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Just beautiful. Is that rust on the Leo?
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Dec 23, 2016 07:53
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Good job nothing happened to the turkish army recently that could possibly have affected its morale or performance eh
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Dec 23, 2016 10:24
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Jesus Christ someone's angrier about your spaghetti recipe than I was about the election.
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Dec 23, 2016 11:08
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FastestGunAlive posted:The oaths for officer and enlisted are different but the expectation is the same- if you obey an illegal order you will be held accountable. Where does knowledge come into play? Does it matter if it can be reasonably demonstrated that the obeyer didn't know the order was illegal? Are there any recent cases of soldiers getting acquitted because the order was found to be illegal?
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Dec 23, 2016 12:16
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MANime in the sheets posted:Where does knowledge come into play? Does it matter if it can be reasonably demonstrated that the obeyer didn't know the order was illegal? Good question; I don't really know. Military justice isn't my thing. Maybe someone else can chime in. There are constant ROE briefs given when you deploy so I feel like it would be obvious but then again, fog of war and all that. And although it's well instructed, it's not the easiest thing to tell a superior no or to report them, depending on the circumstances All I can think of is "peacetime" law breaking like buying and selling military property, in which I've seen both buyer and seller punished. Fraternization is another one.
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Dec 23, 2016 13:25
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The best example is Mai Lai. A junior officer got jail time and a few dudes who stood down American soldiers at gun point were fine.
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Dec 23, 2016 15:55
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Oh, Turkey. Maybe this kind of thing wouldn't happen if you didn't purge half your military for the benefit of Erdogan's little Reichstag Fire.
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Dec 23, 2016 16:28
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How does a force like isil maintain any sort of armored presence? Don't MBTs require a crap ton of specialized maintenance and resources or they kinda just fall apart?
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Dec 23, 2016 16:38
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They probably capture a bunch of in-shape equipment from the forces supplied by the major powers. It only needs to be better than what the enemy has so it doesn't necessarily matter if it works optimally, plus stuff like T72s are going to be more mechanical and less fancy electronical than modern MBTs.
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Dec 23, 2016 16:45
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KildarX posted:How does a force like isil maintain any sort of armored presence? Don't MBTs require a crap ton of specialized maintenance and resources or they kinda just fall apart? think of them as motorized guns and not MBTs. its a big, hard to destroy emplaced gun that can be moved somewhat easily. they do not use them in attacks much.
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Dec 23, 2016 16:45
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Also you can evidently weld a remarkably large amount of steel plate onto a toyota hilux before it craps out.
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Dec 23, 2016 16:46
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You basically got it for free, you're not doing armored maneuuvers with it and you don't care about its longevity. Wonder how they learn to use them.
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Dec 23, 2016 16:48
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Don't underestimate their knowledge and experience either. They may very well have former tank crew and tank mechanics (or general mechanics) in their ranks. They may not be able to get years of use out of these things but some use is better than none
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Dec 23, 2016 16:50
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You mean russian tanks don't just have a big red button in the cockpit with CYKA BLYAT written on it that fires the gun? Videogames have lied to me. E: Sorry two buttons, CYKA makes the tank go, BLYAT makes it shoot.
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Dec 23, 2016 16:50
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OwlFancier posted:Also you can evidently weld a remarkably large amount of steel plate onto a toyota hilux before it craps out. Only takes one Abu Hajaar though.
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Dec 23, 2016 16:52
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I do like those weird kangaroo toyotas you see sometimes. I kind of want to do a deadliest warrior where ISIS improvised armour goes up against actual WW2 stuff.
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Dec 23, 2016 16:54
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OwlFancier posted:I do like those weird kangaroo toyotas you see sometimes. I kind of want to do a deadliest warrior where ISIS improvised armour goes up against actual WW2 stuff. ISIS vs the Afrika Corps
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Dec 23, 2016 17:20
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I've seen some pretty amazing small drone videos lately. How do western forces plan to deal with them the cheapest way?
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Dec 23, 2016 17:25
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JcDent posted:You basically got it for free, you're not doing armored maneuuvers with it and you don't care about its longevity. The blog posts I've seen analyzing the vehicle use by ISIS have indicated that they have a fuckton of vehicles, from cars to tanks, so they feel like they can waste them on otherwise worthless attacks. They regularly make "attacks" that consist of only one to five vehicles charging an enemy position, which are often decimated to no gain. The infamous Abu Hajaar video was one of these, consisting of a handful of armored improvised fighting vehicles straight out of Mad Max that all got blown up or disabled before ever reaching the enemy and likely didn't cause a single casualty. ISIS tactics are incredibly wasteful, which is why the "caliphate" would likely fall apart if another Operation Iraqi Freedom happened. But nobody wants to repeat 2003-2011 except maybe Trump. JaucheCharly posted:I've seen some pretty amazing small drone videos lately. How do western forces plan to deal with them the cheapest way? There's a lot of debate and differing ideas. Nobody was really prepared for the drone revolution, as for the longest time drones were huge unmanned airplanes or expensive small devices only carried by soldiers. The sudden advent of small, inexpensive drones on the commercial market with HD cameras that can become scouting tools right out of the box was a bit of a surprise over the last few years. And many of them are so small that typical SAMs can't even lock onto them. Different ideas include wide area jamming, various ballistic means like anti-air guns and shotguns, and directed interference tools that look like rifles and use highly directed radio jamming waves to effectively disable exactly which drone is being aimed at. Apparently at least one anti-drone jamming rifle has been deployed to Iraq.
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Dec 23, 2016 17:43
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Jesus Christ someone's angrier about your spaghetti recipe than I was about the election. 
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Dec 23, 2016 17:45
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Cyrano4747 posted:The best example is Mai Lai. A junior officer got jail time and a few dudes who stood down American soldiers at gun point were fine. Lt. Calley had his sentence reduced to a few years of house arrest on appeal. If you loved "The Things They Carried", check out "In the Lake of the Woods" also by O'Brien. It's a fantastic novel and covers an officer dealing with PTSD and the revelations about his involvement in an atrocity.
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Dec 23, 2016 17:49
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In the Lake of the Woods will be forever ruined for me because I was forced to read it in high school. I want to like it, but even seeing its name dredges up memories of the bad old days in 11th grade English Lit class.
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Dec 23, 2016 18:03
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See also, the Haditha massacre. Everyone was charged, even if they were just "following orders" and then it was all dropped except for the senior man and then his case too was dropped.
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Dec 23, 2016 18:10
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chitoryu12 posted:There's a lot of debate and differing ideas. Nobody was really prepared for the drone revolution, as for the longest time drones were huge unmanned airplanes or expensive small devices only carried by soldiers. The sudden advent of small, inexpensive drones on the commercial market with HD cameras that can become scouting tools right out of the box was a bit of a surprise over the last few years. And many of them are so small that typical SAMs can't even lock onto them. I look forward to the return of AA tripods.
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Dec 23, 2016 18:12
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Mycroft Holmes posted:ISIS vs the Afrika Corps Rat Patrol: The Next Generation
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Dec 23, 2016 18:42
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OwlFancier posted:I look forward to the return of AA tripods. But they never went out of fashion? By the time ground attack aircraft became too fast for AAMG's, helicopters entered the scene and they were also seen potent against APC/IFV's. And yes, you can hit a drone with one although it's far from easy and if the drone can zigzag and still keep its camera steady (can they?) then it may become a waste of ammo. But some IFV autocannons can fire smart munitions that detonate at set distance or near a target like VT fuse, if the drone is big enough to trigger the radar fuse then I think that should be the most effective solution. Btw. while discussing future warfare I recently read about this Australian research team that has developed a nano filter that changes invisible spectrums of light into visible light without any power source, unlike the former bulky, expensive and power hungry night vision systems. It's still years from being utilized, but it would be quite a game changer if it really works and doesn't cost much more than polarizing sun glasses. http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sc...207-gt5vsf.html
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Dec 23, 2016 18:54
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Nenonen posted:Btw. while discussing future warfare I recently read about this Australian research team that has developed a nano filter that changes invisible spectrums of light into visible light without any power source, unlike the former bulky, expensive and power hungry night vision systems. It's still years from being utilized, but it would be quite a game changer if it really works and doesn't cost much more than polarizing sun glasses. That sounds like it would be incredibly cool to use in interactive theatre or something if it became cheap enough.
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Dec 23, 2016 18:55
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I mean sort of specifically the habit of making a massive person-sized AA tripod for something like an MG42 which you probably wouldn't get today, I don't think that say, the M240 has one. I want to see a SAW gunner having his mate with a massive tripod strapped onto him in case they come up against a quadcopter. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 18:56
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OwlFancier posted:I mean sort of specifically the habit of making a massive person-sized AA tripod for something like an MG42 which you probably wouldn't get today, I don't think that say, the M240 has one. For drones, you'd probably want to take the bird hunting theory and fire a cloud of shot instead of just using rate of fire on a machine gun. I'm thinking along with proximity-detonating flak shells, you could do automatic shotguns. For comedy option, 5.56mm shotshells for an M249. Or 25mm autocannons with canister! 
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Dec 23, 2016 19:00
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Ah so you're suggesting the return of the punt gun in a military application, weld a drainpipe to the front of a hummvee and fill it with shrapnel, get out and push the car silently up to a suspected insurgent position, then fire the gun and take out an entire squadron of quadcopters in one shot.
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Dec 23, 2016 19:02
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OwlFancier posted:I mean sort of specifically the habit of making a massive person-sized AA tripod for something like an MG42 which you probably wouldn't get today, I don't think that say, the M240 has one. Oh yah, there was one even for Bren. A magazine fed LMG doesn't make the fiercest AA platform but I suppose if don't mind interrupting every few seconds to change magazine... 
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Dec 23, 2016 19:03
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Nenonen posted:Oh yah, there was one even for Bren. A magazine fed LMG doesn't make the fiercest AA platform but I suppose if don't mind interrupting every few seconds to change magazine... They actually made 100-round drums for the Bren specifically for anti-air! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMKn3BBaC_U
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Dec 23, 2016 19:06
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Aside from drum magazines of the time being agonizingly difficult to reload if I remember right, why on earth didn't they issue them for normal use? The bren has a quick swap barrel and everything, it seems designed for a much higher capacity than it used.
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Dec 23, 2016 19:09
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chitoryu12 posted:That sounds like it would be incredibly cool to use in interactive theatre or something if it became cheap enough. I'd expect it's similar to something that's getting use for color blind people to let them see more colors by moving wavelengths.
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Dec 23, 2016 19:15
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OwlFancier posted:Aside from drum magazines of the time being agonizingly difficult to reload if I remember right, why on earth didn't they issue them for normal use? If you watch the video you'll notice that it also necessitates changed optics. The original magazine is so high that it had to be offset to the left side of the barrel. But the drum magazine is so wide that it would get in the way of that. So I would guess they didn't want to go through the trouble of replacing them all in the midst of a war, plus other reasons like having to use a loading tool and a fully loaded weapon would then be quite a bit heavier and less mobile.
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Dec 23, 2016 19:21
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I considered the optics but given the bren's original design apparently only realising the optics might be needed at the last minute I wondered if that would be a concern  But if the drum wasn't invented until later in the war I guess that makes sense, thought it was contemporary with the gun.
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Dec 23, 2016 19:28
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OwlFancier posted:Aside from drum magazines of the time being agonizingly difficult to reload if I remember right, why on earth didn't they issue them for normal use? Probably wasn't reliable enough, plus it's easier to haul/swap out 30-round mags on the fly - if something *does* gently caress up with Can'o'Whoopass, you may or may not have a big box of mags as a backup. Oh hey, just too late for Christmas-truce delivery... Forgotten Weapons on the drum mag
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Dec 23, 2016 19:28
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xthetenth posted:I'd expect it's similar to something that's getting use for color blind people to let them see more colors by moving wavelengths. As far as I know those things just hypersaturate the image. You can't get me to see more colours because I literally don't have the third receptor in my eye.
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Dec 23, 2016 19:29
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OwlFancier posted:Aside from drum magazines of the time being agonizingly difficult to reload if I remember right, why on earth didn't they issue them for normal use? Drum fed weapons jam more often, especially if the drum is fully loaded.
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Dec 23, 2016 19:31
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OwlFancier posted:I literally don't have the third receptor in my eye. Well at least you've got an excuse for having terrible taste in wallpaper, then.
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Dec 23, 2016 20:02
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