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I'm banishing so many things that I'm probably going to end up with a severe xp deficit. I can't really kill them otherwise though. e: Mummy evo aptitude is -2, but I have a fully upgraded rod of inaccuracy and no hunger costs. weeeee Fitzy Fitz fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 18:37
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Fitzy Fitz posted:I've been splatting mummy abyssal knights like crazy for the last hour. I'll prove them all wrong. I really wish you had been doing this as a chaos knight so I could make a joke about wading in the MuCK.
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Dec 22, 2016 20:45
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Araganzar posted:Let me change the subject by pointing out that even though PF hates ranged Crypt 3 clearly disapproves of my skill choices thus far and would REALLY like for me to give it a try: How did I never think of manuals getting "!d" ? Thanks. My current (0.19) OgWn has found Sniper, Damnation, Piercer, and some fancy triplecrossbows but I'm already using rods as my ranged attack.
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Dec 22, 2016 20:52
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Someday, before pleasing fungus removes ranged weapons, I will play a game where I switch between a triple crossbow and a triple sword. I hope a triple flail emerges to fill the triple weapon void when ranged reform happens. Alternatively, rename trident to triple spear
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Dec 22, 2016 21:02
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Honest question here that occurred to me during a run regarding the rMut removal: How come rPoison and rCorr exist? Isn't it the same logic that an entire mechanic of the game can be partially mitigated by simple wearing some gear? Correct me if I'm wrong but none of these things guarantee you're totally immune from the effect it just reduces the chance of it triggering, just like rMut did, so why do they persist whereas rMut doesn't? They're all situational tools that you use in certain situations and are necessary for sections of the game and certain branches, just like rMut was necessary for extended. Note: this is not to be construed as a request to eliminate protection from corrosion and poison in way, shape or form.
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Dec 22, 2016 21:17
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2 Yaktaur Captains on d8 wowza.
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Dec 22, 2016 21:21
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cheetah7071 posted:Someday, before pleasing fungus removes ranged weapons, I will play a game where I switch between a triple crossbow and a triple sword. I did exactly that on my FoFi win. It was exactly as awesome as you think.
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Dec 22, 2016 21:40
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FulsomFrank posted:Honest question here that occurred to me during a run regarding the rMut removal: Mutations are designed as something for your character to have to some degree and make the game more interesting as a result of the good or bad variations, so rMut takes away a feature in a way. The problem is out course that without rMut you just go to plan B which is to let your mutations exist until they're no longer harmless and then chug cure mutation, which ends up being the same except you're more likely to hold on to harmless mutations instead of outright resisting them. This also is much harder to sustain in extended but that's another story. Poison and corrosion are just different ways to receive damage and you weigh the cost of resisting vs wearing/using something else.
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Dec 22, 2016 21:58
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Sometimes you get shafted for multiple floors early enough in the game you don't have any escape options, adjacent to an ice beast with multiple other enemies a few squares away in a layout that doesn't even allow luring them to a hallway
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Dec 22, 2016 22:16
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cheetah7071 posted:Sometimes you get shafted for multiple floors early enough in the game you don't have any escape options, adjacent to an ice beast with multiple other enemies a few squares away in a layout that doesn't even allow luring them to a hallway One could conceive a game where such deaths (player dies without blame and fault) cannot happen. I claim such a game would be much worse. It's a fact that the margin for these events in Crawl is pretty low (even if you don't HOM around), and I'd say it's too low: I think the game depth would be higher if the game would try a bit harder, and be somewhat less forgiving. But that's probably a niche opinion.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:24
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Hey is there a formula or something to determine how much STR and DEX affect melee and ranged attacks? I have no idea how much it means to gain a point of STR or DEX and by extension to compare, say, a +2 ring of slaying against a +6 ring of STR.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:26
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I heard someone say "Triple Trident" and came running as fast as I could.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:29
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Games aren't fun just because they are hard; they have to be fair too. A game that is difficult just because its extremely cruel and unfair in its design is gonna be unappealing for a lot of people. I'm sure there's a niche for that kind of stuff but its definitely not a big one. Crawl is actually pretty drat fair unless you're playing a truly awful combo. Once you get past the first few floors, any death is almost always your fault. The game can be very difficult with the situations it creates but you usually have the tools to either deal with those situations or avoid them. Its really frustrating to die past the early game, but I vastly prefer losing a win streak to a mistake I know was my fault versus a D:1 adder. The former means there is room for me to improve my play and not have that happen again. The latter is just a middle finger with nothing to be learned from it.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:33
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E Equals MC Hammer posted:I heard someone say "Triple Trident" and came running as fast as I could. Isn't that just a rake?
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Dec 22, 2016 22:36
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dpeg posted:Yes, and then you die. This is part of the roguelike staple. I wanted to complain, I wasn't actually pushing for any change with that post
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Dec 22, 2016 22:43
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Internet Kraken posted:Games aren't fun just because they are hard; they have to be fair too. A game that is difficult just because its extremely cruel and unfair in its design is gonna be unappealing for a lot of people. I'm sure there's a niche for that kind of stuff but its definitely not a big one. My point is that some amount of unavoidable deaths can be actually healthy. Let's look at the extreme case: the game is designed so that every death comes from a player error. Because there's no human game master, but just source code, there has to be a lot of leeway in the player's favour. (I think this argument is spelled out in the philosophy section of the manual.) Now if the game is not as strict, and random situations can lead to death, than that can be (a) exciting and (b) gives players an opportunity to excel. To take a drastic example: if there were more shafts, and they could shaft you deeper, then that would lead to more deaths (including a portion of unavoidable deaths), but better players would get out of this more often. Whether to do this or not --in other words, would this be fun?-- is a subjective decision. A game could work either way, there is no objective, official definition of fun. Myself, I don't mind knowing in advance that the game probably won't be won, and I like dying to Oh poo poo moments or mastering them, so I have a penchant for a more risky Crawl. By the way, this point is mentioned in the Pas-de-FAQ, but there's no answer. As far as I see it, how far to go on the safety/risk scale is at the discretion of the/any current devteam. dpeg fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 22:50
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Shafts could probably stand to have their chance of immediate lethality reduced (perhaps by having them try to dump you into a location with no visible enemies? Or by removing them from D:1-3 or so?), but I definitely enjoy the gameplay that comes from 2-3 floors shafts that don't immediately kill me and wouldn't want them removed. 1 floor shafts tend to waste my time more than provide interesting gameplay though so I wouldn't mind them getting axed.
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Dec 22, 2016 23:04
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Mennas's silence is at least temporary, so you can get a tele scroll in when it wears off if that's seriously your only option. Silent spectres' perma-silence has only ever been a problem for me in zigs. How are you supposed to do zigs now, anyway?
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Dec 23, 2016 00:11
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LogicNinja posted:How are you supposed to do zigs now, anyway? I assume a tele ring?
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Dec 23, 2016 00:31
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LogicNinja posted:How are you supposed to do zigs now, anyway?
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Dec 23, 2016 00:34
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Use tornado then move into range.
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Dec 23, 2016 00:35
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Mr. Lobe posted:Hey is there a formula or something to determine how much STR and DEX affect melee and ranged attacks? I have no idea how much it means to gain a point of STR or DEX and by extension to compare, say, a +2 ring of slaying against a +6 ring of STR. I don't know the formula, but generally value str at around half of slaying. Str/Dex affect damage/accuracy respectively, and in addition you might like a large ring of Str for raising your EV / Spell chances in armour. I'd basically always use a +6 Str over +2 slay.
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Dec 23, 2016 00:41
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Fitzy Fitz posted:I assume a tele ring? Don't those just teleport you adjacent to enemies now?
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Dec 23, 2016 00:56
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Isn't tele fairly marginal in zigs? I assume the bigger concern is that you can no longer haste every floor.
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Dec 23, 2016 01:06
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FulsomFrank posted:How come rPoison and rCorr exist? Isn't it the same logic that an entire mechanic of the game can be partially mitigated by simple wearing some gear? Correct me if I'm wrong but none of these things guarantee you're totally immune from the effect it just reduces the chance of it triggering, just like rMut did, so why do they persist whereas rMut doesn't? rCorr and rPois give 50% resistance to their respective effects; rMut reduced mutation chance by 90%. Note that rCorr and rPois both used to grant stronger resistances (67% and 67/90%, respectively), but were reduced so that they didn't completely neuter corrosive/poisonous threats, only weakened them. rMut was considered to be already a very marginal effect in 3-rune games (and to some extent even in extended); reducing it to 50% would make it pretty useless as a swap item. FulsomFrank posted:They're all... necessary for sections of the game and certain branches, just like rMut was necessary for extended. No. please note that i wasn't a fan of rMut removal, but that was mainly because i liked the way having it or not would shape your preferred branch order for extended, in the same way that having or lacking rPois affects your decision for which lair branch to enter first. ruined!
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Dec 23, 2016 01:55
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Mr. Lobe posted:Hey is there a formula or something to determine how much STR and DEX affect melee and ranged attacks? I have no idea how much it means to gain a point of STR or DEX and by extension to compare, say, a +2 ring of slaying against a +6 ring of STR. every point of str above 10 increases your base weapon/unarmed damage by 2.56%, which is multiplied by skills and added to by slaying. at 20 str, you do 26% more base damage than at str 10. each point of str below 10 reduces your base damage by 3.8%. each point of dex increases your base to-hit by 3.3%, but accuracy is... mysterious. in general, crawl doesn't want you thinking too hard about damage numbers, and isn't designed for them to be easy to reason about. for better or worse.
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Dec 23, 2016 02:03
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Speaking of rCorr, I personally would prefer if it halved the effect of corrosion (to -2) rather than giving a 50% chance to negate it.
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Dec 23, 2016 02:07
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Mr. Lobe posted:Hey is there a formula or something to determine how much STR and DEX affect melee and ranged attacks? I have no idea how much it means to gain a point of STR or DEX and by extension to compare, say, a +2 ring of slaying against a +6 ring of STR. FulsomFrank posted:They're all situational tools that you use in certain situations and are necessary for sections of the game and certain branches, LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 02:51
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I really have no idea what "crawl is too easy" players are thinking. It sure doesn't seem easy to me. Maybe that's because I'm bad, but, y'know, so are most crawl players. Is a game only hard enough if the best players can't consistently win?
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Dec 23, 2016 02:56
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The change that gave entropy weavers sInv purely because of flavour reasons did far more to make zigs unviable for melee characters than teleport wands ever will for casters. I actually tried a mid-extended zig dive as a melee character after that change and it was hell, spider floors are pretty common and they shot up to tomb/hell floor difficulty. If you get multiple weavers on you you're just screwed, so you need to fog liberally and try to pull the floor bit by bit.
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Dec 23, 2016 03:03
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http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/zarick13/morgue-zarick13-20161222-043205.txt God drat. I don't think I've ever died on the orb run before. Look at this poo poo: code:
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Dec 23, 2016 05:37
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Zarick posted:I almost certainly could have prevented it, but I wasn't expecting Lom Lobon to both appear and cast glaciate four turns in a row. Ouch, yeah, Lom is a mess. I had him show up on Zot:5 once, but Imprison worked nicely.
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Dec 23, 2016 05:44
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Finally have a good amount of gold so its time to check out that Bazaar I found on D:11! Hopefully it will have some cool-quote:The portal is a mimic! god dammit
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Dec 23, 2016 08:25
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PleasingFungus posted:every point of str above 10 increases your base weapon/unarmed damage by 2.56%, which is multiplied by skills and added to by slaying. at 20 str, you do 26% more base damage than at str 10. each point of str below 10 reduces your base damage by 3.8%. It's time to delete the attributes and instead have players variously choose or gain, at level up, direct bonuses to Slaying, EV, AC, Wizardry, etc. Of course, you should bring back Singularity first.
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Dec 23, 2016 08:42
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Int gives spellcasting and spellpower, dex gives ev and accuracy and stealth, strength gives damage and spellcasting and ev and accuracy. Clearly stats are a false choice.
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Dec 23, 2016 09:13
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Floorgod has been amazingly kind to the Vine Stalker Assassin I'm running right now, but CAO seems to be having server troubles. Edit: code:Tarezax fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 10:40
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Are any other races being considered for removal?
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Dec 23, 2016 12:27
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Carcer posted:Are any other races being considered for removal? Everybody's favorite is going to be axed in the next commit. Fortunately, we can all still play Halflings.
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Dec 23, 2016 12:32
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I assume all enemies will be replaced with caustic shrikes, and the dungeon will be shortened to 1 floor?
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Dec 23, 2016 12:38
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cheetah7071 posted:Everybody's favorite is going to be axed in the next commit. Fortunately, we can all still play Halflings. I love halflings. Or loved, past tense. I see utterly no point to the race since they murdered their hybrid stats. This, combined with the HE removal, makes me wonder wtf they are trying to do here.
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Dec 23, 2016 13:41
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