits will know) I have an awful kneejerk reaction and I will balk at anything on the first sign that things aren't going well/are as easy as they seem, and no amoubt of rationalising will convince the me-in-the-moment that everything will be OK. So I don't think people go "meh, hurricanes, I'll die and go to Heaven anyways" Some less haphazard than me can also say something about letting us learn learn lessons about life ourselves instead of handholding us the entire time like a divine helicopter parent almost the size of a Mi-26. For example, WWII teaches us that giving away regions to an aggressive country to ensure peace isn't workable. *cough* CrimeaDonestkBalticsetc *cough* ...this also ties into an ongoing lesson of "a thing doesn't have to be literally perfect for you to like it" as Chapo seems Hell bent on trading Baltic states for peace. Back to thread tipic: so what is the Catholic doctrine on existance of Satan, demons and what is it that exorcists are supposed to be compelling with the power of Christ?
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Dec 21, 2016 10:16
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Josef bugman posted:Are we going to be looking at the organs of cattle or flights of birds next? Let's go full on Pagan and break the back of a bull over an altar and have done with it. (meant in jest, but seriously reading the entrails shouldn't be something we are doing at this point) all divination is good and cool if i manage to get to japan you better fuckin believe i'm gonna see a fortune teller. preferably a traditional one, if i wanted someone to read tarot cards i'd have let the "psychic" at the renaissance faire that thought my brother and i were a couple do a reading for me
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Dec 21, 2016 10:25
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Bel_Canto posted:I think they eliminated all irregularities of birth in the last major revision to the Code of Canon Law: I'm not seeing it listed among any impediments to ordination, and canon law is pretty clear that the only impediments are those explicitly enumerated. Given that Boba Fett is a clone, I see no reason why he'd be treated any differently than identical twins: he may share 100% of his genetic material with someone else (or even thousands of someones) but that doesn't stop him from being an individual with an individually-created soul. Can a frankenstein be a priest?
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Dec 21, 2016 10:28
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Mr Enderby posted:Can a frankenstein be a priest? Can you baptize it? I thought you might have to have been born, but weren't peeps cool with baptizing aliens who asked?
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Dec 21, 2016 10:30
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If we simulate a trad cat AI in a computer and then turn it off, does it go to heaven?
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Dec 21, 2016 10:40
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If a dude has all his body parts replaced by cybernetics one by one, can he be baptized? Asking for a friend
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Dec 21, 2016 10:41
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Mr Enderby posted:Can a frankenstein be a priest? Possibly, I don't think he was married. Other men in his family might also be eligible. The monster on the other hand...  pidan posted:If a dude has all his body parts replaced by cybernetics one by one, can he be baptized? Is the brain replaced? If so I would say no. Thirteen Orphans fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 10:43
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JcDent posted:Back to thread tipic: so what is the Catholic doctrine on existance of Satan, demons and what is it that exorcists are supposed to be compelling with the power of Christ? Cathechism of the Catholic Church posted:391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy. Scripture and the Church's Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called "Satan" or the "devil".267 The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing." Cathechism again posted:1673 When the Church asks publicly and authoritatively in the name of Jesus Christ that a person or object be protected against the power of the Evil One and withdrawn from his dominion, it is called exorcism. Jesus performed exorcisms and from him the Church has received the power and office of exorcizing. In a simple form, exorcism is performed at the celebration of Baptism. The solemn exorcism, called "a major exorcism," can be performed only by a priest and with the permission of the bishop. The priest must proceed with prudence, strictly observing the rules established by the Church. Exorcism is directed at the expulsion of demons or to the liberation from demonic possession through the spiritual authority which Jesus entrusted to his Church. Illness, especially psychological illness, is a very different matter; treating this is the concern of medical science. Therefore, before an exorcism is performed, it is important to ascertain that one is dealing with the presence of the Evil One, and not an illness. St John Paul II in 1987 posted:"The battle against the devil, which is the principal task of Saint Michael the archangel, is still being fought today, because the devil is still alive and active in the world. The evil that surrounds us today, the disorders that plague our society, man's inconsistency and brokenness, are not only the results of original sin, but also the result of Satan's pervasive and dark action." Additionally there is this 1975 document (e: okay, I can't get the link to work; you have to go to the Vatican page, search for "exorcism", go to page 3 of the results and then choose to look at the cached version of the document called "Christian Faith and Demonology") of the Congregation of Faith detailing Catholic doctrine on exorcism and demonology; the Catholic Encyclopedia (which was compiled in 1913 iirc, so it might be somewhat outdated, mind) has detailed articles on Devil, Exorcism, Exorcist, Demoniacs (i.e. people possessed by demons), Demonical Possession, Demons and Demonology; and lastly, if you speak German this 2009 dissertation extensively covers not only the treatment of exorcisms in popular media, but also the doctrinal and liturgical development and reality of it. I couldn't really check these sources out myself because I'm supposed to clean up the place, so it falls to you I'm afraid 
System Metternich fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 10:50
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Many thanks!
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Dec 21, 2016 11:02
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Thirteen Orphans posted:Possibly, I don't think he was married. Who'd want to marry a big green dude with a bolt through his neck? Not even Elsa Lanchester.
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Dec 21, 2016 11:06
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Mr Enderby posted:Who'd want to marry a big green dude scarlet johansson
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Dec 21, 2016 11:08
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Can a hulk be a priest?
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Dec 21, 2016 11:10
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a better question is can a hulk NOT be a priest makes you think
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Dec 21, 2016 11:16
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if gou are not already baptized, i baptize you with my giant green fists
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Dec 21, 2016 15:45
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I wanted to dual-race viking and hulk, but it would have been a fortune in torn leathers and not match my red beard at all
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Dec 21, 2016 15:48
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Bel_Canto posted:That's the end of the last complete sentence on the page. Thomistic anthropology is weird as hell. Thanks! This whole passage made me wonder if a priest was ever asked to baptize, say, conjoined twins, and then pulled out the ol' old Canon Law and asked who had sex with which farm animal because this is very important actually. Arsenic Lupin posted:Bel Canto, I'm curious: what's the theological difference between saying "I baptize you" and assuming it has no effect if the person is ineligible or already baptized; and saying "If you aren't already baptized / are capable of being baptized I baptize you"? I notice that there are several formulas of baptism you called out, as well as the ones for rebaptizing converts if their original baptism is of uncertain form, that are careful to specify that they're valid only where recognized. If you baptize somebody twice their sins are forgiven too much. There's an integer underflow and they immediately burst into flames and turn into Satan. Actually all this stuff floats around in liturgy to reinforce the idea that only humans can be baptized and you only can be baptized once. Who needs the remission of original sin? Descendants of Adam. How many times do you need original sin forgiven? Once. And of course there are tour packages popular among evangelicals to get themselves re-baptized in the Jordan but all they're really doing is taking a short swim. There are rules for what happens if a priest dies during consecration, but generally there's no unclear point in speaking the words of the institution. If he finishes them in Latin or an approved vernacular liturgy it's consecrated. If he dies before finishing them then it's not, and if you want to consecrate them you have to start the words of institution over again from the beginning. Here's an interesting thing: it's forbidden (and this word rarely comes up in Canon Law, actually, it's pretty severe) to consecrate one matter without the other, i.e. you can't just consecrate the Body and not the Blood. Using the English liturgy, if a priest dies before he finishes speaking "this is my body" in its entirety okay go home. If he dies after that and before "this is my blood" there's a problem here, because we can't have one without the other, and we'll have to find another priest to finish it pretty quickly. e: as a thought experiment, let's say someone comes into the classroom where Father Joe is teaching some eighth graders about confirmation. "Father Joe, there's been an emergency at Mass, come help!" And Father Joe comes into the sanctuary where Father Duc lies dead slumped over the altar. The ciborium and chalice are there. Father Joe doesn't speak Vietnamese, and can't ask any of the parishioners to ascertain how far Father Duc was into the consecration. Does he consecrate again? The Phlegmatist fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 16:12
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The Phlegmatist posted:
A moment later, a mouse runs away with the host.
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Dec 21, 2016 16:40
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P-Mack posted:A moment later, a mouse runs away with the host. Best course of action is to consecrate and eat the mouse.
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Dec 21, 2016 16:52
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The Phlegmatist posted:e: as a thought experiment, let's say someone comes into the classroom where Father Joe is teaching some eighth graders about confirmation. "Father Joe, there's been an emergency at Mass, come help!" And Father Joe comes into the sanctuary where Father Duc lies dead slumped over the altar. The ciborium and chalice are there. Father Joe doesn't speak Vietnamese, and can't ask any of the parishioners to ascertain how far Father Duc was into the consecration. Does he consecrate again?
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Dec 21, 2016 16:54
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Can I baptize my computer? For the sake of economia, I understand that I can use a sprinkle of water, but would the bread go in the dvd tray?
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Dec 21, 2016 16:55
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CountFosco posted:Can I baptize my computer? For the sake of economia, I understand that I can use a sprinkle of water, but would the bread go in the dvd tray? there's no bread involved in baptism, that's the eucharist which is a completely different sacrament
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Dec 21, 2016 16:58
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CountFosco posted:Can I baptize my computer? For the sake of economia, I understand that I can use a sprinkle of water, but would the bread go in the dvd tray? I can clear hexes on your computer for a very low fee
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Dec 21, 2016 16:59
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If an athlete says in a post-game interview "I want to thank God for winning this game!" is that blasphemy?
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Dec 21, 2016 17:07
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Tias posted:I can clear hexes on your computer for a very low fee hands off my wargames
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Dec 21, 2016 17:14
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Only in curling, because God doesn't want to have anything to do with that poo poo
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Dec 21, 2016 17:18
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Calvinist sports betting.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:30
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The Phlegmatist posted:If you baptize somebody twice their sins are forgiven too much. There's an integer underflow and they immediately burst into flames and turn into Satan.  Gives a whole new meaning to "halt and catch fire". e: quote:as a thought experiment, let's say someone comes into the classroom where Father Joe is teaching some eighth graders about confirmation. "Father Joe, there's been an emergency at Mass, come help!" And Father Joe comes into the sanctuary where Father Duc lies dead slumped over the altar. The ciborium and chalice are there. Father Joe doesn't speak Vietnamese, and can't ask any of the parishioners to ascertain how far Father Duc was into the consecration. Does he consecrate again? At this point, you just make a Perfect Act of Contrition For What I Am About To Do, consecrate the Blood, consume the whole drat ciborium, and hope God sorts it out. * to the Altar Guild ee: For maximum verisimilitude, the mass in question is the 10AM Wednesday mass, and the only people present were Mrs. Tranh's grandmother, Mrs. Tranh's great-aunt, and Mrs. Tranh's baby, whom her great-grandmother and great-great-aunt were babysitting. Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 18:03
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The Phlegmatist posted:If you baptize somebody twice their sins are forgiven too much. There's an integer underflow and they immediately burst into flames and turn into Satan. And Jesus ascended the mound, and He said to the people, "Hear my words children, for they are backed by NUCLEAR WEAPONS!"
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Dec 21, 2016 19:49
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Arsenic Lupin posted:
let me guess, father duc choked on an albatross sandwich that was given to him anonymously by the rival lutheran altar guild from across the street
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Dec 21, 2016 20:35
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Lutha Mahtin posted:let me guess, father duc choked on an albatross sandwich that was given to him anonymously by the rival lutheran altar guild from across the street capybara (it was friday at the time)
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Dec 21, 2016 20:36
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HEY GAL posted:capybara (it was friday at the time)
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Dec 21, 2016 20:42
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Mo Tzu posted:there's no bread involved in baptism, that's the eucharist which is a completely different sacrament A testament to human fallibility, I started off thinking of baptism and then started thinking of eucharist while remaining blissfully unaware that my line of thinking had changed.
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Dec 21, 2016 20:56
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I saw this a few weeks ago and just found the music vid. Thought it might be a nice Christmassey tune in its own way, and hells I am always the depressive one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddQMYWf1STc Will add responses to the questions asked in the thread soon.
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Dec 22, 2016 00:12
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Josef bugman posted:I saw this a few weeks ago and just found the music vid. Thought it might be a nice Christmassey tune in its own way, and hells I am always the depressive one: At least it's better than the original.
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Dec 22, 2016 01:33
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What are the threads feelings on the works of HP Lovecraft? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVFIWD1VmB0
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Dec 22, 2016 07:08
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Tias posted:What are the threads feelings on the works of HP Lovecraft? Lovecraft at his best does things like that moment in At the Mountains of Madness where the protagonist realizes that the ancient starfish-log-lobster aliens are just as scared as he is and struggling just as hard to understand a fundamentally hostile universe. Lovecraft at his worst is racist as hell, and more subtly but no less significantly, full of fear and disgust for the grotesque and abject.
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Dec 22, 2016 07:15
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As always, I find myself much more taken with the Jewish attitude towards the, er, unfathomable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYjCIor2C7E (e: in the sense that it's a Fiddler parody, and a little more lighthearted about God/elder gods; i realized that sounded kind of weird later) Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 07:17
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Cthulhu! How many ICBMs has he got?
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Dec 22, 2016 15:29
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Tias posted:What are the threads feelings on the works of HP Lovecraft? He's really overrated with an insane overly-worshipful fanbase. Like Haruki Murakami except even worse. Arsenic Lupin posted:ee: For maximum verisimilitude, the mass in question is the 10AM Wednesday mass, and the only people present were Mrs. Tranh's grandmother, Mrs. Tranh's great-aunt, and Mrs. Tranh's baby, whom her great-grandmother and great-great-aunt were babysitting. We have a pretty sizeable Vietnamese presence at our parish but none in the clergy or at the diocese level. So nobody at the rectory really knows the Vietnamese community that attends my parish and can't differentiate between this Duc Nguyen born in 1981 or that Duc Nguyen born in 1981. This has led to at least one instance where a Vietnamese man in my parish wanted to get married but was surprised to find out that according to the records in the rectory he was, actually, dead. The Phlegmatist fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 16:00
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One one hand, Lovecraft wrote some effective horror stories, on the other they're based on a) "The universe hates you and a loving God is a myth" and b) "black people are the devil" so I can't like them too much. (Declare is a pretty good novel that blends Lovecraftian horror with a Catholic worldview)
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Dec 22, 2016 16:11
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