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Mel Mudkiper posted:your daily reminder that genre is a distinction of marketing not of content Fantasy is like pornography: I know it when I see it.
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Dec 23, 2016 18:22
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my vague understanding is that modern ultra-derivative 'epic fantasy' got going in the late 70s with really deliberate tolkien knockoffs like shannara that appealed to a mass market that wanted familiarity more than strangeness. there was a profusion and that combined with everyone playing d&d produced the stultifying cliches western 'fantasy' still labours under.Mel Mudkiper posted:your daily reminder that genre is a distinction of marketing not of content this is true but it's also the case that sam q. reader will, on seeking out more books in a genre that's marketed to him, confuse it for a self-subsisting thing and think that's how writing should be done when he starts writing books himself. the marketing produces the content.
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Dec 23, 2016 18:29
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at the date posted:Fantasy is like pornography: I know it when I see it. Adult fantasy: pornography. Children's fantasy: fantasy.
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Dec 23, 2016 18:40
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so there was a list of famous authors saying what the best book ever is guess what David Foster Wallace said
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Dec 23, 2016 18:44
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Mel Mudkiper posted:so there was a list of famous authors saying what the best book ever is Carrie by Stephen King?
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Dec 23, 2016 18:48
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The Old Man and the Sea.
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Dec 23, 2016 18:49
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Mel Mudkiper posted:so there was a list of famous authors saying what the best book ever is according to Google, The Screwtape Letters
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Dec 23, 2016 18:50
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fridge corn posted:I finished reading The Sellout. It was pretty funny but I'm not sure it was meant to be 🤔 What do you think it was meant to be?
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Dec 23, 2016 19:44
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at the date posted:according to Google, The Screwtape Letters loving nerds and their fantasy poo poo
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Dec 23, 2016 20:30
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Cloks posted:What do you think it was meant to be? Well Beatty is a very humourous writer and the book is very funny but it's not a comedy obviously, nor is it satire.
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Dec 23, 2016 21:25
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fridge corn posted:Well Beatty is a very humourous writer and the book is very funny but it's not a comedy obviously, nor is it satire. I interpreted it as a satirical look at the way non-black communities force their view of improvements onto black communities.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:02
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at the date posted:according to Google, The Screwtape Letters
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Dec 23, 2016 23:42
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Mel Mudkiper posted:your daily reminder that genre is a distinction of marketing not of content what about genres that predate the existence of marketing
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Dec 24, 2016 00:00
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A human heart posted:what about genres that predate the existence of marketing Nope
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Dec 24, 2016 00:07
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at the date posted:according to Google, The Screwtape Letters Cheater
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Dec 24, 2016 00:07
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Michiko Kakutani writes: "David Foster Wallace's Top Ten List: 1. The Screwtape Letters - C.S. Lewis 2. The Stand - Stephen King 3. Red Dragon - Thomas Harris 4. The Thin Red Line - James Jones 5. Fear of Flying - Erica Jong 6. The Silence of the Lambs - Thomas Harris 7. Stranger in a Strange Land - Robert A. Heinlein 8. Fuzz - Ed McBain 9. Alligator - Shelley Katz 10. The Sum of All Fears - Tom Clancy Inquiring minds want to know: Is he serious? Beats me. To be honest, I don't know what Wallace was thinking — he doesn't phone, he doesn't write ... . But I do think there's a certain integrity to his list." That's some list he has there. Now was he being postmodern or newly sincere?
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Dec 24, 2016 00:46
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I mean, he taught Carrie and Jackie Collins in his college course, so it could be sincere.
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Dec 24, 2016 02:37
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lovely author likes lovely books, shocker
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Dec 24, 2016 04:52
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David Foster Wallace's consistent gimmick was pushing self-deprecation to an irritating level, like wondering aloud what it must be like to be one of those geniuses you hear about and insisting he was just a regular Joe, as if he avoided a career in furniture sales only by the constant patronizing indulgence of the reading public. In retrospect, obviously, he may have been sincerely convinced he was a moron, given his evident depressive tendency. In any case, that reading list fits the pattern.
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Dec 24, 2016 07:18
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at the date posted:In retrospect, obviously, he may have been sincerely convinced he was a moron, given his evident depressive tendency. his depressive tendency was right on the money
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Dec 24, 2016 08:25
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A human heart posted:what about genres that predate the existence of marketing Not sure there was ever a time like that tbh. So long as there have been writers there have been categories. For example the first genre was the legend of King Arther. That was started by Geoffrey of Monmouth in thr 12th-century with the Historia Regum Britanniae (History of the Kings of Britain). What would happen is educated young men would hand write their own Arther story in a factual style, give it to a friend who would add a chapter and pass it on. At some point the Grail legend was introduced and that splintered off. Humans like putting things in little boxes is what I'm saying.
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Dec 24, 2016 10:32
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Cloks posted:I interpreted it as a satirical look at the way non-black communities force their view of improvements onto black communities. Im not really sure it's satire, he's pretty blunt about what he's saying
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Dec 24, 2016 10:54
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Jerome Agricola posted:Michiko Kakutani writes: Coincidentally none of these people nor David Foster Wallace are in my top ten.
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Dec 24, 2016 16:53
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learnincurve posted:For example the first genre was the legend of King Arther. That was started by Geoffrey of Monmouth in thr 12th-century with the Historia Regum Britanniae (History of the Kings of Britain). What would happen is educated young men would hand write their own Arther story in a factual style, give it to a friend who would add a chapter and pass it on. At some point the Grail legend was introduced and that splintered off. Nah learnincurve posted:Humans like putting things in little boxes is what I'm saying. Yeah, but I would say it's not just marketing that creates genre (whatever expectations you have of a text before you read it), but like the system man, because high-brow and low-brow weren't quite such hard and fast distinctions before capitalism.
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Dec 24, 2016 16:55
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Except for they were to some extent, only High and low were seperated by the sexes. There was a time when it was unthinkable for a man to publicly read a novel, let alone a romance novel for that was for the wimmins don't ya know, what are you some sort of degenerate ol' bean?
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Dec 24, 2016 17:13
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learnincurve posted:Historia Regum Britanniae (History of the Kings of Britain) ty for this translation
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Dec 24, 2016 17:27
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Wallace writes like a guy who is terrified that Thomas Pynchon exists so it makes sense that he doesn't rate him
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Dec 24, 2016 17:29
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CestMoi posted:Wallace writes like a guy who is terrified that Thomas Pynchon exists so it makes sense that he doesn't rate him he doesn't, so that must have been a relief
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Dec 24, 2016 18:38
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Both Wallace and Pynchon are among my absolute favorite writers, so I'm too scared to post anything about them anymore.
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Dec 24, 2016 21:38
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learnincurve posted:For example the first genre was the legend of King Arther. Arthur. No it wasn't. quote:That was started by Geoffrey of Monmouth in thr 12th-century with the Historia Regum Britanniae No it wasn't. quote:What would happen is educated young men would hand write their own Arther story in a factual style, give it to a friend who would add a chapter and pass it on. This did not happen. Where did you get this idea? quote:At some point the Grail legend was introduced and that splintered off. Please stop I'm impressed both by the fact that every individual sentence in this post is wrong and the fact that you wrote a 'history' of genre without even glancing at Greek comedy and tragedy e: or satire, pastoral, oratory, elegy, lyric, epic... Calling Arthuriana a 'genre' is like calling the Ulster Cycle or Tristan and Isolde a 'genre' in that it's wrong and unhelpful to the point of meaninglessness chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Dec 24, 2016 |
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Dec 24, 2016 22:57
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It's a wrong post and also has nothing to do with marketing
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Dec 24, 2016 23:22
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what do you expect from a guy with a potato for an av
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Dec 24, 2016 23:52
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I should have said the first genre written in English as I was responding to the person who said genre was a modern capitalist invention. but that's by the by. I was told that many many moons ago at school as part of a lesson on the first books written in English and not Latin and it was the explanation given to us as to how the grail legends were spread. I'd like to hear your alternative explanation because it makes a great deal of sense, I was under the impression that it was a verifiable fact that no one had heard of Arthur until the historia.
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Dec 24, 2016 23:59
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learnincurve posted:I should have said the first genre written in English as I was responding to the person who said genre was a modern capitalist invention. Who said that
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Dec 25, 2016 00:05
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Jerome Agricola posted:Michiko Kakutani writes: Reminds me of Bob Dylan claiming his favorite songwriter was Jimmy Buffet.
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Dec 25, 2016 00:20
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learnincurve posted:I should have said the first genre written in English as I was responding to the person who said genre was a modern capitalist invention. the book is titled the Historia regum Brittanniae. It is written in Latin, not English. regardless, english literature had existed for at least 500 years before the HRB and already consisted of multiple genres (e.g. elegy and epic). quote:I was under the impression that it was a verifiable fact that no one had heard of Arthur until the historia. It is wrong. Arthur first appears in the 7th century Gododdin and had a thriving tradition (mostly in Welsh but almost certainly in Breton and probably in English) for centuries before Geoffrey ever sat down to write. The Modena Archivolt, the Latin Vita of St. Gildas (among others), the Latin writings of Nennius, the Welsh narrative poems Pa Gur, the Dialogue of Arthur and the Eagle and Preiddeu Annwn (just to name a few), the prose Culhwch ac Olwen, and many of the Welsh Triads all predate Geoffrey, who was probably drawing on contemporary tales and folklore to construct his narrative. the Grail tradition almost certainly springs out of older Celtic mythology (see the Preiddeu Annwn) rather than being an invention of Chretien de Troyes. chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Dec 25, 2016 |
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Dec 25, 2016 00:29
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You learn something new every day, or in my case I frequently find out that my generation was fed a load of old cobblers by our teachers using out of date textbooks. Went to school in the time before the internet so we had no actual way of verifying if what they were saying was true short of going up to a academic and asking them  Merry Christmas everyone, may everyone give you the books you wanted or the money to buy them
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Dec 25, 2016 00:42
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Jerome Agricola posted:Both Wallace and Pynchon are among my absolute favorite writers, so I'm too scared to post anything about them anymore. though really I'm interested in whether there's anything really worth discussing/analysing about the Sorrows of Young Werther or whether it's just respected because of Faust? I liked it but it's just a funny short story about an incel meeting an HB10 who knows a Chad, getting horny + nude and killing himself
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Dec 25, 2016 02:35
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Pynchon is good, post about him It's mainly notable for tricking a whole bunch of people into killing themselves.
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Dec 25, 2016 02:43
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Pynchon is good, post about him please don't talk about goethe using ironic pua terminology or i'm going to go active shooter learnincurve posted:Went to school in the time before the internet so we had no actual way of verifying if what they were saying was true short of going up to a academic and asking them i think books, and places to get books, may have existed at that time
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Dec 25, 2016 02:59
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