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And Zahn is playing Karrde there.
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Dec 20, 2016 16:39
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:They should basically do a Netflix series adaptation of Wraith Squadron. Okay, but seriously: what are the odds that Disney will ever take the Marvel model to Star Wars? Was Jessica Jones really any more popular as an IP as plenty of the EU materials they could use for a TV series? I'm not really sure why they wouldn't go for something like this, but I haven't heard even a whisper that they're considering it. Maybe in a few years?
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Dec 20, 2016 19:28
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Megachile posted:Okay, but seriously: what are the odds that Disney will ever take the Marvel model to Star Wars? Was Jessica Jones really any more popular as an IP as plenty of the EU materials they could use for a TV series? I'm not really sure why they wouldn't go for something like this, but I haven't heard even a whisper that they're considering it. Maybe in a few years? I've thought this before, but really, adapting old EU books into movies/shows would be the logical thing to do to copy the MCU model. All the basic Marvel comics aren't part of MCU continuty, rather they mine them for ideas to use for the MCU adaptations while changing details to fit the movie continuity/legal adaptation rights. That seems like a logical thing to do here where there's a ton of stuff in the old EU history, but due to the supposed "everything is now equal canon" guideline, none of the new comics or books can be adapted because an adaptation would overwrite something that already exists in that continuity. But I get the sense that Marvel at least would really prefer people to forget that there were any Star Wars comics put out between 1991 and 2014. I remember when Marvel began its new run in 2015 there were plenty of media outlets reporting that it was "the first ever Star Wars comic" and all the new comic writers were talking in interviews about how they were huge Star Wars fans because they collected all the Phantom Menace cereal boxes or whatever, but then when an interviewer would ask them if they had ever read a Star Wars comic before, they'd say no.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:38
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Hopefully Disney will hold off on full scale Marvel saturation with Star Wars for as long as it can. Not to say that they're not aggressively marketing Star Wars but I imagine it's enjoying Star Wars as a hedge for when/if the MCU starts dropping off. We won't be seeing 4-5 TV shows and 2-3 movies a year for SW anytime soon. Are we getting Baby Han Solo and IX in the same year?
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Dec 20, 2016 21:44
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No; 2017 is episode VIII, 2018 is Han, 2019 is Episode IX.
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Dec 20, 2016 21:49
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Chairman Capone posted:I've thought this before, but really, adapting old EU books into movies/shows would be the logical thing to do to copy the MCU model. All the basic Marvel comics aren't part of MCU continuty, rather they mine them for ideas to use for the MCU adaptations while changing details to fit the movie continuity/legal adaptation rights. That seems like a logical thing to do here where there's a ton of stuff in the old EU history, but due to the supposed "everything is now equal canon" guideline, none of the new comics or books can be adapted because an adaptation would overwrite something that already exists in that continuity. Maybe that's part of the answer--they really don't want to use EU stuff for whatever reason, but don't think a show would have any pull without no existing IP. I get the sense that most people don't have the same idea of the franchise's potential breadth that we do here :/
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Dec 20, 2016 22:15
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I don't want a Marvel level of saturation, ever. Ideally you get a movie every couple of years or so, a tv series, a AAA game every few years, and a couple of books a year.
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Dec 20, 2016 23:06
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Chairman Capone posted:But I get the sense that Marvel at least would really prefer people to forget that there were any Star Wars comics put out between 1991 and 2014. I remember when Marvel began its new run in 2015 there were plenty of media outlets reporting that it was "the first ever Star Wars comic" and all the new comic writers were talking in interviews about how they were huge Star Wars fans because they collected all the Phantom Menace cereal boxes or whatever, but then when an interviewer would ask them if they had ever read a Star Wars comic before, they'd say no. They would sometimes talk about having read back issues of the craaaaaazy original Marvel books with the big green rabbit but other than that you could be forgiven for thinking Dark Horse never happened. Which is really weird because Marvel are publishing collections of the Dark Horse comics, and in the run up to TFA they were clearly prioritising them over Marvel superhero collections in the same publishing line. That said, one thing I've noticed since the division between Legends and the new canon is curious because it's the exact opposite of the MUH DARKSABER anti-Legends reaction; people who are very clearly aware of the Legends continuity but now act like ideas in the new canon which have been adapted from or explored in Legends stories are completely new ideas nobody has ever thought of before. For example, I remember an episode of Full of Sith where they discussed the first Aftermath novel and one of the hosts (I think it might have been Amy) comments on how they were thrilled that they're showing the war between the Empire and the Rebellion didn't end when they destroyed the Death Star, when Bryan Young in an episode very soon after or very close before that was talking about how he and Michael A. Stackpole had co-moderated an Aaron Allston memorial panel at a recent convention, so they're all clearly aware what sort of stuff Legends did.
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Dec 20, 2016 23:07
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Casimir Radon posted:I don't want a Marvel level of saturation, ever. Ideally you get a movie every couple of years or so, a tv series, a AAA game every few years, and a couple of books a year. That's a tough line for me. I'm not interested in the amount of content per se, but in the existence of a few great things. I picked Jessica Jones as an example because I want something that feels that distant from the story we see in the Saga films. Rogue One scratched some of that itch, but obv it's still way too full of easter eggs and cameos and couldn't be more directly linked to the OT. I don't necessarily care how much trash they produce that I can just skip, but it's hard to know whether producing lots of content would make it more or less likely for any of them to be great. I'm not a Marvel fan so I don't really know how well that experience informs this question.
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Dec 20, 2016 23:20
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Wheat Loaf posted:They would sometimes talk about having read back issues of the craaaaaazy original Marvel books with the big green rabbit but other than that you could be forgiven for thinking Dark Horse never happened. Which is really weird because Marvel are publishing collections of the Dark Horse comics, and in the run up to TFA they were clearly prioritising them over Marvel superhero collections in the same publishing line. What gets me is that 10-15 years ago, the old Marvel run is the sort of thing the 'mainstream' Star Wars fans would all point to and laugh at as how terrible the EU was. And now that Marvel has the license again all those 'regular' fans love Jaxxon and wants him back. But I guess that's because Marvel is now the definition of cool, as is 'ironically' liking bad things. Also explains why those same people love Howard the Duck. Wheat Loaf posted:That said, one thing I've noticed since the division between Legends and the new canon is curious because it's the exact opposite of the MUH DARKSABER anti-Legends reaction; people who are very clearly aware of the Legends continuity but now act like ideas in the new canon which have been adapted from or explored in Legends stories are completely new ideas nobody has ever thought of before. For example, I remember an episode of Full of Sith where they discussed the first Aftermath novel and one of the hosts (I think it might have been Amy) comments on how they were thrilled that they're showing the war between the Empire and the Rebellion didn't end when they destroyed the Death Star, when Bryan Young in an episode very soon after or very close before that was talking about how he and Michael A. Stackpole had co-moderated an Aaron Allston memorial panel at a recent convention, so they're all clearly aware what sort of stuff Legends did. I remember that episode too - I remember they also were talking about how they liked that it showed off that the Empire put down the uprising on Coruscant from the end of ROTJ because that solved the 'problem' of how that fit in, even though the scene was pretty much a direct adaptation of what Stackpole himself wrote back when the SEs came out to explain it. Kind of going along with this, given the Aftermath talk, is the people who were super excited for Wedge to be in the book, even though any excitement about him has to be rooted in his EU portrayal because just going from the new canon, he's essentially a complete cypher and a third-tier character with five lines total or so. Or I guess going along with what I said above, the people who talked poo poo on Zahn and how happy they were his stories got un-canonized now going ballistic with excitement at Thrawn being in Rebels. Incidentally, I did listen to the latest Full of Sith that came out just after Rogue One, and apparently that is Amy's last episode, so I guess it will just be Mike and Bryan now. Might be an improvement. Megachile posted:That's a tough line for me. I'm not interested in the amount of content per se, but in the existence of a few great things. I picked Jessica Jones as an example because I want something that feels that distant from the story we see in the Saga films. Rogue One scratched some of that itch, but obv it's still way too full of easter eggs and cameos and couldn't be more directly linked to the OT. I don't necessarily care how much trash they produce that I can just skip, but it's hard to know whether producing lots of content would make it more or less likely for any of them to be great. I'm not a Marvel fan so I don't really know how well that experience informs this question. I think this is a problem with what is essentially the new EU/spinoff stuff too, not just the movies. The comics either directly follow OT characters or TFA characters in the one case; the novels are all about setting up Leia for TFA or bridging Ahsoka between TCW and Rebels, etc.
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Dec 21, 2016 00:01
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Megachile posted:That's a tough line for me. I'm not interested in the amount of content per se, but in the existence of a few great things. I picked Jessica Jones as an example because I want something that feels that distant from the story we see in the Saga films. Rogue One scratched some of that itch, but obv it's still way too full of easter eggs and cameos and couldn't be more directly linked to the OT. I don't necessarily care how much trash they produce that I can just skip, but it's hard to know whether producing lots of content would make it more or less likely for any of them to be great. I'm not a Marvel fan so I don't really know how well that experience informs this question.
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Dec 21, 2016 00:34
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I prefer milqtoast Disney star wars to 2008. Nothing will beat that year for badness in star wars if only because Invincible is the most mean spirited, hateful book that ever had the license slapped on it.
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Dec 21, 2016 00:54
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Casimir Radon posted:All the same I don't want them damaging the brand with a bunch of poo poo. It would be too much like 2005-2013 all over again. My personal preference is for Star Wars to market itself as a classier brand than Marvel or DC. That's an interesting point too. For me the brand is just so inherently tarnished that that thought doesn't really even cross my mind. But maybe Disney is providing more of an opportunity for a fresh start than I'm giving it credit for.
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Dec 21, 2016 00:56
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Arcsquad12 posted:I prefer milqtoast Disney star wars to 2008. Nothing will beat that year for badness in star wars if only because Invincible is the most mean spirited, hateful book that ever had the license slapped on it. I don't remember Invincible at all. Which was that?
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Dec 21, 2016 01:02
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Arcsquad12 posted:I prefer milqtoast Disney star wars to 2008. Nothing will beat that year for badness in star wars if only because Invincible is the most mean spirited, hateful book that ever had the license slapped on it. Even leading up to that series, the NJO itself was a massive frustrating exercise in wasted opportunities and potential, rooted in that very same kind of mean spiritedness and hate. That poo poo had to have driven off an entire generation of fans.
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Dec 21, 2016 01:02
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ImpAtom posted:I don't remember Invincible at all. Which was that? Last book of legacy of the force, by Troy Denning
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Dec 21, 2016 01:03
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KOTOR II movie when?VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Last book of legacy of the force, by Troy Denning Obligatory "gently caress Troy Denning"
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Dec 21, 2016 01:25
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StashAugustine posted:KOTOR II movie when?
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Dec 21, 2016 01:27
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Star Wars doesn't have to be a lovely franchise. My main point seems to be that it's easier to do quality control when you don't have so many irons on the fire. I prefer theu just put out movies that are at a bare minimum "good", instead of the Marvel/DC model which has a couple of movies a year at minimum, and goes *fart "Oh well, we'll just reboot it later" when one sucks.VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Even leading up to that series, the NJO itself was a massive frustrating exercise in wasted opportunities and potential, rooted in that very same kind of mean spiritedness and hate.
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Dec 21, 2016 01:38
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Even leading up to that series, the NJO itself was a massive frustrating exercise in wasted opportunities and potential, rooted in that very same kind of mean spiritedness and hate. It drove me off. The last book I ever read was one of the early NJO books.
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Dec 21, 2016 02:22
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Tumblr of scotch posted:Hopefully never, there would be no way for any movie to do it justice without being like 15 hours long. 20 hours if they do all the sidequests.
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Dec 21, 2016 04:13
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Still, I will say that the essential guides are great reads, and new essential chronology, despite its innacuracies at times, was excellent for binding the disparate stories together. New chronology is good because the NJO and other failed projects are more interesting to read about than to actually be read. The Warfare guide's in universe breakdowns of the stupider books are also great. I've now seen the film twice, and while I enjoyed the second viewing more, it has also solidified my impression that the film is "good, but completely unnecessary." There is very little character development for anyone outside of Jyn and Cassian, and they are extremely barebones. There are obvious spots in the film where character could have shone through, but the dialogue in those scenes is focused on function over form. Rather than a sideways mention about where they are going and what they are doing as an excuse to delve into character moments, the scenes just have the expositional dialogue, and then end. Krennic is a fun villain, the poor bastard stuck in middle management who has to meet deadlines and is constantly screwed over by the CEO, so he takes it out on his subordinates. The guy playing him is perfectly scummy, and he is just entertaining to watch. Too big for his britches. CGI is on the whole really good. However, there are two instances of CGI which are really distracting, but then there are two which are really, really impressive and had a lot of cheers in the audience. The first half of the movie has severe pacing issues which I am almost certain are a result of the reshoots, but the second half is a big improvement, and it also has THAT SCENE, which is one of the most self indulgent, amazing moments in the franchise that had everyone in shock. So good and so worth it. The reshoots also resulted in Desplat's score getting replaced with Giacchino, and it is bad. Maybe not as horrible as I first thought, but I still stand by saying there are only really two standout tracks in the score, and of those, only one of them is good. The other track is a reworking of the original Star Wars theme which is so embarassing it robbed the scenes it appeared in of any pathos and threw me out of the moment completely. The second theme, however, is a great villain tune for the Empire and Krennic. The Imperial Suite has a great march feel to it and fits the Empire perfectly. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 04:13
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I do want to say I appreciate Forrest Whitaker using the same acting style he used in battlefield earth for his character.
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Dec 21, 2016 05:37
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I counted two visual shoutouts to Dune and one literal shoutout to Dune. As Applewhite pointed out in another thread, Jyn's assumed name when she's picked up by the Rebels is Halleck. Saw's Rebels are basically the Fremen, except instead of Spice, they are raiding Kyber Crystal convoys. The Boogalit tentacle Monster bears a strong resemblance to the Navigator from the David Lynch film.
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Dec 21, 2016 05:48
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Arcsquad12 posted:I counted two visual shoutouts to Dune and one literal shoutout to Dune. I noticed that about Jyn, too. Lyanna Halleck if I recalled, so first name also perhaps a Game of Thrones/Song of Ice and Fire reference. There were a few clear Apocalypse Now visual callbacks, too. Plus the very opening with Krennic's shuttle flying across the dark side of the planet was an obvious Alien reference, and the planet where Cassian first appears an obvious Blade Runner references.
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Dec 21, 2016 05:55
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tribbledirigible posted:20 hours if they do all the sidequests. I really really wanna play KOTOR II again and I really really don't want to sit through 30 hours of lovely D&D combat
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Dec 21, 2016 06:21
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StashAugustine posted:I really really wanna play KOTOR II again and I really really don't want to sit through 30 hours of lovely D&D combat Just read Scorchy's LP and embrace Jesus Jedi.
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Dec 21, 2016 06:28
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Arcsquad12 posted:I prefer milqtoast Disney star wars to 2008. Nothing will beat that year for badness in star wars if only because Invincible is the most mean spirited, hateful book that ever had the license slapped on it. But it's so adult and mature!! Do u want people 2 think Star Wars is 4 kids?!!!
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Dec 21, 2016 09:28
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Wheat Loaf posted:But it's so adult and mature!! Do u want people 2 think Star Wars is 4 kids?!!! Of the final four series they did I'd rank them in quality starting from best with NJO, FOTJ, DN, and LOTF. There's a major drop off in quality between NJO abd FOTJ so these are by no means equal intervals. NJO I can respect for trying something new even though it failed. FOTJ is pretty terrible and was a lovely way for the EU to go out. Technically Crucible was the final book for the EU, and was probably the best thing Denning ever wrote, but FOTJ was the final series. Dark Nest was dumb, gave us the bug orgies, and was all Denning all the time. LOTF is just plain the worst loving thing in the EU. There isn't anything stupider or more depressing than it.
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Dec 21, 2016 09:43
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Casimir Radon posted:Well that's what Denning seemed to think anyway which explains why he kept doing the same thing over and over again for 10 years. 2008 also brought us TFU which is one of the things I'm most grateful is wiped out. Was going to suggest a counterpoint, but on further reflection, I suppose Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor doesn't quite balance any of that out.  quote:Technically Crucible was the final book for the EU, and was probably the best thing Denning ever wrote, but FOTJ was the final series. I think Tatooine Ghost was Denning's best book, but I've never bothered with Crucible.
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Dec 21, 2016 10:10
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The latest book for the EU was Vision of the Future and nothing can convince me otherwise (actually Survivor's Quest but w/e)
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Dec 21, 2016 15:14
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Shadows of Mindor and Mercy Kill are on my list.
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Dec 21, 2016 15:36
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StashAugustine posted:The latest book for the EU was Vision of the Future and nothing can convince me otherwise Do you mean chronologically or publication-wise?
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Dec 21, 2016 16:51
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Chronologically, there's some decent stuff written after that
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Dec 21, 2016 17:00
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Right, because I was gonna mention Outbound Flight.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:47
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I don't like Galen's master sabotage plan setting up the death star as an intentional failure. I enjoy its destruction being the result of hubris. If it was just galen leaking information about the death star and the need to find the plans. Would certainly play into motti's statement in a new hope about stealing the plans being "a useless gesture, no matter what technical data they've uncovered." It's the quintessential EU problem of explaining things that need to explanation because they are self evident.
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Dec 21, 2016 20:06
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Arcsquad12 posted:I don't like Galen's master sabotage plan setting up the death star as an intentional failure. I enjoy its destruction being the result of hubris. If it was just galen leaking information about the death star and the need to find the plans. Would certainly play into motti's statement in a new hope about stealing the plans being "a useless gesture, no matter what technical data they've uncovered." It kind of undercuts it when there is a scene where Vader and the Moffs clearly recognize it as a threat and then kind of drop it in a new hope I mean had that not happened it would have been fine.
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Dec 22, 2016 00:23
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Arcsquad12 posted:I don't like Galen's master sabotage plan setting up the death star as an intentional failure. I enjoy its destruction being the result of hubris. If it was just galen leaking information about the death star and the need to find the plans. Would certainly play into motti's statement in a new hope about stealing the plans being "a useless gesture, no matter what technical data they've uncovered." It's also kind of funny because once the Rebels actually go after the Death Star it takes them like 20 seconds to figure out that there is a danger. It's when Tarkin goes "Evacuate?! In our moment of triumph?" Kind of retroactively makes him look way frigging dumber.
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Dec 22, 2016 00:35
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Casimir Radon posted:I'm sure the NJO was a big factor in chasing off a bunch of readers since it was the main driving force in Star Wars from 1999-2003 alongside the prequels. You could easily ignore a Crystal Star or Planet of Twilight back in the 90s but not so much when everything coming out turns out to be like that. It drove me out. The last EU book I read was either the first or second NJO book.
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Dec 22, 2016 03:41
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For some reason I never read the old, weird 70's-80's Marvel comics, are they worth reading? I've liked what I've seen of them. What's the best/ cheapest way to get a hold of them since Marvel reacquired the franchise?
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Dec 22, 2016 06:24
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